We change, and I think you should too..

[Swiyss]

Okay.. I have something to say here, and it might sound weird at first, but I guarantee that this post right here will have an impact on the future.

First of all, everything here is a problem of miscommunication.

Klei sets the tone for the game and we follow. If klei said they will be releasing a skill tree for everyone, and they do not intent to give wilson a "proper" rework, things would be different. Most people wouldn't feel scammed, because everything was planned. Some wouldn't feel the need to complain because the intention was delivered.

The game is changing, don't starve is changing and it will continue to change forever. However Klei has to be smart here and think a lot about this. They also need to communicate almost everything they're doing, a suggestion would be to create puzzles for people to engage and stories that show something clear so we can expect that in the game. The path has to be foggy, but visible so we can still see some of it. Be intrigued.

As for how the game is changing.. it's very complicated. Don't starve was always a game that rewarded the player for knowing the ins and outs of it. Don't starve was always a challenging and hard game that rewarded you for taking care of this hopeless constant and moving things on it. Don't starve was always (sorry) Uncompromising when it came to survivability. It always screwed you over things that were outside of your control, being uncompromising is similar to giving the player a challenge, but one that would only be effective after you experienced it once. For that though, the game has changed, dst is not evolving taking those points in consideration, but actually to the only path it could always go to, and that is innovation. Dst is now innovating in patterns, features and changes. The main game wasn't touched too much lately because they wanna keep that "main" uncompromising feel to it. If they changed that, then they would take all they did and throw it in the trash.

I can also give you an example of what's happening to dst lately and why it is great, and we should focus on these issues rather than small things (that's the main point about communication, if klei don't state where the game is going, we will be moving our brain power in the wrong area, and the main thing won't be adressed, so it will leave to Klei to take all problems and try to fix it, they don't have time to create post about things and read everything and also fix bugs and pump new features out. A LOT of things like suggestions and ideas are being forgotten and left out because of the inconsistency of post on here, we have a channel for that that rarely gets any attention, but things in there are taken in consideration when making the game, without people from outside this perspective actually giving their opinions about it or pointing potential errors in synergies inside the game. And different opinions are very important because 1 person cannot have the same background, we need more people to create a unique idea that comes from lots of minds. If we keep ourselves unorganized, then all effort will be useless. It is not about what you or me or him or her wants, it is about what WE. CAN. HAVE) The world is a very uncompromising place, you can quickly die by venom while searching for food or die from a disease out of nowhere, regular people faint away while driving or at home. Dst is also a bit like real life. However, in this life, we got to a point where survival is not that big of a deal. We humans worked together to have eletricity, plumbing and internet working all at the same time. Food is delivered from miles away and offered in exchange of some work in this society. So for dst to progress, they felt like these survival things were already set, klei can't keep adding hounds variants, the game got too popular and known. There are walking wiki's everywhere, and the game will never ever compare to real life's complexity. So then adding skillsets, bosses, quests, small challenges and etc.. is a good way of keeping the game innovative while also adding replayability.

I just went through a moment and read every single post I did in this forum and I can safely say most of the problems I encountered was because I was still looking at DST as this baby DS clone. I still have that DS impression on me, however new players don't have that, they accept almost everything you throw at them, and they like almost every feature. We as "adults" in this field of content should be more responsible to the game's identity and more cohecive while communicating our points of view.

I think that skillsets are great. But I doubt that Klei got any "masters degree" in Diablo IV or Path Of Exile type of content, so we have to convey specifically, and ask more rather than set tones.

What do we need?

Everyone should have fun while playing dont starve together, we have many characters and many playstyles, so we should adress them! I might be out of topic, but I want to say this with all of my heart, and I've been thinking about this a lot lately. We have relaxed players, I know how they feel playing dst, they are the type of people that would rather cheese bosses than fight them, but at the same time they are the ones that give the most amount of effort in every field of tasks that they complete. If they farm, they do every giant, with every seed, and play with every fertilizer. So we can't call them lazy for cheesing bosses since they spent most of their time cleaning our bases or amassing resources. We also got the boss rusher, this is the most experienced in fighting type of person, this field is filled with people who know what they're doing at all times, and they can do strategies that most can't, they are very necessary for progression and visualizing opportunities based on world map generation, they are quick thinkers and smart people who love getting challenged by the game. We also got the regular OG, the person who played for most hours in the game, they pick a certain character every year or so and blast worlds on it, they don't focus on megabasing, doing tasks or killing bosses, but they are good at every one of those things, they enjoy playing together and love how the game treats them, patience is a must. We also got the megabaser, this person adds turfs and items to the game so their megabases are all perfect as they should, they focus so much in color theory, depth perception and all of the tiny little details that most can't see. We also go the starter player, they don't know much about the game but try to understand it, they are new souls in this field that need guidance, and it they are left out or forgotten, they die quickly and maybe never come back, their tragedy is constant in the constanst (sorry again). I had to say this.

For everyone, there is a place in dst, there is a character and a playstyle, and if klei wants this thing to move on, they need to adress this. I said this before and I'll say it again, survival, relaxed, lights out and endless are all scams, they just change the game's settings, once players realize that they lose the grip. We also have too much difficulty early for slow starters, making the game deal less damage in the options will never fix this. However I know what will.

Klei, listen very carefully, we need a starter zone around spawn, I know it sounds weird to change the main base game, but we need this to work. It is our only chance. I hate saying this but it is for the best. We need a way to revive a person that dies to darkness on day one, if we're not giving them tutorial-like advice on making a torch like we used to do in original ds with Maxwell's quote, than we should adress this here. The world map needs to change, but not radically, just a tiny bit around here and there, the main focus in my opinion is around how the player should play the game. Progression is inevitable after much time in the constant, if you have nothing to do, something will eventually spark your mind. Dst was always a game of slow progression, you enter the game, win a bit, then win some more and then you can now survive indefinitely. After this point comes a feeling, should I explore a bit more? Should I change places? Should I.. kill a boss? These players that start the game slowly are completely lost and blind to this game's incredible amount of content. The place around the spawn area shouldn't include meteors fields or swamps, both should be further away. The world map should feel unique and new everything as it does now, but with a more cohesive pattern. Every world should have a triple mactusk. Every world should have the dragonfly desert be away from spawn, and the bee queen nest be closer to spawn. We should have a "volcano" thematic around dragonfly, with lore included on where dragons come from. We need a better way to achieve upper areas in the game, there should be a gigantic tree in the ocean that leads to various meese/geese nests, implying that most of them come to land every once in a while to gather food in spring, when the heavy rain from the skies can damage their nests and the tree itself, they are field with lighting calling features because of the proximity to the sky. Volt goats need lore improvement, we need more moleworms improvement, we need to improve rabbits and their mechanic, more ways to breed them, different species, different habitats and different powers related to it. All of this could be a tone set under rifts, rifts can magically change creatures in this game in a way that we never seen before. We need more werepigs interactions and meaning behind it, we have to make alter be cohecive with gloomer and mushroom at full moons, why does the shadows fear the moon but not the sun? We need more hamlet styled interactions with the pig king. They need insight from different areas, we need a coin and currency added to the game, as long as it is regular and funny, doesn't have to be super complicated too. We need a way to access the scrapbook at all times but without it being only a esc-settings feature. We need more of those wagstaffs experiments happening in the constanst. We need electricity update, we need hidden ways to put underground cables to express our creativity, levers that would trigger a boom and scare some enemies, or even gramophone sounds to automatically play songs for our lovely plants, we need volt goat interaction with electricity and how their bodies release so much energy that it could be contained somehow. We need reasonings for things, all of this under the fact that we also need a major thing behind all of this. Lag fix, the game has to fix lag issues in a better way, predictive doesn't always work, the US is a big country, having to play with someone from across the country is almost impossible sometimes, in a game where a hit could kill you, having that millisecond more is very important. A new fix to the caves is needed also, I do not think that the current system is very great for old computers, having to waste day counts on logging time really affects the game.

What should we focus on?

After these issues, the focus has to be on how the game will feel for everyone, and progress should be steady but rewarding. As I said before, killing a noob on the night of day 1 is not that intuitive, also some foods should have quotes changed for them, survivors need to help the player understand the system around them. We need a set early game, middle ground and end/late part, early should be all about surviving and setting the scene for what's next, early game should be autumn, winter and beyond should be intermediate and rifts should be late game. Maybe there is room for a place in between intermediate and late game. Maybe something after killing all "raid-bosses", those should set the way. We need a place to chill, a place to suffer and learn and a place to conquer, I think that locking the celestial champion behind some of his current quests is great, but to actually lock him behind raid-bosses is a very bad idea, however, a bit of both worlds would fix a lot of the game's current issues. Sure I love pearl, but she should give us the pearl on 6 quests, and she should gives us a way better reward on 12 quests, that way the game progression would be way easier, also the moonstone event shouldn't be tied to only the star caller staff, but also the other gems. This game has an amazing gem system where it could greatly benefit some characters in specific, I think that the gems should be something more meaningful. As for the beginner's progression, I think that players should be greatly benefited from catching a rabbit or a bird, killing a catcoon or a frog. There could be more to killing rabbits than crockpot recipes, sure those are great when you're learning the game, but early game features should *lean* towards late game rewards, the player should feel the need to go out of his way to get those things, because he knew how hard it was at first. I think that making every character should have an intruction scene, where it sets the tone for new players, we can skip those if we want to but it should be neccessary for new players. We also need to give meaning to certain items in the game, listen, I know that getting some silk and some beefalo wool is not that hard to do, but is it harder to just kill a beefalo for his horns? (Beefalo hat) Is it even different than catching 2 rabbits for a nonexistent insulation factor? Those things might seem obvious, but they can go behind our eyes very quickly. If I can give a suggestion, it would be to add a new feature that could be implemented alongside almost all beginner and intermediate items. What if the bird cage could be used in a specific place in the world to catch something that is necessary for progression? Like they did with fishing for pearl, the pocket scale and sea fishing rods. What if they keep the trick of having to catch rabbits for magic tiers, those are creative and intuitive. 

But, how should the game progress then?

It's hard for me to think out of the blue, or to give any quick suggestions here, so I'll give my best to try and control everything under a certain topic. I think that the game should make you feel bad at first, to then reward you for enduring that thing later. Killing deerclops is a big big advanced thing for newbies to do to overcome spring rain, that's a great example. I think that early game's progression should tie a little bit more onto getting some essential materials for later, I think that the game doesn't really push you too much to where you should go. I feel like a good way to motivate players to get out their base zone is to hide great rewards behind them. Sure deerclops comes to you, but when I first started playing I just tooked him to the marsh biome and the tentacles would do the work. I think things like the terrarium are great examples of a thing that you have to search for it to gain a reward from, sure it doesn't attract you, and that's the problem for me. It shouldn't be something big, but just little hints could work. I also think that day to day actions should be more interesting and rewarding, let's take chopping trees as an example, chopping trees as any character but woodie and wolfgang is somewhat regular, you hit a big evergreen 15 times and it falls, getting the pickaxe/axe makes this process somewhat faster and glass axes even faster, that is great until you realize that getting wood with those options is not necessary or as efficient by the point you get to have them, I'm not saying to put glass axes available earlier since it would ruin flint and gold axes. So for me there should be a way to improve a glass axe with metal power, there could be an axe that chops 3 times and a giant tree falls, then 2 times for a medium one and once for a small one, this item could be obtainable early, but you would have to learn how to melt gold and other resources to change its mechanics so it accepts fusing with water or salt altered by gems. I know we have a use for gems with thulecite and nightmare fuel, but why can't we have a use for gems with gold mixed with salt water and moonglass? We could finally choose between rushing the ruins or rushing the underwater secrets of the ocean, give us a way to expand the ocean and the caves at the same time and put a hard system of smelting behind it. We could certainly mix science machines with it too. As for glass cutters, it could also receive the same treatment. We also need to focus on fixing some early game exploration, running around trying to find biomes is cool and all, but I think that we should be able to craft certain items to "locate" things in the same, like a way to find the oasis, or the moonstone, those could be similar to that giant telephone rod from original ds. We need a beach biome, more shallow water mechanics, mountains on certain areas, different places to plant for different reasons. 

What else can be improved?

Combat, everyone has been screaming for combat content for years Klei. And you did it, but only for wigfrid, we could all get creative ways to dodge enemies and weapons with different aspects to it. Give us the famous bat bat treatment, a weapon made for a specific thing. Also we could have more ways to parry bosses and hold strong attacks that have some cooldown, willow's affinities should've been this, she casts 5 fire orbs around her head that spews fires from her hand every second attack but has a cooldown. Combat has to have 2 focuses, melee and range, have people choose between slower ranged attacks vs strong melee ones, and that doesn't have to be tied to rift contents. We need more ways to express ourselves, we're humans.

[ALCRD]

Nah

[Trontar]

I can wholly agree with the mostly creative features mentioned above. But thinking about it, we might not want to make the game super complex and add more, and it’s already an issue, because how much storage it takes on a console or PC. But I personally feel like DST is amazing right now, the only issue being lag, but everything else is so crisp and love DST still. Building, surviving, social experiments( no questions allowed for that) and communicating and overall having fun with players. The emotes, the chat, emoticons, emotes, and skins really can represent and show off a player, or how cool the game is! Darn, just having a full public server (make sure they have functioning brains.) and working together makes one of the greatest experiences  ever. Even playing with Newer players or veterans, trying to survive the challenges you can customize can truly make a lasting positive impact on you.

something I just thought about: this is kinda based off minecraft; but if you try chopping a tree or mining a boulder with something you weren’t supposed to use it on (like a weapon or hammer) it loses extra durability.  Using your fists to do similar tasks could lower your sanity and health too.

Edited February 5 by Trontar
Corrections AGAIN

[zhangsheng]

Just a small suggestion, you can highlight the important matters you think in bold, otherwise the article will be too long and others will not be able to grasp the key points you want to say.

[Kubicska]

5 hours ago, Trontar said:

something I just thought about: this is kinda based off minecraft; but if you try chopping a tree or mining a boulder with something you weren’t supposed to use it on (like a weapon or hammer) it loses extra durability.  Using your fists to do similar tasks could lower your sanity and health too.

aCTuAlLY
 

In real life, pickaxes work sometimes better than shovels when digging up things from the ground, or just loosening up the soil if it’s too hard to make a dent in with “regular” gardening tools, just be careful when swinging it around as it’s quite heavy and a bit messier at work than a shovel.

In conclusion, if you were stranded in the constant’s untamed wilderness, irl, then changes are, you are better of using a pickaxe rather than a shovel when digging up those berry bushes and grasstufts, as I doubt that the ground there is soft as pillow unless you used a garden digamajig there before hand or something.

(Also sorry for the “Actually” meme)

DS characters are just built different 

[BalkanCockroach]

10 minutes ago, Kubicska said:

In conclusion, if you were stranded in the constant’s untamed wilderness, irl, then changes are, you are better of using a pickaxe rather than a shovel when digging up those berry bushes and grasstufts.

If i was in the constant's wilderness, then i wouldn't dig up either. And i certainly wouldn't eat the berries (without prior knowledge). I would go for the pig king. That's food for a long time before it starts to rot. 

[Trontar]

Oh corpse that’s actually really useful

2 hours ago, zhangsheng said:

Just a small suggestion, you can highlight the important matters you think in bold, otherwise the article will be too long and others will not be able to grasp the key points you want to say.

 

[Swiyss]

4 hours ago, zhangsheng said:

Just a small suggestion, you can highlight the important matters you think in bold, otherwise the article will be too long and others will not be able to grasp the key points you want to say.

I'm having problems with this, the post is so big it will take me some time xd.

[loopuleasa]

Peak forum content

[Swiyss]

This is what I am talking about ^^

This topic is what I mean. No one is going to read this, but it is important. When I said the game is losing hope before, I was not exaggerating.

Some of these were adressed by Klei already. Gotta say this to them :

thank you! I love you guys.

[arubaro]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:02 PM, BalkanCockroach said:

That's food for a long time before it starts to rot

Just few hours before is filled with fly larvaes and atract predators unless you really know about preserving food and have a good spot to hide the meat

[BalkanCockroach]

13 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Just few hours before is filled with fly larvaes and atract predators unless you really know about preserving food and have a good spot to hide the meat

Flies in the constant are only attracted to fruit, ponds and manure. And as for the predators, my first priority would be to survive lmao. If we assume Wilson has the size of an average irl man, that practically makes hounds bear dogs that have the jaw size of a humans entire torso. And they come in packs!!

Edited March 3 by BalkanCockroach

[comonavi]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:58 AM, Swiyss said:

Klei, listen very carefully

"Klei pls fix this, Klei pls add my ideas, Klei pls notice me"

Maybe try a numbered list if you want to dump all your random ideas at once? These suggestions are all over the place.

[Echsrick]

ok, here is probably an importand thing of knowlege: people may not have the energy to read a book page in a place they dont realy expect one to see...i know it sounds harsh and may be the very reason why people may sound dismissive about all of the text you wrote there, but this is the sad truth...

[mykenception]

it's 2024, pls make a tldr

I didn't expect having to read an entire article in the forums

[NoodlemanNed]

mucho texto