Should health bars be added to the game

[CuteC]

Having played with HP bars I am not convinced with regular enemies as most of them are about the same, but higher HP things (like vargs and bosses) should absolutely have it, there's no way of knowing what bosses you should tackle with your current gear until you're absolutely demolished by them.

[00petar00]

16 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Despite nonsense I tend to see here regarding mods and balance (like how people argue geometric placement makes the game easier, lul), health bars do actually give an advantage. Think of all the times where you are on the verge of dying and having to debate whether to push through with a fight or bail out early, and how a health bar would sway this decision. I mean personally, I'd be fine with health bars for bosses in the base game, but it definitely would make the game somewhat easier.

I just don't believe that players should be on edge and not know that boss is 1-2 hits away from death. A lot of bosses have healing mechanic and you would never know how much health they have unless you are that good at a game to make their healing be close to 0 and count the hits/damage.

So many people on the forums say that it is easy to tell when a boss is healing but this is a lie, it really isn't easy to tell or even If you can tell how do you know how much boss is healing for?

It would be better experience if players can see HP but personally I use a clientside mod that gets a bit buggy when animation cancelling but it is still quite good/pretty close and most players don't use animation cancelling so they won't have this issue and it will always show the correct health.

This should be part of the game and there's a reason most games have this especially with bosses with the amount of health/difficulty DST has.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

A lot of bosses have healing mechanic

4, 2 of them are werepig and antlion that won't heal if you keep attacking them

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

So many people on the forums say that it is easy to tell when a boss is healing but this is a lie, it really isn't easy to tell

you can tell that they went into previous phase, CK also visibly repairs himself and werepig says that it feels better after healing

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

I just don't believe that players should be on edge and not know that boss is 1-2 hits away from death

the point is to force you to count hits if you're using a strat that relies on predicting phase transition and make the strat riskier by allowing you to mess that up, that's a byproduct and you can prevent that by getting more stuff than you need or using strats that you're least likely to mess up e.g. cheese 

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

This should be part of the game and there's a reason most games have this especially with bosses with the amount of health/difficulty DST has

that would remove the need to predict phase transitions for some strats which'd only make the game simpler 

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

4, 2 of them are werepig and antlion that won't heal if you keep attacking them

Why does that matter when most players won't be able to keep attacking them before they heal at least once?

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you can tell that they went into previous phase, CK also visibly repairs himself and werepig says that it feels better after healing

It literally doesn't matter for the argument I am making. What I am saying is that every time a fresh player kills a boss will heal a different amount of health and they won't ever be able to estimate how much HP the boss has.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

the point is to force you to count hits if you're using a strat that relies on predicting phase transition and make the strat riskier by allowing you to mess that up, that's a byproduct and you can prevent that by getting more stuff than you need or using strats that you're least likely to mess up e.g. cheese 

If boss heals even once it makes it so much more difficult even If someone can count which is probably going to be detrimental overall because they'll mess up the fight more often If they focus on it.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

that would remove the need to predict phase transitions for some strats which'd only make the game simpler 

There's a reason most games show health and damage dealt in numbers after every hit. DST being an exception doesn't make the game any better but on the contrary it is worse.

[grm9]

Just now, 00petar00 said:

Why does that matter when most players won't be able to keep attacking them before they heal at least once?

you easily can though? there's nothing to do when fighting antlion except walking when it's in attack anim and attacking it and there's nothing to do when werepig is stunned except attacking it unless you didn't get sanity food but in that case you can attack it once in a while after realising that it's hp increases because it got back to previous phase and said that it feels better now

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

they won't ever be able to estimate how much HP the boss has

scrapbook

3 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

If boss heals even once it makes it so much more difficult even If someone can count which is probably going to be detrimental overall because they'll mess up the fight more often If they focus on it

so you get punished for mistakes

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

it is worse

why is it worse if it's more complex and fun?

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

show health

scrapbook

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

show damage dealt

dummies

[00petar00]

41 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you easily can though? there's nothing to do when fighting antlion except walking when it's in attack anim and attacking it and there's nothing to do when werepig is stunned except attacking it unless you didn't get sanity food but in that case you can attack it once in a while after realising that it's hp increases because it got back to previous phase and said that it feels better now

Can you stop saying that when most players can't? Anyone that puts in enough effort can know every single mechanic for every single boss in the game and how to handle them but does you saying this make it a norm? No, it really doesn't.

A lot of players can't keep attacking all the time and run away from boss to heal but boss outheals them for free and they can never kill the boss this way.

43 minutes ago, grm9 said:

scrapbook

My point was that anyone can google or use scrapbook to find boss hp but you can't estimate boss hp after he heals because someone who would let a boss heal probably doesn't have time to consider how much he healed and at the same time can't count hits.

44 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so you get punished for mistakes

That you completely avoid by rolling back and practicing boss fight while a player that doesn't do that is overly punished and they lose all the time they put into prep for the fight.

44 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why is it worse if it's more complex and fun?

It is more complex and fun for you or less than 1% of players and I am being very generous here.

 

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That you completely avoid by rolling back and practicing boss fight while a player that doesn't do that is overly punished and they lose all the time they put into prep for the fight

that applies to dying even against a boss that doesn't heal

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

A lot of players can't keep attacking all the time and run away from boss to heal but boss outheals them for free and they can never kill the boss this way

you don't need to run away to heal, healing is nearly instant, werepig and antlion are extremely easy and i haven't seen anyone have issues with their healing except when also fighting nightmares when fighting werepig

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

My point was that anyone can google or use scrapbook to find boss hp but you can't estimate boss hp after he heals because someone who would let a boss heal probably doesn't have time to consider how much he healed and at the same time can't count hits

why do they need to know how much hp does the boss have? there are strats for all bosses that don't require predicting phase transitions and both FW and CK start healing only after the phase transition that you need to predict

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is more complex and fun for you or less than 1% of players and I am being very generous here

no statistics, although i'm practically sure that much more people than that don't want hp bars for bosses judging by the poll and amount of servers and people without hp bar mods

[00petar00]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that applies to dying even against a boss that doesn't heal

True but healing makes it much worse because players that are going to die first 5+ times they attempt a specific boss if they don't watch a youtube video, read wiki or ask on discord are going to have a much worse time with healing bosses because they won't know.

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you don't need to run away to heal, healing is nearly instant, werepig and antlion are extremely easy and i haven't seen anyone have issues with their healing except when also fighting nightmares when fighting werepig

Again you are speaking as a very experienced player and don't consider that players don't run purely because they need to heal but to think about the mechanics they witnessed during the fight and to craft more armor/weapons.

Antlion and nightmare werepig are the easiest healing bosses and I still think players will have trouble with nightmare werepig but what about crab king and FW?

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why do they need to know how much hp does the boss have? there are strats for all bosses that don't require predicting phase transitions and both FW and CK start healing only after the phase transition that you need to predict

Most casual players don't watch youtube, read wiki or ask on discord so they don't know about the methods you speak of.

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no statistics, although i'm practically sure that much more people than that don't want hp bars for bosses judging by the poll and amount of servers and people without hp bar mods

Like I said multiple times, it is quite obvious and while I don't have statistics klei does. Anyone can join random servers and see that almost no one is playing the way you do.

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

True but healing makes it much worse because players that are going to die first 5+ times they attempt a specific boss if they don't watch a youtube video, read wiki or ask on discord are going to have a much worse time with healing bosses because they won't know

know what? all bosses can get into previous phase by healing so you'll know that they heal that way

12 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Again you are speaking as a very experienced player and don't consider that players don't run purely because they need to heal but to think about the mechanics they witnessed during the fight and to craft more armor/weapons

then you should just expect the boss to heal or despawn if you go away for a while, most bosses do that

12 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Most casual players don't watch youtube, read wiki or ask on discord so they don't know about the methods you speak of

they can figure them out by trying to do stuff or thinking about how to counter what the boss does and the point was that strats that require predicting phase transitions aren't easiest to figure out nor execute so they probably wouldn't use those anyway

12 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

what about crab king and FW?

FW goes back into p1 and starts casting spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway again, CK visibly repairs himself, so it's apparent that you need to prevent them from healing and you don't need to predict a phase transition after they start healing

12 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Like I said multiple times, it is quite obvious and while I don't have statistics klei does. Anyone can join random servers and see that almost no one is playing the way you do

you can also see that a lot of those servers don't have hp bar mods

[00petar00]

Just now, grm9 said:

then you should just expect the boss to heal or despawn if you go away for a while, most bosses do that

In most other games I can see boss HP so I know what to do and when they are healing without having to look at boss animation and figure it out myself. Most other games aren't nearly as punishing as DST but someone who rolls back to practice the fight wouldn't consider this.

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

they can figure them out by trying to do stuff or thinking about how to counter what the boss does and the point was that they're even less likely to know about strats that require predicting phase transitions

Surely someone has time to think about how to counter a boss that they have never seen before or know what abilities the boss has.

Someone attempting crab king for the first time is supposed to know that they need to bring ice staffs and weather pain and use purple gems for the easiest possible fight.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

FW goes back into p1 and starts casting spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway again, CK visibly repairs himself, so it's apparent that you need to prevent them from healing and you don't need to predict a phase transition after they start healing

If a boss goes into the previous phase the player has most likely failed because someone who can't keep outdamaging the heal probably isn't as experienced and will take more hits and won't have armor, weapons or food to finish the fight.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

Most other games aren't nearly as punishing as DST but someone who rolls back to practice the fight wouldn't consider this

you can also practice or use easy strats/cheese

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

In most other games I can see boss HP so I know what to do and when they are healing without having to look at boss animation and figure it out myself

you'll realise that after they heal and not run away next time

7 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Surely someone has time to think about how to counter a boss that they have never seen before or know what abilities the boss has.

Someone attempting crab king for the first time is supposed to know that they need to bring ice staffs and weather pain and use purple gems for the easiest possible fight

they can activate the fight once to see what does it do

7 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

If a boss goes into the previous phase the player has most likely failed because someone who can't keep outdamaging the heal probably isn't as experienced and will take more hits and won't have armor, weapons or food to finish the fight

so they get punished for mistakes?

[Echsrick]

i think i came to a conclusion....it is not worth arguing with someone about game balance and player skill levels, it just appears into an endless circle

[arubaro]

14 hours ago, . . . said:

They also need to add a temperature icon too

No lol

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

so they get punished for mistakes?

For mistakes that you avoid by rolling back to practice fights. It seems very disingenuous to use rollback features or spawn items and compare to players that don't do that at all.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

For mistakes that you avoid by rolling back to practice fights. It seems very disingenuous to use rollback features or spawn items and compare to players that don't do that at all

where was the comparison and why don't these people use strats that don't require practicing if they aren't going to practice?

[00petar00]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

where was the comparison and why don't these people use strats that don't require practicing if they aren't going to practice?

Most players that start playing any game just want to play the game. The less barriers to entry the game turns out better, why should someone be required to rollback or use console commands to practice fights?

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

why should someone be required to rollback or use console commands to practice fights?

how else are they supposed to practice them? if you're not going to lose anything after death, risky strats'll become riskless and you'll only waste 2 mins by failing

[00petar00]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how else are they supposed to practice them? if you're not going to lose anything after death, risky strats'll become riskless and you'll only waste 2 mins by failing

Most players just play the game and If they don't want to keep going they''ll quit. They don't utilize rollback feature or spawn items to practice fights.

[grm9]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Most players just play the game and If they don't want to keep going they''ll quit

so? there are strats that don't require practicing

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

They don't utilize rollback feature

most people that i've seen either do that or turn on reviving through portal

[00petar00]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

most people that i've seen either do that or turn on revives from portal

false, most players just play the game in the way that it is intended and If they don't like it they quit.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

false, most players just play the game in the way that it is intended

is the 1st option for world settings being the easy mode that includes reviving through portal unintended?

4 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

If they don't like it they quit

good thing that there are cheese, easy and ineffective and hard, risky and effective strats so everyone are satisfied and newbies aren't going to try to kill BQ once, die and quit before reaching winter in a survival game

[Gi-Go]

They don't fit, they give too much info. This became apperanet when I got myself a bearger and I used epic health bar for epic health care. 

I do still play with this mod because bosses are frustrating to me without health bar, since it feels like I'm not doing any progress at all untill oh it died. But I'd rather keep it a mod. 

[NoodlemanNed]

i think health bars are a good idea if theyre implemented well. the default settings for the "simple health bar" mod would be way too much visual noise in a lot of situations, but i have played games that are able to display info like that (and not take up half of the screen) despite having massive hordes of enemies.

i also like the idea of adding this as extra functionality for horizon expander.

[Catuna_]

25 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

i think health bars are a good idea if theyre implemented well. the default settings for the "simple health bar" mod would be way too much visual noise in a lot of situations, but i have played games that are able to display info like that (and not take up half of the screen) despite having massive hordes of enemies.

i also like the idea of adding this as extra functionality for horizon expander.

showing enemy health when you hover over them would be a great way for doing it, i use a mod for that when i play

[xDarkSoul18x]

In a game where stats such as health and fighting mechanics have such importance yes. At least an option. I never understood why some devs are so hell bent on giving the least amount of information possible, especially when that information is important. At the very least it should be an option to toggle. There's really no reason not too because you can just open your inventory and see you stats or hover over it. There is zero reason to not have it an option. Those who don't like it don't have to have it on. TONS of other games do this, player choice. How are options ever a bad thing? The middle ground would be bosses only. But if you can do detailed statistics on bosses. . .Why not just every mob. Or toggle between a priority. 

It would definitely be nice for the console life. That and grid placement!