gosh new winona is fun

[Copyafriend]

previously, winona was someone i always wanted to like, but never could. i enjoy engineer characters, and the catapults are well balanced between cost and effectiveness. but being stationary meant she was only really effective at second and third kills, the first time she fights a boss she ended up requiring more prep time than wurt. and while her prep time was worthwhile. she just ended up feeling tedious to me at least.

 

(to preface this, i've been playing lights out with her, so her spotlights utility is perfect for me, and will be gushed about)

 

New winona feels like an entirely different character. for starters, item mobility.

i can bring a catapult, spotlight, and generator with me anywhere, meaning that at any time at any place, with some prep, i can be well placed to kill medium to large amounts of enemies without having to mess around with lanterns on the ground providing iffy lighting, or orbs of light overheating/freezing me mid fight.

i DO have to still prep, meaning setting everything up BEFORE stuff starts chasing me, but once set up its just so convenient. it just FEELS like i'm making intelligent use of my resources to prep for fights. it doesnt feel overpowered, it feels like a very justifiable amount of power for the work i'm putting in, i can put in more work to bring more power (sacrificing inventory space or making multiple trips) but i never feel weak or overpowered.

 

additionally, i can bring catapults to fights i wouldnt normally bother with, antlion? three catapults just because i dont like her. i could've brought more, but it was enough to make the fight shorter without having to excessively prep an arena.

 

secondly: efficiency.

the biggest boon from this skill tree is very much being able to power generators with nightmare fuel. it's just so much more convenient for higher skill players like myself to maintain a lower sanity and passively farm nightmare fuel. nitre is still available for newer players, but having a stack of nightmare fuel ready for my day to day systems is so handy. 

stuff turning off when not in use is a dream come true, finally i dont have to refuel my setups when they havent even gotten anything done.

the double efficiency is very nice aswell, i can finally run my spotlight for long periods of time without feeling like i'm wasting resources. they're super nice for single player, but kinda iffy for multiplayer unless they want to hug me while i do my base chores. if anything the spotlight is slightly overtuned, which is so refreshing after years of it being a less than stellar option. 

but the real star of the show is the new affinities.

i understand why the skill tree is separated into tiers now, its because all the best stuff is at the end, and thet want to force you to pick some QOL instead of stacking the affinities.

 

the shadow affinity is the ideal early game choice. the rose tinted glasses give you free nightmare fuel AND pure horror, meaning you can cheaply fuel your generators and EVEN run some shadow strikes without having to fight the werepig. the rose tinted glasses also provide a bunch of QOL stuff like: free revives, crossing rivers, oh and a little thing called TELEPORTATION. yes, controlled teleporting from one wormhole to another. its not as accurate or as fast as other teleporting options, but its free, and allows you much more freedom of movement early game than you would expect.

 

the lunar affinity is a great mid-endgame choice though. without requiring insane amounts of resources (though it is expensive) you can set up teleporters. one single teleporter is worth having asap for its utility in returning to base at a whim. but when you get a second teleporter, the options really open up. set up a teleporter at dragonfly and teleport over the resources to build an arena, no more multiple trips. move the teleporter and use it to teleport statues with a fair level of precision, cut statue travel time into ribbons, its faster than moving them around with a beefalo. speaking of beefalo: teleport WITH your beefalo, it brings any non players (or structures) close by with you when you teleport. 

set up a two way teleport to each major island and never touch a boat again. 

and thats ignoring the catapult and GEMerator part. use enlightened shards and never fuel your machines again, use pure brilliance and become a resource gathering machine. 

 

the best part is: you can pick your favorite part of each affinity, and still recieve an affinity-lite of the other side. choose all lunar affinities, but still fuel your basic generators with nightmare fuel obtained from rose tinted glasses. no one's stopping you.

choose the shadow affinities but use the calibrated perciever to allow you to make winbots, you know you want a little gathering-bot. or use rose tinted glasses alongside enlightened catapult strike's gathering potential. or have an array of teleport pads that you use to move around your cheap shadow strike catapults.

the affinities truly have more options than. i know what to do with. and winona does all this without feeling obscenely powerful. she feels reasonable.

 

as far as buffing her teleport goes?:

its not as freely available as wortox, and it doesnt have the control of wanda, but honestly, it already competes with them. it should only get a buff if you plan on buffing their teleport as well, because winonas teleport is pretty dang good. its just different, and i dont think its in a bad way either. it fills a different niche than the other teleports. which is the best way to introduce  a new version of an old ability.

 

klei really thought this skill tree through, it took a whole playthrough for me to fully understand how good it really is. 

 

[zhangsheng]

It's really great, and now Winona can share her catapult without any hesitation. Because she already has enough strength, I believe there will definitely be more people playing with her.
Praise Klei!

[flamboyant wolf]

played about 20 days with people, and slightly over 100 days alone as new Winona(Wagstaff side), and it's just so fun. The teletransport stations are probably my favorite way to teleport around now, heh. Catapults being portable and controllable also makes using them much more fun. Spotlights are simply amazing, too, love em! I only just got around to defeating CC and opening the rifts, but Nona's endgame is looking pretty nice as well, perhaps breaking a first crown isn't necessarily a good idea, but damm having infinite generators is nice, especially when it comes to using it with pure brilliance.

My only two problems rn are WINbots loosing power while doing nothing(they're still handy, but honestly kinda annoying to use sometimes) and catapult buff skills being a bit too drawn out.

[Maxil20]

I think the fact Winona went from “the swap character you make for catapults and nothing else” to “a definitive megabase character with loads of QOL perks that will help you out for practically any stage of the game while still providing boons for the team in general” is all I really need to say in terms of how good the skill tree is.

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

can bring a catapult, spotlight, and generator with me anywhere, meaning that at any time at any place, with some prep, i can be well placed to kill medium to large amounts of enemies without having to mess around with lanterns on the ground providing iffy lighting, or orbs of light overheating/freezing me mid fight

This makes me want to try her in a coop ruins rush.

My only ( but major ) suggestions for Winona:

• Add the faster working downside/upside. The one everybody suggests that will increase her workspeed at the cost of hunger. Should be base kit.

• Make the stat skills a more smooth increase.

 

 

[Ruperstiltskin]

46 minutes ago, skile said:

The teletransport stations are probably my favorite way to teleport around now, heh.

I know! Im actually trying to understand how to make a proper tp network and its so much fun (except for trigonometry ) But i can kinda make a realiable network with a central tp with 3 branches that subdivide into 2 branches each meaning like 10 posible tp places and the possibility to be anywhere in those tps in 5 (4 if you are nearby an existing tp) umbrella uses!

Taking into account that the umbrella has like 15 travel uses its pretty nice tbh!

[flamboyant wolf]

12 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

I know! Im actually trying to understand how to make a proper tp network and its so much fun (except for trigonometry ) But i can kinda make a realiable network with a central tp with 3 branches that subdivide into 2 branches each meaning like 10 posible tp places and the possibility to be anywhere in those tps in 5 (4 if you are nearby an existing tp) umbrella uses!

Taking into account that the umbrella has like 15 travel uses its pretty nice tbh!

Yeah! like it because it can be used as both an easy and decent way to teleport early-mid game, as well as a late game teleportation network, if you're ready to put some thought and planning into it! Also I will not shut up about how great it is to be able to transport several heavy objects at once. 

[Copyafriend]

26 minutes ago, skile said:

great it is to be able to transport several heavy objects at once. 

it was amazing to teleport 5 statues simultaneously while building my dragonfly arena, i just used my base's pottery wheel and just ZOOP ZOOP, now we're at dragonfly, then i arrange them, and ZOOP, back at base building more. 

 

1 hour ago, skile said:

perhaps breaking a first crown isn't necessarily a good idea, but damm having infinite generators is nice,

but the crazy part is that its a TOTALLY reasonable choice to do so. i've thought about doing the SAME thing. not only is infinite generators nice, but winona now has THE definitive alternative to mushlights for infinite light. 6 spotlights can run on ONE enlightened shard. and the other shards can go into a marble farm and a lumber farm.

 

its really really cool.

[Mike23Ua]

I can’t play in the beta but Winona’s skill tree seems Meh…

Like just reading about it I already dread that a good majority of it focuses mostly on just catapult buffs.

Klei you allowed WX78 to become a walking Refrigerator…

With that ALONE I could pitch to you the idea to allow the little Winbot thing to also be able to be a mobile water sprinkler system (for gardens and wildfires) it could be like a smaller portable ice-flingo matic.

But instead Nope, most the skill tree focuses on Catapult buffs. 

[loopuleasa]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

This makes me want to try her in a coop ruins rush.

oh god I have anxiety just thinking of the inventory issues with catapults on top now

[Wikte]

7 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

oh god I have anxiety just thinking of the inventory issues with catapults on top now

Bee Queen is first on the list

[Copyafriend]

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can’t play in the beta but Winona’s skill tree seems Meh…

i think you'll be pleasantly surprised. its hard to explain just how impactful the traits really are. i dont even bother with the fire rate one, but the AOE one? actually massive. it can hit 10 spiders simultaneously EASY, it makes hitting moving targets much more reliable (which is very nice for hounds)

picking up and moving structures is something you gotta experience to understand how big of a deal it is. to put it simply though: you can always have a couple of structures ready to throw down. wintertime? spotlight is just sitting in your inventory, throw it down when you get cold and gather **** in the area while you wait. 

 

and its SO power efficient with the upgrade its silly. i run lights out, so night 24/7. i have to refill the generators running my CONSTANTLY ACTIVE spotlights once every... 5 days? if it wasnt lights out you could probably go a full season without refilling it. and the range of the light is pretty big, and with the size upgrade, its like having a lantern active, except your hands are free to fight or chop trees or whatever. i can light up about twice the area of the oasis between the size and range of the spotlight now.

the shadow winona is able to cross rivers (something only otherwise available to wortox and goose woodie) generate nightmare fuel for free twice a day (thats generator fuel) and create free revives.

its very hard to sight read how good this skill tree is. i am being honest when i say reserve your judgement, it WILL surprise you. 

 

the new winona is also more a megabaser's character, so idk if it'll be your kinda thing, but its sick for sure

[Mike23Ua]

Idk watching the YouTube & Twitch streams for it it looks like a playstyle designed entirely with Mouse Click Controls in mind and will be absolute pure hell to do with an Xbox Controller. (And still obtain max proficiency)

Its already hard to properly line up Willows Fire Spells or Maxwells Shadow Prison, and Wanda & Wortox’s teleports are barely functional.

With this update I’m seeing “point and click aiming” for Catapult AoEs with the remote clicker thing, it’s why I really wish Klei would release beta phases on Consoles too- Because I’m certain controller players will have their own feedback to provide on it.

But by then- Betas over and it’s usually too late for us to chime in.

I’m mostly excited about her structures now being re-deployable though, I can now just re-use the same spotlights & catapults without needing to set them up all over the map like Wurts Merm Army.

[Copyafriend]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

With this update I’m seeing “point and click aiming” for Catapult AoEs with the remote clicker thing, it’s why I really wish Klei would release beta phases on Consoles too- Because I’m certain controller players will have their own feedback to provide on it.

that IS a bummer, but they've actually got something for you too, you can set the catapults to barrage mode which will make them shoot faster without needing to aim them. 

i dont know how planar strikes will work, but they're honestly something ive never felt the need to use. i will say that yeah its gotta be frustrating for so many controls to be based around point and click, but i do actually think that most of winonas kit will be 100% viable

[Wikte]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

that IS a bummer, but they've actually got something for you too, you can set the catapults to barrage mode which will make them shoot faster without needing to aim them. 

i dont know how planar strikes will work, but they're honestly something ive never felt the need to use. i will say that yeah its gotta be frustrating for so many controls to be based around point and click, but i do actually think that most of winonas kit will be 100% viable

How barrage actually works? how many shots it does?

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, Wikte said:

How barrage actually works? how many shots it does?

pretty sure its duration based, and i couldnt tell you. i tested it, and its a moderate fire rate boost (40% or so is my guesstimate) but i wasnt super interested in it so i didnt do any in depth testing. its definitely slower than manual firing the catapults but its manageable i suppose

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

pretty sure its duration based

20 seconds

9 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

40%

50%

[flamboyant wolf]

11 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

pretty sure its duration based, and i couldnt tell you. i tested it, and its a moderate fire rate boost (40% or so is my guesstimate) but i wasnt super interested in it so i didnt do any in depth testing. its definitely slower than manual firing the catapults but its manageable i suppose

I just wish there was a visual indicator for when it's active, it can be hard to tell in the chaos of the fight.

[Copyafriend]

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

20 seconds

50%

thanks

[Wikte]

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

20 seconds

50%

What about aimed single strike speed?

[flamboyant wolf]

Amazing discovery: stone fruit, broken by the enlightened strike, drops stacked fruit/rocks, much like when breaking it with other explosives. That's quite convenient, no need to gunpowder it anymore. Typical Winona Win.

[GreenBowers]

Average Thumper-Chad W

[Mike23Ua]

I’m also not a very big fan of characters doing same-ish type stuff, the only exceptions for me have been Webber & Wurt, they both use followers and they both build their follower army but they’re different enough that it doesn’t feel, idk like something I could do as another character?

I guess that might be why I’m not as excited for Winona’s Teleporting gimmick as most these forums are..

I own every character in the entire game so if I wanted to teleport around I’ll use Wortox or Wanda.

I’ll reserve my full judgement for when the update comes to Xbox but something tells me teleporting won’t be what keeps me playing as Winona.

What Will keep me playing as her however, are the new catapult upgrades, Redeployable kit items, Funny little Robot vacuum pal, and uhh.. uhhh..

Hopefully they’ll shorten all the catapult related stuff and add a few more fun things to her as a character- Because compared to all the cool crap Wurt is getting in her skill tree…. Im probably gonna play more Wurt than I will with Winona.

I hate to feel like this, I mean really really I do.. but catching mosquitos with my bare hands just sounds fun compared to Catapults but now they mine-stuff when they hit it.

[Soul7k]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Idk watching the YouTube & Twitch streams for it it looks like a playstyle designed entirely with Mouse Click Controls in mind and will be absolute pure hell to do with an Xbox Controller. (And still obtain max proficiency)

Its already hard to properly line up Willows Fire Spells or Maxwells Shadow Prison, and Wanda & Wortox’s teleports are barely functional.

With this update I’m seeing “point and click aiming” for Catapult AoEs with the remote clicker thing, it’s why I really wish Klei would release beta phases on Consoles too- Because I’m certain controller players will have their own feedback to provide on it.

it works about the same way. dual stick aiming. I'm sure the aoe makes it easier to lead. I play pc with a ps2 controller and I usually dig anytime they add dual stick aiming. I prefer it to snapping to random targets.

[Venurix]

17 hours ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

I know! Im actually trying to understand how to make a proper tp network and its so much fun (except for trigonometry ) But i can kinda make a realiable network with a central tp with 3 branches that subdivide into 2 branches each meaning like 10 posible tp places and the possibility to be anywhere in those tps in 5 (4 if you are nearby an existing tp) umbrella uses!

Taking into account that the umbrella has like 15 travel uses its pretty nice tbh!

I never tested if the range now is unlimited but i basicly base in the middle of the map and my tele station go 6 trangular each then expand on next layout. It looks cool from the map and not messy telestation but if the range now unlimited it doest matter anymore just pit one on lunar monkas island pk df and such