Appropriate penalties for non Winona's using telebrella and telepad.

[Dr. Safety]

57 minutes ago, grm9 said:

???

this still doesn't remove the fact that early game is a thing, you can get them on day 2 or idk if you really want to but that just isn't worth the time and getting catapults or other stuff that way won't be an actual benefit

epic misinformation time, it drops with a guarantee from next meteor shower if you got crabby hermit to level 10 or made an altar on lunar and got her to level 7 or above that, you also still can just make the portal stuff on an altar

Okay, so you can swap characters earlier than I mentioned. That doesn't help your point. Sorry for my incorrect use of the word "entirely" I guess?

59 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i don't care about that and am not talking about that, i'm just saying that swap characters aren't a thing and pretending that they are is pretty dumb, there's no benefit from swapping to another character unless, again, you're in late game and just bored/really want to kill a boss by just holding F by stacking damage multipliers or some thing 

What exactly do you consider late game? You could start as Winona with the intentions of swapping to whoever you want to actually play, get the resources to swap by first winter (or earlier as mentioned by you above). That gives you plenty of time to get a decent Winona setup going and a teleporter or two, and all in what I would consider to be early game. I don't rush bosses so maybe we have different views on early/late game.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

not really, they weren't worthwhile even before planar, it isn't related to that, so this entirely and fully applies, it's just that their perks are worse than other characters' perks, so there's no reason to swap to them specifically, also again, the point was why do people not complain about characters just being useless even though they complain about characters being used to give benefits to others

So then argue for buffing them? I don't understand the point of comparing characters falling off, especially if you are disregarding the obvious fix for this (skill trees). Making another character useless to play in "late game" won't solve those characters kit currently being outdated and power crept.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

how is this related to what i said in any way? the point was that there's no reason to swap to wendy, not that i want her to deal double damage

You're point was Wendy falls off, so she should be able to utilize the upsides of characters who don't fall off (even though a skill tree could fix her falling off)

[grm9]

12 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

Okay, so you can swap characters earlier than I mentioned. That doesn't help your point. Sorry for my incorrect use of the word "entirely" I guess?

What exactly do you consider late game? You could start as Winona with the intentions of swapping to whoever you want to actually play, get the resources to swap by first winter (or earlier as mentioned by you above). That gives you plenty of time to get a decent Winona setup going and a teleporter or two, and all in what I would consider to be early game. I don't rush bosses so maybe we have different views on early/late game.

So then argue for buffing them? I don't understand the point of comparing characters falling off, especially if you are disregarding the obvious fix for this (skill trees). Making another character useless to play in "late game" won't solve those characters kit currently being outdated and power crept.

You're point was Wendy falls off, so she should be able to utilize the upsides of characters who don't fall off (even though a skill tree could fix her falling off)

there's no benefit from swapping early though so that can get ignored

the point was that it's weird that people complain about others playing as some characters for little time because of swapping but not literally almost no one playing as them at all because of them being worthless by the time you get celestial portal, so usually after you reach late game and start mega basing because there's no benefit from it early   

[Dr. Safety]

54 minutes ago, grm9 said:

there's no benefit from swapping early though so that can get ignored

the point was that it's weird that people complain about others playing as some characters for little time because of swapping but not literally almost no one playing as them at all because of them being worthless by the time you get celestial portal, so usually after you reach late game and start mega basing because there's no benefit from it early   

Having the upsides of 2 characters at the same time is a benefit. You literally established that you can swap super early if you rush it. I don't understand why you keep saying that we can just ignore it.

People complain about those characters being weak late game all the time. That's probably half of the threads in general discussion. Giving them Winona's upsides will only make Winona more useless to play as when the other characters get updated.

[grm9]

50 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Having the upsides of 2 characters at the same time is a benefit. You literally established that you can swap super early if you rush it. I don't understand why you keep saying that we can just ignore it

because it isn't beneficial, you waste more time on getting the portal and setting catapults up near every boss than you do on just killing them with out portal or catapults, as an example 

50 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

People complain about those characters being weak late game all the time. That's probably half of the threads in general discussion

could you send at least 3 excluding walter?

50 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

 Giving them Winona's upsides will only make Winona more useless to play as when the other characters get updated

just play as winona any way if that's more fun for you? is something forcing you to play as efficiently as possible even though you don't like doing that or like doing that less than some other way to play and if yes, what?

[Dr. Safety]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

because it isn't beneficial, you waste more time on getting the portal and setting catapults up near every boss than you do on just killing them with out portal or catapults, as an example 

Catapults are already for everyone. This thread isn't about catapults

 

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

could you send at least 3 excluding walter?

Why exclude Walter? He was on your list. 

I will send them, but I'm on mobile right now so going back and forth is annoying. You could save me the time and look for yourself at all of the things people are asking for in their skill trees, but I'll gladly still send them all tonight

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

just play as winona any way if that's more fun for you? is something forcing you to play as efficiently as possible even though you don't like doing that or like doing that less than some other way to play and if yes, what?

This takes me back to my comparison of letting Wendy lift Wolfgang dumbbells. Why can't she? If you want to give all the best of Winona's kit to every character, then why not other characters? I never see threads asking for everyone to use the codex umbra. I never see anyone wanting to use Abigail without playing as Wendy. You guys already have Winona's catapults. Ask for something from someone else now. Give us gym-bro Wickerbottom getting shredded and dealing double damage. 

[MarkStein]

I think that telebrella should stay as it is. 
But i think that what really needed is Morning Star recharging by Winona's Generators.

[grm9]

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

Catapults are already for everyone. This thread isn't about catapults

if everyone'll get the teleport umbrella thing ig making the portal, swapping on it, making the goggles, getting multiple cache things with them, getting 2 scanner things, getting teleport umbrella thing to scan, getting teleport pad thing to scan, making them, placing the pad near base, placing a generator near base, getting nitre for it and going back to the portal for swapping back with the umbrella might end up being slightly potentially worthwhile in some long runs, but that's it

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

Why exclude Walter? He was on your list

because most people seem to think that he sucks during early game too and make threads because of that, not just because he's bad during late game

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

This takes me back to my comparison of letting Wendy lift Wolfgang dumbbells. Why can't she? If you want to give all the best of Winona's kit to every character, then why not other characters? I never see threads asking for everyone to use the codex umbra. I never see anyone wanting to use Abigail without playing as Wendy. You guys already have Winona's catapults. Ask for something from someone else now. Give us gym-bro Wickerbottom getting shredded and dealing double damage

reminder about me not wanting this nor caring about getting it, i just think that considering the ability to swap characters for getting some character's perk with out playing as them the entire time as an issue's odd because "fixing" that "issue" would only ruin fun of some people and not affect the fun of all other people, ig klei aren't doing the stuff that you mentioned because 1. a lot of extra work for stuff that few people'd use because of considering it as too good (mighty versions of all characters with all skins, quotes etc.) 2. some people either pretending to be or literally being unable to prevent themselves from ruining own fun because of playing in a way that they don't like because it's efficient 3. "immersion"

[Zima Blue]

5 hours ago, MarkStein said:

I think that telebrella should stay as it is. 
But i think that what really needed is Morning Star recharging by Winona's Generators.

Yes! Morning stars are kinda of a niche weapon because Volt Goat horns drops are kinda annoying, so this would help a lot