The game needs more synergy!

[Sesekriri]

My favorite part of the game is the synergy between characters. In my opinion, all characters should have more explicit synergy (I.E. Abilities that are ok or good in solo or with any teammate, but are especially strong with specific other characters.) It is Don't Starve TOGETHER after all. I feel like too frequently people critique the game and make suggestions from a single player standpoint, which is clearly not the intent of the game (see the fact that they do not adjust raid boss health with player count, you are clearly meant to play with others). 
 

Cool synergy examples: 

-Wicker's rain book and Wurt: Its great for canceling rain in spring, watering crops, or cooling summers down at the cost of sanity and slippage. However, with a Wurt teammate, being totally wet is free, and you now have a player that can ignore the summer entirely aside from the hottest few days. This synergy goes two ways, because now the eyebrella can be given to another player, and Wurt is less of a drain on resources to the whole team. Not to mention, Wurt can use many of wickers other books as free rechargeable sanity. 

- Woodie and Wortox: All characters benefit from area healing, but a character with access to infinite 90% armor, who cannot traditionally heal, obviously benefits more! The synergy is two ways, because the entire team gains access to a tank that can absorb much of the damage of a boss or enemies. 

- Wigfrid and Wurt: Everybody talks about them having opposite diets, which can be nice. However, this is sort of indirect synergy, as it is more optimal overall to focus on a few specific food sources. If you have a Wurt on the team, you'll likely want to pursue vegetarian food sources, or visa versa with Wigfrid. This means that if you have both on a team, you won't be able to focus on the same reliable food sources and get two separate ones, which is harder to do. A better example of synergy between the two would be Wigfrid's ability to make dirt cheap head armor. Say hello to an armored merm army! Many boss's with AOEs that would require unfeasible quantities of merms to free-farm are much more doable now. 

There are also smaller examples of synergy that are good:

- Wormwood's bramble husks are great for anyone, but their ability to harvest spiky plants without damage makes Cactus farming easier for characters who need additional sanity, like Wicker or Walter. 

- Wilson's transmutations greatly benefit characters who can more easily farm resources: Wicker, Maxwell, Wurt, and even Winona.

- Wormwood's farming benefits all, but especially benefits Warly for ingredients and Wurt for buffed veggies. 

- Wurt's merms are crazy fast at mining trees and marble shrubs, faster than even Maxwell. However, Maxwell can still be useful for getting stumps and picking stuff up off the ground! 

- Willow's Bernie is useful for blocking sanity creatures for Wicker to use books infinitely somewhere other than Lunar Island. 

However, I do find that some characters are lacking in their interesting synergy, and to me, that makes them far less interesting to play with even if they are objectively strong picks. 

- Wendy is good at farming hordes, which is obviously beneficial to many characters, but there is no thought. Most characters can benefit from infinite spider glands, silk, and monster meat in some way, but there isn't much though in terms of how she interacts with others, and very little to "play around". 

- Wolfgang is great at farming bosses, which obviously benefits everyone, but what does he bring to the table aside from being strong? Is there a single fun character combination?

- Webber is fun but his army does not really do much aside from be tanky and deal damage. 

- Wanda is super strong, and has some interesting selfish abilities, but her only ability that can be shared, her rift watches, equally benefits all other characters. 

- And finally, the biggest offender of selfish synergy-lacking characters: WX-78. His entire kit revolves around making himself stronger. The only possible abilities that could benefit others in the slightest are his Chorusbox circuit (+5 sanity aura and tend to plants), his temperature circuits (temperature auras if standing on top of him), and his Illumination circuit (small light radius). The effects for WX's teammates are all beaten out by NON-CHARACTER SPECIFIC ABILITIES: One-Man Band, Thermal Stones, and lanterns respectively. Not to mention the vastly superior options for other, purely selfish circuits for WX. 

- Also Wes brings like nothing to the table but at least he is a challenge character essentially for solo runs, and I will give the game a singular freebie for that. 

In conclusion, I wish there would be less characters that felt like strong characters for solo runs but don't bring anything interesting to the table when the game is played how it is intended: TOGETHER. 

What simple changes do you think could be made to the game to add more synergy like this? 
 

[Anis5240]

There is one fine line between "useful" and "exploited".

Like how Wilson unintentionally became a swap character because of his transmutes. Or Winona with her catapults (I'm curious how exactly Klei going to exert more control for her onto her machines than just able to disassemble her kits and the remote), Warly with his spices and of course, Wickerbottom's books and Maxwell.

Sure, at first glance it doesn't seem that bad, but the players that choose either of those "swap" characters will feel unappreciated. "What is the purpose of this character other than just supplying rare things/ so other characters can use it better?"

[Gi-Go]

48 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

There is one fine line between "useful" and "exploited".

Like how Wilson unintentionally became a swap character because of his transmutes. Or Winona with her catapults (I'm curious how exactly Klei going to exert more control for her onto her machines than just able to disassemble her kits and the remote), Warly with his spices and of course, Wickerbottom's books and Maxwell.

Sure, at first glance it doesn't seem that bad, but the players that choose either of those "swap" characters will feel unappreciated. "What is the purpose of this character other than just supplying rare things/ so other characters can use it better?"

Ain't nothing wrong with exploited interaction. Optional and fun. What we actually need to watch out for and what ruins the game is exsactly the opposite. Dependance interactions. Unreworked Wx78 and Wikerbottom. More than half of his perks were controlled by another character. You couldn't swap, you needed 2 players in order to be complete. This is what cooperation gone wrong actually looks like. 

[Anis5240]

4 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Dependance interactions

So the "Together" is thrown out of the house. Then why Klei even bother making a multiplayer game at this point?

[arubaro]

50 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

So the "Together" is thrown out of the house. Then why Klei even bother making a multiplayer game at this point?

Is better to find good sinergies by analyzing every character perk, downside, etc than having forced sinergies that only limits how the game is played and the creativity

We could talk really long about sinergies or good character combos because already there are many that appears from their designs without forcing them

[Mike23Ua]

So uhh I used to play SMITE and while Smite is an MOBA battle arena game the one thing Smite did and did extremely well, was character abilities that combo’d into other character abilities.

Aka “Synergies”

And since I played smite religiously for many many years I could probably pitch several really cool ideas to Klei that would make some really epic team synergies.

For example- Wigfrid can now get strength & inspiration buffed by being under Winona’s spotlight, but the catch is that Winona actually has to be actively controlling the light and shining it onto her.

My Favorite character in Smite was actually Izanami, it was cool to have the ability to phase into another player and lay dormant inside their bodies for a few seconds before popping out to attack enemies with surprise attacks, And call me Crazy when I suggest this… but how cool would it be for Wortox to be able to DO that?!? On Xbox you can already lose control over your character by attempting to “Give” another player something, you’ll automatically walk behind them until they stop long enough to accept or reject their item, I use this often when I need to follow a friend but I’m too lazy to hold the analog stick and follow behind. But the fact we CAN lose control over our character at all is exactly why Wortox should be able to much like Izanami, Soul hop into other players bodies for a an exit AoE, there’s also Bernie… which would be cool if his soul hops could posses to auto enlarge and control for a few seconds before going on cooldown.

Wickerbottom could get a cool pendant thingy (the thing we see her use to access her secret area in her animated short) holding this thing near a Wendy player who is reading a new resurrection book with their powers combined, could revive dead teammates.

Maxwells Shadow Prison + Willows Combustion spell could ignite his prison pillars dealing more AoE damage to the mob trapped inside.

Since Wurts new skill tree is going to give her mosquito balloon bombs, a very obvious synergy with Wes would be being able to give craft various types of balloon, Bigger Balloon = more Stored Mosiqutos inside etc…

My point Im trying to make is that at one time smite was mine and my brothers favorite game to play, I have not played smite since my little bro went to jail, but I am extremely familiar with the team work ability synergies, and DST having a whopping cast of 21+ unique playable characters, by all means SHOULD have those Teamwork synergies.

But that’s the thing “TeamWork” not- Build this one thing and then swap to someone else afterwards…

[marshyds]

1 minute ago, SSneaky said:

Perhaps it would be good to atleast make a world setting that removes it?

Making it more expensive could be an option to balance it, like perhaps an iridescent gem for the portal construction and per moon idol.

would give more use to the rainbow rock than 1 craft and a car battery for yellow ruins.

[xhyom]

Kinda funny that Wurt is like known as a character that don't play as a team but she has a good synergy with a lot of characters actually, she can basically give everything Warly needs to make fish Cordon Bleu easily, turning spring into autumn to everyone.

[NPCMaxwell]

27 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Yeah the celestial portal was a bit of a mistake imo.

Perhaps it would be good to atleast make a world setting that removes it?

I wasn't aware there was an abilitx to swap characters in the first place :/ I'd prefer people deciding for one character as long as they stay inside the server. Then people would stop complaining about characters being for "swapping" only, which often seems to be a reason for complaint in this forum?

[Sesekriri]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:25 PM, Anis5240 said:

There is one fine line between "useful" and "exploited".

Like how Wilson unintentionally became a swap character because of his transmutes. Or Winona with her catapults (I'm curious how exactly Klei going to exert more control for her onto her machines than just able to disassemble her kits and the remote), Warly with his spices and of course, Wickerbottom's books and Maxwell.

Sure, at first glance it doesn't seem that bad, but the players that choose either of those "swap" characters will feel unappreciated. "What is the purpose of this character other than just supplying rare things/ so other characters can use it better?"

I think characters should have a mix of permanent abilities that require you to play as them and swap abilities. I like the feature of swapping to other character to mass do something, I think its fun, but the problem comes when that's ALL the characters do. For instance, I like swapping to Wicker as Wurt to make a bookcase and a few books for rechargeable sanity. However, you will never get the full Wicker experience just by swapping to her as Wurt, its not feasible to swap to her every time to read her books. 

23 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Ain't nothing wrong with exploited interaction. Optional and fun. What we actually need to watch out for and what ruins the game is exsactly the opposite. Dependance interactions. Unreworked Wx78 and Wikerbottom. More than half of his perks were controlled by another character. You couldn't swap, you needed 2 players in order to be complete. This is what cooperation gone wrong actually looks like. 

Other than that old interaction are their any examples of this? Other than maybe Warly + a damage character? 

I don't feel like this is nearly as much of a problem as lack of synergy. 

4 hours ago, SSneaky said:

Yeah the celestial portal was a bit of a mistake imo.

Perhaps it would be good to atleast make a world setting that removes it?

Just don't use it? Why should the priority be adding features to remove existing features (when they can just be ignored), rather than add new content? 

[Gi-Go]

8 minutes ago, Sesekriri said:

Other than that old interaction are their any examples of this? Other than maybe Warly + a damage character? 

Nope. This is just a potential issue that can happen if synergy ideas are taken too far. 

[GimplyGoose]

I agree that it would be cool to see more inter-character synergies.

I think it is important for the synergies to require both characters to exist at the same time to prevent "swap character syndrome". Maybe when Wickerbottom's books are read (Only by Wickerbottom not by Maxwell) an additional positive effect could be applied depending on the book/character.

Horticulture: Blooms Wormwood

Silviculture: Woodie gets a temporary work rate buff (think honey spice)

Birds of the world: Wortox souls temporarily heal a little more?

On tentacles: Wigfrid gains some inspiration (to fight the tentacles)

Overcoming Arachnophobia: grows Webber beard

Everything Encyclopedia: grows Wilson beard

Angler's Survival Guide: Warly gets some extra hunger from the next fish dish he eats

Sleepytime Stories: children (Walter, Wendy, Webber) gain some sanity when read at night

The end is nigh: Wes is immediately struck by extra bolts of lightning (maybe not exactly synergy)

Pyrokinetics explained: Willow gains some embers if the prerequisite skill is unlocked?

Tempering Temperatures: Winona gains a small temporary movement speed buff?

Lux Aeterna: Wolfgang gets a small sanity gain because he is scared of the dark

Practical Rain Rituals: ?

Lunar Grimoire: ?

Apicultural Notes: Walter is temporarily immune to the extra damage he takes from his bee allergy

I couldn't come up with anything for Wanda or WX-78. Wurt and Maxwell can already read Wickerbottom's books so they probably don't need extra synergies.

[Anis5240]

3 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

Wurt

Wurt can only read the books for herself, and just for sanity gain/drain anyway.

But Maxwell can read and do the effects as well. His 3x sanity penalty when reading barely affects anything since there's plenty of sanity foods. Or just use the Bone Helm.

In my opinion, Maxwell should at least have another thing to act as a penalty when reading Wicker's books.

[Mike23Ua]

Allow Woodie to place Lucy into Winona’s Roomba Bot so it can do some Dr Seus contraption levels of Deforestation. 

[GreenBowers]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Allow Woodie to place Lucy into Winona’s Roomba Bot so it can do some Dr Seus contraption levels of Deforestation. 

This sounds incredibly silly and I love it very much.

[grm9]

On 6/3/2024 at 1:04 AM, Sesekriri said:

-Wicker's rain book and Wurt: Its great for canceling rain in spring, watering crops, or cooling summers down at the cost of sanity and slippage. However, with a Wurt teammate, being totally wet is free, and you now have a player that can ignore the summer entirely aside from the hottest few days. This synergy goes two ways, because now the eyebrella can be given to another player, and Wurt is less of a drain on resources to the whole team. Not to mention, Wurt can use many of wickers other books as free rechargeable sanity

you can get infinite eyebrellas so it's really just wurt forcing wicker to make and use the book and making everyone lose sanity and get faster food spoilage/use eyebrella

On 6/3/2024 at 1:04 AM, Sesekriri said:

- Woodie and Wortox: All characters benefit from area healing, but a character with access to infinite 90% armor, who cannot traditionally heal, obviously benefits more! The synergy is two ways, because the entire team gains access to a tank that can absorb much of the damage of a boss or enemies

having a tank is usually pointless because most bosses have AoE, minions or their attacks can be easily dodged, so it's just a character spending their stuff on helping someone live after making too many mistakes

On 6/3/2024 at 1:04 AM, Sesekriri said:

- Wigfrid and Wurt: Everybody talks about them having opposite diets, which can be nice. However, this is sort of indirect synergy, as it is more optimal overall to focus on a few specific food sources. If you have a Wurt on the team, you'll likely want to pursue vegetarian food sources, or visa versa with Wigfrid. This means that if you have both on a team, you won't be able to focus on the same reliable food sources and get two separate ones, which is harder to do. A better example of synergy between the two would be Wigfrid's ability to make dirt cheap head armor. Say hello to an armored merm army! Many boss's with AOEs that would require unfeasible quantities of merms to free-farm are much more doable now

same thing applies when using bunnymen and giving armor to merms instead of getting more merms is questionable

11 hours ago, SSneaky said:

thats litteraly the point of my original message.

an option to completely remove the recipe so its IMPOSSIBLE to use it in a world (without commands)

why can't you just not do that

On 6/3/2024 at 2:20 AM, Gi-Go said:

Unreworked Wx78 and Wikerbottom

the problem was mostly that they nerfed lightning stacking for no reason, DST doesn't have a well that converts nf into purple gems and they removed ruins crafting stations spawning lightning

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

The problem was mostly that they nerfed lightning stacking for no reason, DST doesn't have a well that converts nf into purple gems and they removed ruins crafting stations spawning lightning

Oh yeah, true. Unreworked wx78 was far superior when lightning came from hammering stations.