Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 Are there any disadvantages to having the information of who voted how? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 The idea of someone wanting to kick people while staying clean and anonymous is extremely unpleasant to me. Why would you want this? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 22, 2024 Author Share Posted March 22, 2024 17 minutes ago, Gi-Go said: The idea of someone wanting to kick people while staying clean and anonymous is extremely unpleasant to me. Why would you want this? Did you misunderstand me or was the "why would you want this" a rhetorical? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 5 minutes ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said: Did you misunderstand me Yeah, my bad. So, how would that work? Where are you going to put all these nicknames? And what is the point? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 22, 2024 Author Share Posted March 22, 2024 1 hour ago, Gi-Go said: Yeah, my bad. So, how would that work? Where are you going to put all these nicknames? And what is the point? What is the point is an important question. When a group of kick-griefers join and start kicking votes, i want to know who the imposters are (or more importantly, who i can be almost sure are not the imposters). I can manage to kick the leader who started the votes (it shows who started the vote), but now I can't trust anyone on the server. Where to put them is a secondary question. Why not in the chat right after the message about the result? like this: (For: nick1, nick2, nick3; Against: nick4, nick5, nick6) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 2 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said: Are there any disadvantages to having the information of who voted how? Harassment from people being kicked? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 22, 2024 Author Share Posted March 22, 2024 8 minutes ago, _zwb said: Harassment from people being kicked? In a case of failed vote? I guess you're right. That would be undesirable i guess. Case could be made against showing who started the vote then. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 1 hour ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said: When a group of kick-griefers join and start kicking votes, i want to know who the imposters are (or more importantly, who i can be almost sure are not the imposters). I can manage to kick the leader who started the votes (it shows who started the vote), but now I can't trust anyone on the server. Improbable. Vote power belongs to the oldest player. Vote numbers are a first grade math, how could they miscalculate it and fail at kicking you? And if that happens, what are you gonna do next? Execute everyone who voted yes? Sound petty to me. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranoze Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 4 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said: When a group of kick-griefers join and start kicking votes, i want to know who the imposters are (or more importantly, who i can be almost sure are not the imposters). I can manage to kick the leader who started the votes (it shows who started the vote), but now I can't trust anyone on the server. On the opposite case, if the person got kicked is the griefer, which what kick was original designed for, the griefer can start target griefing those who voted against them. What i would do is just count as everyone who remain after griefers kicking/ruined your world as the griefer. Even revealed who voted yes can sometimes give wrong result as there are newbies that just vote yes to everything appear on screen. 2 hours ago, Gi-Go said: Improbable. Vote power belongs to the oldest player. Vote numbers are a first grade math, how could they miscalculate it and fail at kicking you? And if that happens, what are you gonna do next? Execute everyone who voted yes? Sound petty to me. Vote power belong to group with highest player count. A griefer can just join, play for 20 days to be able to start the vote, use 4 alt account to log in, and kick everyone else. Which is what op want to know, that which one is the accounts belong to the group of griefer. He mentioned specifically "group of kick-griefers" Will knowing what account belong to them help? yes. You can kick them before they reach 20 days mark the next time you see them. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 3 minutes ago, Tranoze said: Vote power belong to group with highest player count. I know, but who the hell is gonna play for 2.5 hours just to kick people? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranoze Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 Just now, Gi-Go said: I know, but who the hell is gonna play for 2.5 hours just to kick people? you have no idea the wild and chaotic nature of griefers. If they have to use 2.5 hours to ruin 2.5+ irl days of work of 8 people, they would. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 11 minutes ago, Tranoze said: you have no idea the wild and chaotic nature of griefers. If they have to use 2.5 hours to ruin 2.5+ irl days of work of 8 people, they would. I'm not a griefer or anything, but if I were to do a 20 day vote, I'd rather go for a regen, as it will give a better reaction, and you might not even need friends since people can agree to vote, and even defend you, because regen is not a hostile and personal vote, unlike kicking. As for ruining days of work, all community servers are somewhat moderated and you should probably discuss this issue with host. exception is klei officials of course, and those get regenerated daily which is for the best anyways, so people shouldn't really be attached to the progress they make there. But none of this matters, because knowing the names of people that voted yes won't achive much, since not only do names can be changed, but I struggle to imagen someone manually keeping track of people. On top of the fact that people often vote yes just because they are kids and don't care. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranoze Posted March 22, 2024 Share Posted March 22, 2024 9 minutes ago, Gi-Go said: I'd rather go for a regen, as it will give a better reaction In klei pub (maybe different from other communities) players have developed a natural emotional defense from world regen, as the world there regen everyday. So most likely the reaction there is only those who played at the same time as the griefer know about it, the rest will remain emotional undamaged. On other hand, if the world is keep but all base destroyed, players who played the previous day will join and know, and they dont know if the griefer will ever come back again and grief them all again, and play in fear is much worst feeling than the world just regen and everyone moved on. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1706902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted March 23, 2024 Share Posted March 23, 2024 Voting as a process is almost always secret when related to people's options. Why do you need to know who voted what? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1707287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 26, 2024 Author Share Posted March 26, 2024 On 3/23/2024 at 8:24 PM, MondayNight said: Voting as a process is almost always secret when related to people's options. Why do you need to know who voted what? If you are referring to politics, it is not the same. In politics the vote doesn't kick somebody, but promotes. How is keeping secret the identities of people who want to actively hurt me for no reason a good thing? I already said why i need to know who voted what in this thread - when kick-griefer group starts kicking people, if i could see who is voting "no", me and every non-griefer on the server will know who to TRUST. Otherwise when you manage to kick the leader who was starting the votes, what proceeds is just a wild west where everyone blames everyone and noone knows the truth. Paranoia overtakes the server. On 3/22/2024 at 1:22 PM, Tranoze said: On the opposite case, if the person got kicked is the griefer, which what kick was original designed for, the griefer can start target griefing those who voted against them. How is target griefing worse than already griefing the entire server? Also, when somebody is actually griefing, everybody except for their buddies vote yes, so they already know that information. On 3/22/2024 at 10:55 AM, Gi-Go said: Improbable. Vote power belongs to the oldest player. Vote numbers are a first grade math, how could they miscalculate it and fail at kicking you? And if that happens, what are you gonna do next? Execute everyone who voted yes? Sound petty to me. They might just have their core 2-3 votes and count on other people going along at first. They start votes and act as if they are in the right and people fall for it. In my experience they often just start the vote without any notice or explanation and simply watch the chaos ensue. There is a window of oppurtunity to get rid of them before they get the majority. No executions nor pettiness required. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1707630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranoze Posted March 26, 2024 Share Posted March 26, 2024 2 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said: when kick-griefer group starts kicking people Just because people started a kick vote on you and succeed doesnt mean they are kick-griefer group. If they really are, they probably kick all of you before you have a chance to join back to kick the leader, then they will do what ever they want (regen server, destroy world...), then leave. By that time, you should know who ever remain in the server without being kicked IS the group. If you managed to go back, kick the leader, they probably just one person managed to start the vote on you and few newbies just voted yes on everything they see. Yes they exist. And if you know who they are, most likely they will end up getting kicked even though they have no idea what going on. 2 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said: How is target griefing worse than already griefing the entire server? It doesnt. But knowing who voted yes does allow more target griefing (instead of only griefing the kicker, now griefer can also target who voted yes). Knowing who vote yes doesnt stop people from kicking griefing entire server. People who can use multiple account to kick griefing, already have multiple account to switch each time you noticed them. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1707652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonz Posted March 26, 2024 Share Posted March 26, 2024 What would you do with this information? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1707686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 26, 2024 Author Share Posted March 26, 2024 3 hours ago, Wonz said: What would you do with this information? Create new friendships with people i can trust? Protect the server (or at least try to)? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1707704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 On 3/26/2024 at 6:35 AM, Cr4zyFl4mes said: They might just have their core 2-3 votes and count on other people going along at first. They start votes and act as if they are in the right and people fall for it. In my experience they often just start the vote without any notice or explanation and simply watch the chaos ensue. There is a window of oppurtunity to get rid of them before they get the majority. No executions nor pettiness required. In other words, innocent people also press yes because they don't know any better, rendering your own request meaningless. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1707859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 27, 2024 Author Share Posted March 27, 2024 8 hours ago, Gi-Go said: In other words, innocent people also press yes because they don't know any better, rendering your own request meaningless. Oh yes, because when an information is only hinting at a fact and doesn't include an absolute certainty, it is completely meaningless -_-. As if i couldn't work with somebody being just suspicious. Plus, you are completely ignoring the main point - which is to know who isn't a griefer. Knowing who is is secondary. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1708057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatt Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 Also, add a title, or allow title to be added after vote starts. Because a lot of times, Idk why vote happened, and I don't want to kick anyone by mistake. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1708091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr4zyFl4mes Posted March 28, 2024 Author Share Posted March 28, 2024 I did realize one disadvantage - the kick griefers would get the information as well - meaning they would know's going along with their votes and who isn't and thus is to be targeted next. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/155162-the-votes-for-kicking-need-to-be-transparent/#findComment-1708254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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