Walter should make more ammo per craft

[Jakepeng99]

Everyone knows his ammo is not that strong in combat with that slow attack speed, but they are also extremely inefficent. I will show the math for the rounds. The ammo amount per craft could be increased to 15 or 20 and here is why:

Gold Rounds vs Spear

They do the same damage so i will compare these two. 

▪A spear has 150 uses, and 34 damage, at the cost of 1 flint, 2 twigs and 1 rope. The total damage you will get out of a spear can be shown by multiplying the damage by uses, giving 5,100 damage.

▪To get the same total damage output as the spear, you would need 150 gold rounds, which will be a very costly 15 gold vs using 1 flint, 3 twigs and a rope for a spear.

Keep in mind the slower attack speed often grants lower dps. Even if the ammo gave 20 a craft, the spear would often be much better. They could make the gold rounds have a special ability like bouncing to another target, all ammo types could have a special ability like this so they will be more worth, and fun using over a standard melee weapon.

Marble Rounds vs Darksword and Tentacle Spike

Tentacle spikes cost nothing and are often found for free in swamps, so i included the darksword aswell.

▪A Tentacle spike has 100 uses, and deals 51 damage. It is able to be found lying around in swamps from dead tentacles. It is able to deal a total of 5,100 damage. (Same as spear but 50% faster)

▪A Darksword has 100 uses, and deals 68 damage with the downside of a -20m sainity drain. It costs 1 living log and 5 nightmare fuel. It is able to deal a total of 6,800 damage.

▪To get the same damage outpout as a Spike using marble rounds, you will need 100 rounds(10 marble), and the darksword will blow that out of the water with more damage and efficency.

Getting a marble farm going takes aaagggees, and the only fast and efficent ways to mine marble is using Maxwell, Woodie, or Wurt (Walter with a merm disguise is a really good synergy since he can do it himself!). Bearger and the forest stalker is an option but you either need to kill fuelweaver or wait an entire year. All the efficent options for farming alot of marble are either character exclusive or late game. You could use gunpowder, though that adds more price and resources to the already expensive and inefficent marble rounds.

Cursed Rounds vs Thulicite club

It is much harder to calculate these fully.

▪Cursed rounds cost 6 nightmare fuel and one full thulicite(6 fragments) for 60 rounds. They deal 51 damage with a 50% of a shadow tentacle which may miss. 

▪Thulicite club costs 4 thulicite, 4 nightmare fuel and 3 living logs for 250 uses. It deals 59.5 damage, grants a 10% speed boost and has the 20% chance of a tentacle. This being a melee weapon means enemies are more likely to stay in the tentacle range.

Cursed rounds could be increased to 30 per craft with a power boost since they are that inefficent and much weaker compared to the club with 250 uses, 59.5 damage and a 10% speed boost at the cost of 3 living logs, 4 thulicite and 4 nightmare fuel. Yes they use living logs but they are way more worth it.

Pebbles

Make them deal 25 damage along with the 20 a craft, they stink lol and are technically more expensive than gold rounds due to pig king. At least let then kill birds.

 

Summary

His slingshot is too inefficent and weak to be more than a tool for bird killing, aggro pulling and cheese. But it can be more than that in his skill tree, hoping all his rounds become more special. Also i really hope that if they made Walter be able to make more ammo per craft, they would not lock it to a skill tree, but make it base kit instead since that would not be ideal.

[flamboyant wolf]

Absolutely.

Slingshot taking so much resources is just bad, especially in a multiplayer setting. 

[Waitdire]

41 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Cursed Rounds vs Thulicite club

Club has 200 uses. And cursed rounds have 50% of shadow tentacle.

[Jakepeng99]

15 minutes ago, Waitdire said:

Club has 200 uses. And cursed rounds have 50% of shadow tentacle.

The club has 250 uses, it was changed in a qol update and the wiki is still wrong. Test it in game.

 

I will fix the cursed rounds.

[Waitdire]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The club has 250 uses, it was changed in a qol update and the wiki is still wrong. Test it in game.

It has been changed from 150 to 200 uses. I don't want check game files right now, but I checked the weapons in the game, 20 hits is 10% of the weapons, respectively, a maximum of 200 hits can be made.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Waitdire said:

It has been changed from 150 to 200 uses. I don't want check game files right now, but I checked the weapons in the game, 20 hits is 10% of the weapons, respectively, a maximum of 200 hits can be made.

Either way, it still shows cursed rounds are too inefficent.

[Mysterious box]

I've said it before and I'll say it again despite people telling me it'd be too op. What I feel is the most reasonable way to do it is to give him 40 rounds per craft with a cap of 200 rounds per slot.

A large time waster for Walter is the sheer amount of time he takes to collect his ammo then the additional amount of time it takes for his slow fire rate to actually kill something. I've never understood the logic of the slingshot being cheap to match a spear you need 15 gold and 3 inventory slots. A thulecite club which isn't even really matching it since a thulecite club has 8.5 more damage but that aside to match it you need 20 marble or 20 nightmare fuel and 20 thuelcite fragments. That also taking up 4 inventory slots.

Walter gets a really bad deal when it comes to his slingshot and ranged combat and the ammo situation is something that's always bothered me about him even way back. I feel like it's far more reasonable with my propsed 40 rounds per craft and 200 per slot idea specifically because assuming 200 is a full weapon's worth of damage his slingshot would cost 5 gold, 5 marble, or 5 nightmare fuel and thulecite fragments at a time which is far more reasonable for such a underpowered weapon if not still quite expensive for a weapon when compared to most others.

[loopuleasa]

Walter's slingshot is the least interesting aspect of Walter for me.

I like his entire kit of quirks. I just can't wait to see how it gets expanded in his tech tree.

[Castiliano]

Hey, thanks for studying and bringing this issue more clearly! There are some aspects of the game where the math just doesn't make sense.

[Jandri]

I think the stone pebbles should definitely not kill birds. Maybe a buff on the attack speed or damage of only the marbles.

He may be weaker than many other characters but why not to ask for the others to be nerfed instead?

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

I think the stone pebbles should definitely not kill birds. Maybe a buff on the attack speed or damage of only the marbles.

He may be weaker than many other characters but why not to ask for the others to be nerfed instead?

Pebbles in their current state are completely useless and that's saying something considering how cheap rocks are it's basically like if punching were to cost hunger.

Largely the big issue with the slingshot is that outside of cheese it's just bad from all angles as a tool and a weapon.

[Jandri]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Pebbles in their current state are completely useless and that's saying something considering how cheap rocks are it's basically like if punching were to cost hunger.

Largely the big issue with the slingshot is that outside of cheese it's just bad from all angles as a tool and a weapon.

You can kill butterflies, rabbits or gobblers (yes you already can without a slingshot but not as fast), even tougher mobs like clockwork knights (safer than kiting) or easily provoke a koalephant with rock pebbles.

If your objective is to kill birds, with 40 gold nuggets and a slingshot with 60 gold rounds you would use 3 inventory spaces and kill 460 of them, if you were to carry 40 planks, 40 coal, 40 silk and a boomerang you would use 7 inventory spaces and kill 410 (if i am correct). With 5 gold and an empty slingshot you will use 2 inventory spaces and kill 50, with 4 planks, 4 coal, 4 silk, 1 boomerang (you have to carry one when hunting birds anyway) you will kill 50 and use 4 inventory spaces. And the boomerang requires an alchemy engine while the gold rounds only require a science machine, 3 different ingredients, and can come back and hit you.

It is not fair to say he sucks at fighting when he is not supposed to fight a lot. Do not compare him to Wolfgang or Wendy, compare him to Wilson or Willow.

The slingshot is not the only thing he has either.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Jandri said:

You can kill butterflies, rabbits or gobblers (yes you already can without a slingshot but not as fast), even tougher mobs like clockwork knights (safer than kiting) or easily provoke a koalephant with rock pebbles.

Gold rounds does this better and uses less inventory slots why would you use a slightly more expensive resource to do less damage.

 

3 hours ago, Jandri said:

If your objective is to kill birds, with 40 gold nuggets and a slingshot with 60 gold rounds you would use 3 inventory spaces and kill 460 of them, if you were to carry 40 planks, 40 coal, 40 silk and a boomerang you would use 7 inventory spaces and kill 410 (if i am correct). With 5 gold and an empty slingshot you will use 2 inventory spaces and kill 50, with 4 planks, 4 coal, 4 silk, 1 boomerang (you have to carry one when hunting birds anyway) you will kill 50 and use 4 inventory spaces. And the boomerang requires an alchemy engine while the gold rounds only require a science machine, 3 different ingredients, and can come back and hit you.

It is not fair to say he sucks at fighting when he is not supposed to fight a lot. Do not compare him to Wolfgang or Wendy, compare him to Wilson or Willow.

The slingshot is not the only thing he has either.

It's entirely fair to say that because why in the world would you make your primary food source birds? It's not a particularly fast or efficient food source and there are other safe options. Or are you making blowdarts? Because in that case Wickerbottom is a much better option.

Also you know what else is a safer way to fight mobs that doesn't require using a bad weapon/tool? Followers infact we have a character who has some with infinite loyalty and one of those followers just so happens to have a ranged attack that can mimic most of the utility the slingshot at none of the cost.

Your saying I'm just comparing him to them but I've said many times the slingshot fails in all areas on what it's trying to do.

It's not cheap because building up his ammo is very time consuming.

It's not safer because taking sanity damage during actual dangerous fights is far more dangerous than moderate amounts of hp damage in those fights and using followers will always be safer than using the slingshot barring cheese.

Freeze rounds are just a worse ice staff and they cost more too adding insult to injury.

Slowdown rounds only work in the context that the slingshot is a good combat tool but it's not and it suffers from being laughably expensive for what it does. It costs 1 purple gem and 1 moon rock to lower a enemy's speed by 1/3 for 30 seconds up to 10 times. While Maxwell's shadow prison completely immobilizes enemies for just 1/5 of a nightmare fuel.

Don't take this as me hating the slingshot however, because conceptually I love it but there's no areas it shines in it just kinda exists.

Also there's no such thing as a character whose not supposed to fight alot as combat is a large part of the game heck even Willow is a combat based character due to Bernie. To be clear however I never said the slingshot was the only thing he has I'm very much aware of his kit as it's a character I've played a fair bit but you should be aware the slingshot is the main draw for him since it's his most unique aspect even if it's quite bad.

 

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, Jandri said:

You can kill butterflies, rabbits or gobblers (yes you already can without a slingshot but not as fast), even tougher mobs like clockwork knights (safer than kiting) or easily provoke a koalephant with rock pebbles.

If your objective is to kill birds, with 40 gold nuggets and a slingshot with 60 gold rounds you would use 3 inventory spaces and kill 460 of them, if you were to carry 40 planks, 40 coal, 40 silk and a boomerang you would use 7 inventory spaces and kill 410 (if i am correct). With 5 gold and an empty slingshot you will use 2 inventory spaces and kill 50, with 4 planks, 4 coal, 4 silk, 1 boomerang (you have to carry one when hunting birds anyway) you will kill 50 and use 4 inventory spaces. And the boomerang requires an alchemy engine while the gold rounds only require a science machine, 3 different ingredients, and can come back and hit you.

It is not fair to say he sucks at fighting when he is not supposed to fight a lot. Do not compare him to Wolfgang or Wendy, compare him to Wilson or Willow.

The slingshot is not the only thing he has either.

I sure love spending around 15x the resources for much less dps, it should be equal to normal weapons and not straight up way worse. I don't know why you would want his advertised main perk to remain useless compared to a mere spear besides for killing birds and drawing aggro from very specific mobs. A tentacle spike has more dps than cursed rounds and do it for waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper.

 

If killing butterflies, rabbits, gobblers and arggroing koalas is 4 out of 5 of the great uses according to you, then you have further proven how bad it is since all of these things can be done way cheaper and easier. Straight up punching gobblers and butterflies, traps for rabbits, and pushing koalas to the edge (Not easier this time for koalas but the slingshot is not needed).

[Jandri]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Gold rounds does this better and uses less inventory slots why would you use a slightly more expensive resource to do less damage.

 

It's entirely fair to say that because why in the world would you make your primary food source birds? It's not a particularly fast or efficient food source and there are other safe options. Or are you making blowdarts? Because in that case Wickerbottom is a much better option.

Also you know what else is a safer way to fight mobs that doesn't require using a bad weapon/tool? Followers infact we have a character who has some with infinite loyalty and one of those followers just so happens to have a ranged attack that can mimic most of the utility the slingshot at none of the cost.

Your saying I'm just comparing him to them but I've said many times the slingshot fails in all areas on what it's trying to do.

It's not cheap because building up his ammo is very time consuming.

It's not safer because taking sanity damage during actual dangerous fights is far more dangerous than moderate amounts of hp damage in those fights and using followers will always be safer than using the slingshot barring cheese.

Freeze rounds are just a worse ice staff and they cost more too adding insult to injury.

Slowdown rounds only work in the context that the slingshot is a good combat tool but it's not and it suffers from being laughably expensive for what it does. It costs 1 purple gem and 1 moon rock to lower a enemy's speed by 1/3 for 30 seconds up to 10 times. While Maxwell's shadow prison completely immobilizes enemies for just 1/5 of a nightmare fuel.

Don't take this as me hating the slingshot however, because conceptually I love it but there's no areas it shines in it just kinda exists.

Also there's no such thing as a character whose not supposed to fight alot as combat is a large part of the game heck even Willow is a combat based character due to Bernie. To be clear however I never said the slingshot was the only thing he has I'm very much aware of his kit as it's a character I've played a fair bit but you should be aware the slingshot is the main draw for him since it's his most unique aspect even if it's quite bad.

 

Walter is meant to spend time outside of base (tent, campfire perks, etc.), so yes you could live off bird meat and some berries until krampus attacks if you don't want to fight it (or just fight it). And to make blow darts, you would need to kill winter-specific birds anyway (and hounds, maybe you want to keep your teeth for something else).

Gold is cheap, if you trade your useless trinkets you get from digging graves or searching tumbleweeds to the pk you will sit on tons of gold, not to mention the trinkets from the ruins. And if you are short on gold and food and near pk you can trade to hunt a few meats before you continue your journey.

It is safer because you don't loose sanity to the insanity aura unless you get hit and are less likely to get hit. Once you are low on both health and sanity you are screwed, yes, but it is his drawback, you should not let it happen (unless you are at lunar island or grotto).

Wurt can get merms to follow her but it's her special thing, the merm huts are almost always in the swamp and building more huts is simply more expensive than getting ammo. You can get pig followers to help you while you shoot at monsters too, like almost any other character.

About the special ammo, they aren't that good but you can still probably make use of them. Many other character exclusive items are not that good either anyway like some of Wendy's potions or Wolfgang's dumbbells.

I like this character a lot too, he has something special. Maybe he is my favorite one. I feel like he is still better than Wilson and no character should be way way better than him.

And Willow... Do people really use Bernie outside of fighting shadow creatures? Off topic but she lacks something good to put on the table, most think the same (i bet you do)

4 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I sure love spending around 15x the resources for much less dps, it should be equal to normal weapons and not straight up way worse. I don't know why you would want his advertised main perk to remain useless compared to a mere spear besides for killing birds and drawing aggro from very specific mobs. A tentacle spike has more dps than cursed rounds and do it for waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper.

 

If killing butterflies, rabbits, gobblers and arggroing koalas is 4 out of 5 of the great uses according to you, then you have further proven how bad it is since all of these things can be done way cheaper and easier. Straight up punching gobblers and butterflies, traps for rabbits, and pushing koalas to the edge (Not easier this time for koalas but the slingshot is not needed).

You can still use a spear, you can just not hit a bird with a spear. If you take a few hits you would have lost sanity but still wouldn't have lost sanity to almost anything else, it is not like you are in a really bad situation if you have not lost a lot of HPs and make healing yourself a priority. The cursed or slow-down rounds are not good, but you are going to use mainly the gold and marble ones if you play Walter, that's is. You could go to the ruins and craft almost useless thulecite medaillons or lazy forager too but who does outside of very specific uses?

I don't think the slingshot is his main advertised perk, the main thing I remember from the animated short is Woby. And I don't think he has a main perk. Webber has befriending spider as his main perk and that's is (for example), there would never be a thread where people argue if something else is his main perk like there are with Walter. Woby is really good too, she is like a beefalo but cheap to feed, she can't attack at melee but you can attack from on top of her with the slingshot so you can stay away from the enemies while attacking. And she has storage and is less annoying than chester because the mobs don't attack her (and you can have both).

Killing butterflies, rabbits, etc. is not all what you can do with the slingshot, it is what the stone pebbles do. Once you have a gold reserve you will be crafting gold rounds. Killing a clockwork knight is like 25 gold rounds, which is 2 gold nuggets and a half, killing a treeguard is maybe 6 or 7 gold nuggets. And you will not get hit, may you be good or not at kiting. Then there are the marbles, that do the same damage as tentacle spike and not a lot less than dark sword, you attack at half the attack speed but dodge easier. When I play as other characters, I happen to walk by some marble on the floor (statues destroyed by a rook, earthquakes, somebody used a touchstone) and think "nah, i don't need this marble", just like you wouldn't pick every tentacle spike you see. And if you could just use a darksword or whatever melee weapon you want if you want the fight to be faster or don't want to waste marble.

I don't think he is strong compared to many other characters, but I don't want him to be too strong. I want the game to kill me. Something like doubling the damage of all types of ammo would be way too much I think.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

Gold is cheap, if you trade your useless trinkets you get from digging graves or searching tumbleweeds to the pk you will sit on tons of gold, not to mention the trinkets from the ruins. And if you are short on gold and food and near pk you can trade to hunt a few meats before you continue your journey.

Gold is a cheap resource but the slingshot is expensive keep in mind that in order to get hits equivalent to even the most basic weapons you need 15 gold that's not cheap not even close.

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

Walter is meant to spend time outside of base (tent, campfire perks, etc.), so yes you could live off bird meat and some berries until krampus attacks if you don't want to fight it (or just fight it). And to make blow darts, you would need to kill winter-specific birds anyway (and hounds, maybe you want to keep your teeth for something else).

So if you intentionally play bad he's useful is what your saying? Because there's no reason for any character to never leave base it could be argued that Walter would spend less time outside of base than most since he can get from point a to point b far faster than most so if your just randomly avoiding base your just self sabotaging yourself.

 

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

It is safer because you don't loose sanity to the insanity aura unless you get hit and are less likely to get hit. Once you are low on both health and sanity you are screwed, yes, but it is his drawback, you should not let it happen (unless you are at lunar island or grotto).

The amount of time spent in fights means your more likely to get caught in hound and worm waves making fights more difficult also it's not like the slingshot doesn't require you to kite unless your cheesing a fight but if your already good enough to kite with a slingshot you should already be good enough at normal kiting making the slingshot just not a good option overall. The slingshot dragging out fights just increases the odds of something going wrong.

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

Wurt can get merms to follow her but it's her special thing, the merm huts are almost always in the swamp and building more huts is simply more expensive than getting ammo. You can get pig followers to help you while you shoot at monsters too, like almost any other character.

The problem is if your already using followers to fight they're already helping to pull aggro so the slingshot is once again useless. Also you brought up Wurt but what about webber his followers are just straight up safer than using the slingshot and they have ranged attack that can do most of what the slingshot does.

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

About the special ammo, they aren't that good but you can still probably make use of them. Many other character exclusive items are not that good either anyway like some of Wendy's potions or Wolfgang's dumbbells.

Weird comparsions Wendy's potions allow her to fight bosses and survive even higher hp hordes. Wolfgang's dumbells are why people say Wolfgang is a better ranged combat character than Walter not only do that do massive damage, don't have excessive windup, but they also have amazing crowd control abilities and utility.

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

I like this character a lot too, he has something special. Maybe he is my favorite one. I feel like he is still better than Wilson and no character should be way way better than him.

I like Walter too but I'm not gonna pretend there's something good where there isn't. 

 

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

And Willow... Do people really use Bernie outside of fighting shadow creatures? Off topic but she lacks something good to put on the table, most think the same (i bet you do)

Yes Bernie works as a team bone helm on boss fights, is the only follower who can effortlessly hold it's own in nearly every boss fight. And it's taunt ability  helps in killing many strong enemies. He's considered the strongest part of her kit which annoys people because she's supposed to be a pyromaniac.

To summarize my main issue is if you have to go out of your way to intentionality make bad survival choices to make the slingshot seem worthwhile it clearly isn't worthwhile.

[Jakepeng99]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Gold is a cheap resource but the slingshot is expensive keep in mind that in order to get hits equivalent to even the most basic weapons you need 15 gold that's not cheap not even close.

So if you intentionally play bad he's useful is what your saying? Because there's no reason for any character to never leave base it could be argued that Walter would spend less time outside of base than most since he can get from point a to point b far faster than most so if your just randomly avoiding base your just self sabotaging yourself.

 

The amount of time spent in fights means your more likely to get caught in hound and worm waves making fights more difficult also it's not like the slingshot doesn't require you to kite unless your cheesing a fight but if your already good enough to kite with a slingshot you should already be good enough at normal kiting making the slingshot just not a good option overall. The slingshot dragging out fights just increases the odds of something going wrong.

The problem is if your already using followers to fight they're already helping to pull aggro so the slingshot is once again useless. Also you brought up Wurt but what about webber his followers are just straight up safer than using the slingshot and they have ranged attack that can do most of what the slingshot does.

Weird comparsions Wendy's potions allow her to fight bosses and survive even higher hp hordes. Wolfgang's dumbells are why people say Wolfgang is a better ranged combat character than Walter not only do that do massive damage, don't have excessive windup, but they also have amazing crowd control abilities and utility.

I like Walter too but I'm not gonna pretend there's something good where there isn't. 

 

Yes Bernie works as a team bone helm on boss fights, is the only follower who can effortlessly hold it's own in nearly every boss fight. And it's taunt ability  helps in killing many strong enemies. He's considered the strongest part of her kit which annoys people because she's supposed to be a pyromaniac.

To summarize my main issue is if you have to go out of your way to intentionality make bad survival choices to make the slingshot seem worthwhile it clearly isn't worthwhile.

I don't think Jandri will ever change their mind. Walter's slingshot is like if Woodie's axe, Lucy, was just an expensive and overall worse sidegrade to a normal Axe.

[Jandri]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Gold is a cheap resource but the slingshot is expensive keep in mind that in order to get hits equivalent to even the most basic weapons you need 15 gold that's not cheap not even close.

This is true if you want to fight real enemies with gold rounds, but most people will just use gold rounds to trade 1 gold for 5 morsels ans 5 feather which isn't bad, 10 morsels if you use them to kill rabbits, or 5 monster meat, 2.5 nightmare fuel and 2.5 beard hairs (more or less) if you kill shadow rabbits. If 1 gold gave 100 gold rounds, you would get 100 easy kills on rabbits or birds out of a single gold. The only boost that would not affect this would be a boost on his rate of fire.

If you want to use a tentacle spike and a football helmet, you can totally do it and probably should, you just have to remember to heal quickly and restore sanity.

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So if you intentionally play bad he's useful is what your saying? Because there's no reason for any character to never leave base it could be argued that Walter would spend less time outside of base than most since he can get from point a to point b far faster than most so if your just randomly avoiding base your just self sabotaging yourself.

If you are playing in a team, Walter is the better one to send on expeditions outside of the base that don't involve tough fights (maybe you could send Wortox if it's just a round trip). Woby's speed also allows to pick grass, twigs and berries faster when you are going through savanas or grasslands.

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The amount of time spent in fights means your more likely to get caught in hound and worm waves making fights more difficult also it's not like the slingshot doesn't require you to kite unless your cheesing a fight but if your already good enough to kite with a slingshot you should already be good enough at normal kiting making the slingshot just not a good option overall. The slingshot dragging out fights just increases the odds of something going wrong.

The hounds part is true, but wouldn't having the marble deal as much DPS as a dark sword be overpowered? And you still have to kite but it is easier, especially against slow mobs like treeguards or mobs that run away like pigs. And having a slingshot doesn't mean you can't use melee weapons.

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem is if your already using followers to fight they're already helping to pull aggro so the slingshot is once again useless. Also you brought up Wurt but what about webber his followers are just straight up safer than using the slingshot and they have ranged attack that can do most of what the slingshot does.

If you shoot gold rounds at an enemy while some pigs are attacking it too, the fight will go faster. One gold round deals the same damage as a pig and it is not like pigs land hits often due to the way they kite.

To get spitters as Webber, you would have to find one underground. You are not guaranteed to find some quickly, so they are not available from the start, ond then you have to craft switcherdoodles. And the main use of the slingshot is killing birds and rabbits, which you cannot do with splitters I believe.

But yes, Webber is stronger than Walter, especially since his spiders do not require to be fed anymore and will not attack other players, or he can just transform them to any type of spider. Do you want every character to become stronger and stronger, and never the difficulty to be increased instead?

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Weird comparsions Wendy's potions allow her to fight bosses and survive even higher hp hordes. Wolfgang's dumbells are why people say Wolfgang is a better ranged combat character than Walter not only do that do massive damage, don't have excessive windup, but they also have amazing crowd control abilities and utility.

Most people will always use the healing potions with Wendy and I can't think of a situation where the speed one would be useful. If you are going to throw golden dumbbells as Wolgang you are not as cost-efficient as Walter using gold rounds, and I believe nobody uses the thermal stone dumbbell he's got from his skill tree and people prefer the ice one over the fire one. These characters are better overall than Walter, sure, but they do have craftable items that are less usefull than other.

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I like Walter too but I'm not gonna pretend there's something good where there isn't.

His playstyle makes him different from the others. Just after they released Walter, I was only playing as him. I am not saying that he is a top tier character, he is bad at fighting bosses outside of cheesing, that's true. He is good as he is now for players that aren't complete noobs but aren't really good either, and even in a deerclops fight for example, if you don't take too many hits, you will lose sanity slower than the other character (because you lose no sanity to the aura). My point is, I don't want the characters to be too strong or then there won't be difficulty anymore. I'd rather have some other nerfed instead of Walter buffed.

And it is likely that every characters will get a skill tree. If Walter gets one, I would take new cool boy scout perks rather than more damage with the slingshot.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Yes Bernie works as a team bone helm on boss fights, is the only follower who can effortlessly hold it's own in nearly every boss fight. And it's taunt ability  helps in killing many strong enemies. He's considered the strongest part of her kit which annoys people because she's supposed to be a pyromaniac.

Well, maybe I will play her next time. There always is someone that appeals me more.

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

To summarize my main issue is if you have to go out of your way to intentionality make bad survival choices to make the slingshot seem worthwhile it clearly isn't worthwhile.

Going out of your way is a half of what the game is about. You could just stay indefinitely in your base next to a field of tooth traps once you have farms and spiders, especially since the game is becoming easier each time outside of fighting new bosses.

.

My conclusion, and the only important thing I actually wanted to say, is :

Walter is not a good character, actually he probably is one of the worse. I could accept him becoming stronger, and this is probably going to happen anyway. I just won't ask for this. But he is one of the most if not the most unique character. The other bad characters are boring in comparison with him.

And he is not that bad either. He fears getting hurt, why would he be a good fighter? He has more things, not only the slingshot. He is still better than Wilson, I don't want him to be super strong, and the characters tend to become stronger and stronger, not the other way.

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, Jandri said:

This is true if you want to fight real enemies with gold rounds, but most people will just use gold rounds to trade 1 gold for 5 morsels ans 5 feather which isn't bad, 10 morsels if you use them to kill rabbits, or 5 monster meat, 2.5 nightmare fuel and 2.5 beard hairs (more or less) if you kill shadow rabbits. If 1 gold gave 100 gold rounds, you would get 100 easy kills on rabbits or birds out of a single gold. The only boost that would not affect this would be a boost on his rate of fire.

In what world would this be more useful than establishing basic food producing resources that generate food semi passively or carrying around longer lasting foods?

52 minutes ago, Jandri said:

If you are playing in a team, Walter is the better one to send on expeditions outside of the base that don't involve tough fights (maybe you could send Wortox if it's just a round trip). Woby's speed also allows to pick grass, twigs and berries faster when you are going through savanas or grasslands.

If your group is relying on Walter to gather grass, twigs, and berries instead of digging these resources up you are once again intentionally playing badly in order to give the illusion of value.

Also Walter's survival skills are not useful enough to make him a dedicated choice for travel the only thing going for him in this aspect is speed but wx can be faster and so can a beefalo tamer. I'm aware he has things like campfire stories and the tent but the stories are better for a group and the tent can be replaced by food when your traveling.

57 minutes ago, Jandri said:

If you shoot gold rounds at an enemy while some pigs are attacking it too, the fight will go faster. One gold round deals the same damage as a pig and it is not like pigs land hits often due to the way they kite.

There in lies the issue if you have followers it will go even faster if you fight alongside them with a spear. Even with their slower hits they can pull aggro if you need breathing room defeating the need to even use the slingshot.

 

59 minutes ago, Jandri said:

To get spitters as Webber, you would have to find one underground. You are not guaranteed to find some quickly, so they are not available from the start, ond then you have to craft switcherdoodles. And the main use of the slingshot is killing birds and rabbits, which you cannot do with splitters I believe.

You can very much kill them with spitters just need to attack cancel they'll kill them just as fast as a slingshot. Something your overlooking is you need to constantly get ammo with the slingshot while the spitter is infinite until death which is already unlikely because of nurses. You don't even need to craft spitters as if you pick them up they detach from their dens allowing more to spawn.

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

But yes, Webber is stronger than Walter, especially since his spiders do not require to be fed anymore and will not attack other players, or he can just transform them to any type of spider. Do you want every character to become stronger and stronger, and never the difficulty to be increased instead?

No I want every character's main niche to be useful however and the slingshot doesn't have that.

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

The hounds part is true, but wouldn't having the marble deal as much DPS as a dark sword be overpowered? And you still have to kite but it is easier, especially against slow mobs like treeguards or mobs that run away like pigs. And having a slingshot doesn't mean you can't use melee weapons.

You realize marble has the dps of a spear right? You spend marble to do damage comparable grass and twigs. With your defense being ah well with it you can kill the easiest mini boss in the game with a kiting pattern easier than a spider warrior. Basically what your saying is it makes it easier to kill enemies noone is having trouble fighting without a slingshot. How is that useful? It's like calling a axe an amazing weapon because it can techincally kill enemies.

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

Most people will always use the healing potions with Wendy and I can't think of a situation where the speed one would be useful. If you are going to throw golden dumbbells as Wolgang you are not as cost-efficient as Walter using gold rounds, and I believe nobody uses the thermal stone dumbbell he's got from his skill tree and people prefer the ice one over the fire one. These characters are better overall than Walter, sure, but they do have craftable items that are less usefull than other.

For Wendy people use the night potion, the healing potion, and the damage reflection potions the most but the speed one is sometimes used when people want to be cheap with their light as it'll make abi fast enough to keep you from dying to darkness.

As for the dumbell it's widely accepted as very useful as it condenses your inventory since you won't need a thermal stone while your using one. The fire and ice dumbells offer far better crowd control than any of Walter's special rounds. The key thing is they're useful in realistic situations that you didn't intentionally back yourself into.

It's not even about Walter being a bad character it's that he doesn't have one main good perk only side ones that are ok with his primary perk being bad. It's like if Wanda's alarming clock was bad she still would offer good things but she'd end up feeling lacking in the day to day.

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

Going out of your way is a half of what the game is about. You could just stay indefinitely in your base next to a field of tooth traps once you have farms and spiders, especially since the game is becoming easier each time outside of fighting new bosses.

You go out of your way to make things better for yourself not worse though which is what your suggesting to make Walter's slingshot matter.

The thing I feel your overlooking his unique aspects are his slingshot and his downsides everything else is completely copy able by other characters with minimal effort. But the slingshot is bad in every angle noone is looking for a overpowered character they just want to play Walter and feel like you're not handicapping yourself for using him which is the current experience he gives as he doesn't accel in a casual player or veteran's hands nor does he ever make you feel rewarded for the effort you put in. Much like Wes he can do good things but your just gonna have a harder time doing them in most scenarios than pretty much everyone else.

 The main issue with people who defend the slingshot is they leave out the context.

The slingshot makes quick work of enemies who can't fight back...but they're enemies even most casual players aren't struggling with. 

The slingshot is a really good tool...if you intentionally don't establish your resources.

The slingshot and immunity to sanity auras is poweful...if your a kiting God who doesn't get end up making more mistakes due to dragging out fights far longer than they would be normally.

[Jandri]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

In what world would this be more useful than establishing basic food producing resources that generate food semi passively or carrying around longer lasting foods?

Are you talking about cheesy farms that use statues, catapults or that exploit the behavior of some mobs that will try to reach food left on the ground?

It isn't hard to kill birds while you are doing something else, you just have to carry a slingshot and shoot when you see birds landing, you could call it semi-passive too. The only annoying think is that krampus is going to attack you (I know the bag is good but he never drops it).

Easily killing bird is a cool thing he has and isn't overpowered, like almost any other character. Each time they get reworked, they get new perks, which is actually cool, but they get no downside. This makes the game easier.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

If your group is relying on Walter to gather grass, twigs, and berries instead of digging these resources up you are once again intentionally playing badly in order to give the illusion of value.

This is true. I wish there were more destructive mechanics, like the disease was, or idk, making the meteor crashing sites move slowly over time, thinks like that. The only things that really threatens you once you are well established are the hounds growing in number, and maybe spider queens if you have lots of spiders near your base, wildfires and destructive bosses like bearger or deerclops.

I find surviving off the variety of what natural biomes offer you much more interesting than building farms that will always be there and living off only dragonpies, pieorgies or whatever you are farming en masse until you decide it's time to fight a boss and my opinion may be biased for that reason.

 

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I will not quote the rest, i red it, you are right on most of what you wrote, and it is true that almost every other characters kit is better than Walter's in many if not almost every situation.

I just feel like the fact that he is one of the weakest actually means he is balanced. Killing small mobs, having a cheap beefallo or a tent and a bunch of other perks not making him the god of ranged combat is a good thing imo. No character should be 10 times better than Wilson.

[Brago-sama]

6 hours ago, Jandri said:

I can't think of a situation where the speed one would be useful.

Its very useful in anciant gaurdians fight where if you dont use it, she lags behind when you're repositioning yourself behind a pillar and constantly gets hit by the charges. Niche use, but for this one fight, its a very nice niche

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Jandri said:

Are you talking about cheesy farms that use statues, catapults or that exploit the behavior of some mobs that will try to reach food left on the ground?

It isn't hard to kill birds while you are doing something else, you just have to carry a slingshot and shoot when you see birds landing, you could call it semi-passive too. The only annoying think is that krampus is going to attack you (I know the bag is good but he never drops it).

Easily killing bird is a cool thing he has and isn't overpowered, like almost any other character. Each time they get reworked, they get new perks, which is actually cool, but they get no downside. This makes the game easier.

No but this actually highlights how Walter suffers from the Wortox situation in this scenario. People called Wortox broken for being able to hop around the map, eat a non perishable food source, and get easy heals which if you just look at the result looks very powerful. However once you take a step back you notice each time he has to stop and find mobs to farm using as just about as much time as people who just did things the normal way in most instances to which people would say "Well you can just store mobs to bypass the cap" failing to realize you've now made the process take even longer using this method.

Walter's slingshot works on basically the same principle but to a worse degree sure you'll save time doing specific tasks after you have the ammo but the time you spend building up your ammo could be instead used hunting mobs that give more food or setting up highly profitable passive food sources like berries, crops, and honey.

That aside I don't feel that Walter is the weakest character or that his perks outside of the slingshot are bad they're quite good in fact but the issue is none of those perks fill the role of a primary perk and because of that he comes off like Webber or Wurt without their followers they still have useful abilities without them but they don't feel complete without their followers and that's where Walter stands.

The slingshot doesn't even need to become some ultra powerful weapon to be fixed. If they massively raise the ammo conversion rate, inventory slot cap for ammo, and gave the slingshot much better crowd control rounds I'd consider it good enough to be a primary perk. It doesn't need to be amazing.

[HeatAndRun]

I don't care much about how much the ammo is expensive if it is powerful enough.