[Game Update] - 570654

[Lardee]

18 minutes ago, Valase said:

Nah, this is an OP gamebreaking exploit. as you are exploiting an oversight of the dev team to generate value out of thin air.

This game is littered with things that "generate value out of thin air".  Berry bushes generate value out of thin air. Bee hives generate value out of thin air. Spider dens generate value out of thin air. Meteors generate value out of thin air. I could go on forever.

What you're really arguing is that the value generated subjectively seems "too good" for the time/effort you're giving up to obtain said value and was not intended by the devs.  However, if you were to compare it to the alternatives that Wormwood + Wortox has at their disposal while really good, it's not broken OP unless you want to call bramble husks + killer bee hives broken OP.

[_zwb]

Carrats dropping souls comple removed the limit that Wortox can only have 20 souls. As long as you got a carrot and a Wormwood, you can generate souls for free at anytime and anywhere. Yes you get more souls quicker from bees or spiders, but those sources aren't mobile and they actually require armour and weapon, you need to actually engage with combat to get souls. Getting souls from carrats just discourages players from actually playing the game

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Berry bushes generate value out of thin air. Bee hives generate value out of thin air. Spider dens generate value out of thin air. Meteors generate value out of thin air. I could go on forever.

You need to fertilise berry bushes, you need to kill bee and spiers, tou need to mine rocks... They are not "free", you still have to actively go out and gather the resources yourself, meanwhile carrats just give you souls whenever you want with 0 effort

[Lardee]

11 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Carrats dropping souls comple removed the limit that Wortox can only have 20 souls. As long as you got a carrot and a Wormwood, you can generate souls for free at anytime and anywhere. Yes you get more souls quicker from bees or spiders, but those sources aren't mobile and they actually require armour and weapon, you need to actually engage with combat to get souls. Getting souls from carrats just discourages players from actually playing the game

You need to fertilise berry bushes, you need to kill bee and spiers, tou need to mine rocks... They are not "free", you still have to actively go out and gather the resources yourself, meanwhile carrats just give you souls whenever you want with 0 effort

1. It doesn't remove the limit. 

2. Requiring a Wormwood to coordinate with you is a major downside.

3. You've ignored the time both players waste by performing this technique.

4. Berry bushes don't need to be fertilized if they aren't replanted and berries turn into rot which can be used to refertilize. Killing Bees and Spiders with Bramble Husk is way easier than killing Carrat. You don't need to mine rocks that are destroyed by meteors.  Then there's twiggy trees, saplings, lureplants, kelp, like I said I could go on and on.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Lardee

[_zwb]

54 minutes ago, Lardee said:

1. It doesn't remove the limit. 

Of course it doesn't, but having this combo is just the same. You wouldn't worry about running out of souls even you're no where near a spider den or bee hive.

54 minutes ago, Lardee said:

2. Requiring a Wormwood to coordinate with you is a major downside.

That's true but it doesn't change the fact that this combo is too powerful.

54 minutes ago, Lardee said:

3. You've ignored the time both players waste by performing this technique.

If taking too long to perform can justify something overpowered, then I suggest de-patching the bug that allows you to create indestructible boats and let them fly through land, because they're taking much longer to perform(a couple seasons) and the you need more expensive materials(backtrek watch). If you've never heard of this bug, it allows you to dupe celestial altars, move anything anywhere including moving up on y axis, delete indestructible entities. Now does it make sense to you that this bug should be kept simply because it takes ages to set up?

54 minutes ago, Lardee said:

4. Berry bushes don't need to be fertilized if they aren't replanted and berries turn into rot which can be used to refertilize. Killing Bees and Spiders with Bramble Husk is way easier than killing Carrat. You don't need to mine rocks that are destroyed by meteors.  Then there's twiggy trees, saplings, lureplants, kelp, like I said I could go on and on.

Those free stuff you get are no match in quantity compared to infinite healing & living logs carrat souls provide. You get like, what, 10 rocks and berries? It's okay to have some "free" stuff, but this one is certainly too good for the price(nothing)

Edited August 29, 2023 by _zwb

[lakhnish]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

When they die no souls

Do they actually die though? When Carrats and Saladmanders die, they drop leafy meat. When the timer for wormwood's summons is up (or something else happens), they revert back to their plant form.

EDIT: I don't know why it copy pasted my message three times, sorry about that.

Edited August 29, 2023 by lakhnish

[Mysterious box]

32 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Do they actually die though? When Carrats and Saladmanders die, they drop leafy meat. When the timer for wormwood's summons is up (or something else happens), they revert back to their plant form.

While this argument holds up for the carrat this doesn't really hold up for the salamander since they were originally supposed to be to be the fire breathing variant we saw in the beta but it was changed to a normal one for gameplay conveniences so in theory it's in line with what it's supposed to be for both you could even explain it away with the idea that the dragonflies didn't have time to degrade to leafy meat.

[lakhnish]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

While this argument holds up for the carrat this doesn't really hold up for the salamander since they were originally supposed to be to be the fire breathing variant we saw in the beta but it was changed to a normal one for gameplay conveniences so in theory it's in line with what it's supposed to be for both you could even explain it away with the idea that the dragonflies didn't have time to degrade to leafy meat.

But during the beta, they still had a timer to them and they would revert to dragonfruit, no?

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

But during the beta, they still had a timer to them and they would revert to dragonfruit, no?

I mean yea but I'd assume the fact they revert has to do with them being incomplete as they're given life from a small amount of Wormwood's life force and the moon's power.

[Lardee]

4 hours ago, _zwb said:

Of course it doesn't, but having this combo is just the same. You wouldn't worry about running out of souls even you're no where near a spider den or bee hive.

That's true but it doesn't change the fact that this combo is too powerful.

If taking too long to perform can justify something overpowered, then I suggest de-patching the bug that allows you to create indestructible boats and let them fly through land, because they're taking much longer to perform(a couple seasons) and the you need more expensive materials(backtrek watch). If you've never heard of this bug, it allows you to dupe celestial altars, move anything anywhere including moving up on y axis, delete indestructible entities. Now does it make sense to you that this bug should be kept simply because it takes ages to set up?

Those free stuff you get are no match in quantity compared to infinite healing & living logs carrat souls provide. You get like, what, 10 rocks and berries? It's okay to have some "free" stuff, but this one is certainly too good for the price(nothing)

1. Both Wormwood and Wortox having to waste a minute is nothing like exceeding Wortox's 20 soul cap. There's an enormous difference between 2 players giving up time in order to obtain souls and having over 20 souls in your inventory.

2. Techniques that cannot be done solo and require combining the unique abilities of different characters should be powerful, just not broken.

3. I didn't argue that all bugs, no matter how much they break the aesthetics of the game, should be warranted.

4. I respect this argument a lot more than the original one which was: "it's broken OP because you can create things out of thin air".

 

Although I disagree with the notion that it's broken, I don't think it's unreasonable to think it is. The thing I don't like is people who have never tried it out oversimplifying it by ignoring the downsides.  I've actually tried it out in multiple games so I know how it functions in practice and in practice, it's really strong.  However if you've got killer bee/bee hives, it just makes the game more comfortable and incentivizes you to coordinate with Wormwood more instead of going off on your own with a bunch of Bramble Husks in your inventory.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Lardee

[Mr Giggio]

On 8/28/2023 at 10:44 PM, Lardee said:

allowing players to do really cool things by combining the abilities of multiple characters should be encouraged

Wormwood + Wortox has a really good synergy indeed and that is one of the most interesting combos in the whole game for me. Its unicque, its different and its fun. Allowing to rely in carrats doesnt make it "broken" or whatever, they were strong enough already. One bee queen fight usin husks and u could kill her day 3-5 and getting a ton of livin logs in the way doing it. I just dont get why this have to be fixed but allowing other reaaaaally broken features to stay around FOR YEARS like the knight shadow pieces mass farm exploit with catapults or gunpowder. That gives resources enough to have more nightmare fuel than a whole server could be able to spend. A bazilion dark swords to never worry about weapons anymore. And its here to stay apparently. That for me is broken. But still here. And u can do it ALONE.

[MondayNight]

Some people selectively loving game-breaking exploits, justifying them even on-and-on. Then also criticizing other, maybe not-so game-breaking exploits. "My cheat is not so cheaty as your cheat, yours should be fixed, mine not!". At least I for one admit it: some cheats can be quite fun, for "lulzies" moments, and some allow "good income" farms from "decent investments". Yet, on principle, all cheats/exploits should be removed. Would that effectively "kill" long-runs' functional projects (aka farms relying on pathfinder exploit, for example)? Absolutely. If anything, KLei "got lucky" with this pathfinder issue occurring and left "as was" that made their game so entertaining on late-game the most. Else, aside "chillax play-sessions", worlds out there in server population would reset around 100-150 in-game days and that's that for DST "shelf life" & implicit popularity.

[Jakepeng99]

Abigail still drops a soul and that is even op-er!

[gamehun20]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

Abigail still drops a soul and that is even op-er!

How

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, gamehun20 said:

How

You can spawn her instantly after she dies