Mysterious box Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Just want to make sure we're on the same page but beyond any other skill changes before the end of the beta two of the biggest issues that need solved are Willow's Burning Bernie skill not generating enough value to be a good choice vs her lighter builds with the lighter builds being far more flexible and carrying far more inherent value. The second one is that Willow's shadow alignment lacks real value over the lunar alignment however I feel this is actually a simple fix of just raising her shadow alignment's lighter skills damage since the skill is multiple single target attacks it makes sense that to compensate lunar fire's mobbing ability it should do more damage overall than it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Daemon Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 They could possibly change her shadow lighter skill to instead become a single tendril that hits enemies multiple times (prioritizing burning enemies) rather than being multiple tendrils that hit multiple enemies once. it could also regain its attack charges /deal more damage every time it hits a burning enemy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenomeSquirrel Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Does combustion function well? I’m confident they’ll fix the crashing, but I can’t test it well myself. and this was more a curiosity thing, but does combustion kill bulbous lightbugs, not that I’d ask for special protection, but I’ve grown to like them as test glass cutters Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Bernie tree is the only thing that needs work imo. The shadow tendrils does less damage BUT doesn't lock you in place. Using the lunar fire canon doesn't let you run around. IF you want to be more mobile, or don't want to deal with the aiming tendrils is a nice option. 2 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said: Does combustion function well? I’m confident they’ll fix the crashing, but I can’t test it well myself. and this was more a curiosity thing, but does combustion kill bulbous lightbugs, not that I’d ask for special protection, but I’ve grown to like them as test glass cutters I have not had combustion crash me since the last hotfix - but only in worlds generated after the hotfix. Are you still getting crashes in new worlds? Also - it only effects aggressive mobs so I don't think it would effect light bugs. I'd have to test it though... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 19 minutes ago, Shosuko said: I have not had combustion crash me since the last hotfix - but only in worlds generated after the hotfix. Are you still getting crashes in new worlds? Not sure what your doing to avoid the crash here no matter what I do using combustion seems to crash the entire server in my testing as well as others. 21 minutes ago, Shosuko said: Bernie tree is the only thing that needs work imo. The shadow tendrils does less damage BUT doesn't lock you in place. Using the lunar fire canon doesn't let you run around. IF you want to be more mobile, or don't want to deal with the aiming tendrils is a nice option. The shadow tendrils are only comparable in theory they do far less damage than the lunar flames and even then aiming the lunar flames isn't even hard against a horde it'll just melt them by turning into their direction and against a boss you can just tank the incoming hits or fire it off from a distance there's no real advantage to the shadow route and it really shows in the beta as there's been a lot of players this time and the only time I've seen someone use the shadow perk was to see how it worked. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, Mysterious box said: Not sure what your doing to avoid the crash here no matter what I do using combustion seems to crash the entire server in my testing as well as others. The shadow tendrils are only comparable in theory they do far less damage than the lunar flames and even then aiming the lunar flames isn't even hard against a horde it'll just melt them by turning into their direction and against a boss you can just tank the incoming hits or fire it off from a distance there's no real advantage to the shadow route and it really shows in the beta as there's been a lot of players this time and the only time I've seen someone use the shadow perk was to see how it worked. I mean an aoe spell is going to cook b/c its an aoe spell. The shadow tendrils is magic missiles, it auto targets and is guaranteed damage not even interrupting you. Its doing what its designed to do, its not a boss killer. idk combustion hasn't given me problems in a bit. I'll try some different mobs out and see though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenomeSquirrel Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 26 minutes ago, Shosuko said: Bernie tree is the only thing that needs work imo. The shadow tendrils does less damage BUT doesn't lock you in place. Using the lunar fire canon doesn't let you run around. IF you want to be more mobile, or don't want to deal with the aiming tendrils is a nice option. I have not had combustion crash me since the last hotfix - but only in worlds generated after the hotfix. Are you still getting crashes in new worlds? Also - it only effects aggressive mobs so I don't think it would effect light bugs. I'd have to test it though... I wasn't able to play before the hot fix, I posted a crash message in someone else's beta bugs thread, after a few crashes I moved onto other things barring that, I did want to test in spring where more things should be wet, just for comparison. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, Shosuko said: I mean an aoe spell is going to cook b/c its an aoe spell. The shadow tendrils is magic missiles, it auto targets and is guaranteed damage not even interrupting you. Its doing what its designed to do, its not a boss killer. idk combustion hasn't given me problems in a bit. I'll try some different mobs out and see though. Aoe spells tend to do less damage vs single target spells in games though and even 1 v 1 the shadow spell loses I don't see the point of picking the shadow spell just because it has homing capabilities where's the added value vs the lunar spell I don't think most people see one which is why the shadow alignment is so unpopular right now. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Nick- Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 What if there was a burnie skill where if he takes damage, stuffing falls out and becomes a little sentient bear that helps fight? Or like have the stuffing be mines or something. Would be pretty cool i think Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ0264 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1. let me pick-up Big Bernie, so I don't have to wait 2. make "Burning Bernie" require 1-2 less skill points to unlock (so 8 points down to 7-6 points) 3. give Shadow Fire 6 tendrils over the original 5 4. make Bernie's "Patch Up" skills slightly better 5. I don't think anyone is going to use "Faster" bernie (why not cheaper craft) 6. I don't quite understand the value of "Hot-Headed" bernie, since he attacks anything Willow fights (plus he will kill Glommer) 7. I'm very conflicted on "Controlled Fire" skills it allows you to use fire as a weapon, prevents ash drops and gives 25% damage/combustion more uses. However you lose fire spread/oven, sanity station, lighter refuel edit: you might be able to uses combustion as fire spread actually Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I wonder if shadow tendrils might be better if the bolts prioritize targets that are on fire? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeRoboButler Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Shosuko said: I wonder if shadow tendrils might be better if the bolts prioritize targets that are on fire? that would help a bit i imagine, at the moment 3-4 will hit a main target and 2-1 will just fly off in a random direction or not last long enough and fizzle out, kinda feels like the projectiles are 4 tendrils rather then 5 due to the erratic nature of the ability and the way the fire moves. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Shosuko said: I wonder if shadow tendrils might be better if the bolts prioritize targets that are on fire? Actually yes that sounds really good. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mima_ Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 20 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said: and this was more a curiosity thing, but does combustion kill bulbous lightbugs, not that I’d ask for special protection, but I’ve grown to like them as test glass cutters combustion spell is not work on non-hostile mobs so i guess, no. 17 hours ago, Shosuko said: I have not had combustion crash me since the last hotfix it still crashes if u agro non-hostile mobs then do the combustion spell. example u can crash if u agro volt goat/bee by hitting them then do the combustion spell. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, prettynuggets said: it still crashes if u agro non-hostile mobs then do the combustion spell. example u can crash if u agro volt goat/bee by hitting them then do the combustion spell. I literally just did combust on a bee both before and after aggroing it... but I'll try around some more. Its good if we can find why it crashes and report to Klei. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mima_ Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Shosuko said: I literally just did combust on a bee both before and after aggroing it... but I'll try around some more. Its good if we can find why it crashes and report to Klei. im not sure what it is the difference we do did u hit a single bee and all agro to u or have some that not agro to u in the area? cus maybe that be a good difference . what i tried is agro 1 goat and let the other that neutral(not agroed) in area of combustion spell .. it does crash. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiyss Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 17 hours ago, Mysterious box said: ot sure what your doing to avoid the crash here no matter what I do using combustion seems to crash the entire server in my testing as well as others. I made a new world with mods and another one without mods, and the second time I was hardly crashing. But I realised the crash most of the time happens when you have a low amount of embers. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 18 minutes ago, prettynuggets said: im not sure what it is the difference we do did u hit a single bee and all agro to u or have some that not agro to u in the area? cus maybe that be a good difference . what i tried is agro 1 goat and let the other that neutral(not agroed) in area of combustion spell .. it does crash. Hm, I did not have this issue with either bees or goats. I punched a single bee out of 15, and had most but not all of them aggro on me. I cast combustion and the bees that were aggrod were affected and the bees that were not aggroed were not, but no crash. What mods are you running? Are there any other things that might effect it? single / multiplayer, skill use? I'm just punching or using torch to attack and gain aggro, then casting combustion. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mima_ Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Shosuko said: What mods are you running? Are there any other things that might effect it? single / multiplayer, skill use? i believe my beta have no mod running. it was multiplayer and i dont host the game. i crashed and the server still running other people still in. it was attempt to play with no command really early in the game. first was bee 2nd was with the goat .. and i think i made conclusion because of how i failed to combust bee/goat as hostile creature but when i tried to combust them after agro-ing it was crashing on my side. note: i already gained and insight point with command in my own server. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, prettynuggets said: i believe my beta have no mod running. it was multiplayer and i dont host the game. i crashed and the server still running other people still in. it was attempt to play with no command really early in the game. first was bee 2nd was with the goat .. and i think i made conclusion because of how i failed to combust bee/goat as hostile creature but when i tried to combust them after agro-ing it was crashing on my side. Well, submit the crash reports of course - that will help Klei isolate it. There are a lot of factors that could be involved. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/152969-the-main-issues-willow-needs-solved-before-the-end-of-the-beta/#findComment-1685761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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