Moose form DPS to planar enemies is equal* or lower than Woodie human form DPS

[Picklesaurus]

Hello! 

New Moose is currently really great to deal with some bosses and normal enemies, he is also nice to get you started on dealing with the new end game content when you still dont have brighshade and dark tatters gear since his third hit deals planar damage. That said, after getting a brighshade sword and helm Woodie human form starts dealing equal* or higher damage than his moose form: 

This video shows the damage of each hit of both forms and their attack speed. 

Each hit of Woodie's human form wearing a brighshade helm while using a bs sword deals 63 to Lunar aligned planar enemies and 69 to Dark aligned planar enemies. Also, the time between its attacks has a variation of either 0,466 seconds or 0,5 seconds. 
With that information in mind, lets take a look at the Damage Per Second of this form. 

To Lunar planar enemies: 63 ÷ 0,466 = 135,2 DPS and 63 ÷ 0,5 = 126 DPS 

To  Dark planar enemies: 69 ÷ 0,466 = 148 DPS and 69 ÷ 0,5 = 138 DPS 
 
So Woodie human form while using the brighshade helm and sword deals between 135 and 126 DPS to Lunar planar enemies and between 148 and 138 DPS to Dark planar enemies. 

In the same video we can see that Moose form takes 3 attacks to deal a combo of 37 + 37 + 146 damage to both Lunar and Dark planar enemies and he attacks every 0,533 seconds or 0,566 seconds. Considering this information, lets take a look at this form's DPS: 
 
The full combo deals 37 + 37 + 146 = 220 damage. 
The full leght of a combo is somewhere between 0,533s + 0,53s3 + 0,533s = 1,599 s and 0,566s + 0,566 + 0,566s = 1,698s 
 
We can now calculate the Damage Per Second by dividing the damage of the combo by the time in seconds it takes to deal it 

To Lunar\Dark planar enemies: 220 ÷ 1,599 = 137,5 DPS and 220 ÷ 1,698 = 129,5 DPS 

So Moose form deals between 137,5 and 129,5 DPS to both Lunar and Dark planar enemies which if he hits the combo... if he doesnt his DPS falls to somewhere between 37 ÷ 0,533 = 69,4 DPS and 37 ÷ 0,566 = 65,3 DPS. 
 
In conclusion Moose deals between 2,3 and 3,5 more DPS than his human form to Lunar planar enemies and between 10,5 to 8,2  less DPS to Dark planar enemies If he hits the full combo, in case he misses the third hit of the combo the DPS falls to more than 60 less damage to both planar enemy types. That is considering brighshade sword and helm... void cowl + shadow reaper deals more DPS against both planar enemy types than moose if you are good at dodging.
 
Past acquiring Brightshade or dark tatters gear I will probably only be using Woodie human form against end game content which is sad since I like having excuses to use Moose form, but the flexibility of human form - being able to use inventory, easy heals, acess to more movement speed - while also having the same DPS or more than Moose  and not consuming my hunger bar and draining my sanity like moose does is too much in favor of human form. That situation feels like a déjà-vu - but this time against end game enemies - to pre skill tree moose which I only used against spiders, Klaus and some seasonal bosses and only as cheap armor because human form had better DPS, movement speed and was safer.  
 
All things considered, although I would like for moose to be better than Woodie human form for some combat related situations during end game content - Like some bosses they may add - , which could be done by giving his punny 37 damage normal attacks before the combo finisher some planar damage, it is already pretty damn great against non planar enemies. That said, I'm a bit worried that moose will feel even worse when compared to human form as they add new upgrades to planar weapons and gear.  

So I would like to hear your opinions, how do you feel about Moose compared to human form when considering planar enemies? 

[Arcwell]

I like how it stands now, personally.

The DPS is similar enough that I'm not heavily discouraged from using one or the other. Weremoose DPS is enough to kill a brightshade in 1 stun cycle, which is perfect imo. As for ink blights, I wouldn't use any melee against them, instead opting for brightshade staff (I also don't have a lot of experience against them though).

[Mysterious box]

Personally I feel like this is a chance to solve his vulnerability issue pre and post transformation and damage issue at once how about if the faction armors stay equipped on wereform transformation. They won't provide any defense but they'll add faction bonus damage to them making it so if people wish to use the moose as their primary combat method post end game they can once more faction mobs are introduced.

To further balance this we could have each transformation consume durability from the armors on use.

[HeatAndRun]

Moose's normal attack needs planar damage buff when mastered.

[flamboyant wolf]

48 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I like how it stands now, personally.

The DPS is similar enough that I'm not heavily discouraged from using one or the other. Weremoose DPS is enough to kill a brightshade in 1 stun cycle, which is perfect imo. As for ink blights, I wouldn't use any melee against them, instead opting for brightshade staff (I also don't have a lot of experience against them though).

besides, Moose has good defense and hp regen, so he's a very safe choice for brightshades/inkblight trio.

[fabin]

does mastered moose have planar defense? i haven't tested much with him, when i read the "tougher hide" part of the moose branch i thought he got planar defense. that'd make him even more viable for that kind of stuff

[Jakepeng99]

Moose is already strong it does not need this.

[inzecta]

"This is not better than everything else please fix."

[flamboyant wolf]

4 minutes ago, fabin said:

does mastered moose have planar defense? i haven't tested much with him, when i read the "tougher hide" part of the moose branch i thought he got planar defense. that'd make him even more viable for that kind of stuff

I think so, I remember reading something about it here on forums. 

[Arcwell]

36 minutes ago, fabin said:

does mastered moose have planar defense? i haven't tested much with him, when i read the "tougher hide" part of the moose branch i thought he got planar defense. that'd make him even more viable for that kind of stuff

Yes:

It is worth noting though, planar defense applies before weremoose's 90% damage reduction (unclear if this is intended or not), so it equates to at most 10 * 0.1 = 1 damage saved against planar enemies 

[Picklesaurus]

35 minutes ago, inzecta said:

"This is not better than everything else please fix."

Do you think you contribute to the discussion by commenting something like this? People also said Moose was incredible when Woodie first received his rework post transformation duration buff, yet he had to receive another defese buff and people still wouldnt use it over Woodie unless you were farming drops from horde mobs like spiders or something niche like klaus that deals heat and freeze damage. I'm not saying he should be better than everything else, nor did I say he should be changed, I was asking people opinion about his DPS being the same or worse than his Human form to planar enemies when new planar related content - like gear, enemies and possibly bosses - are planned to be added in the future.

[inzecta]

2 hours ago, Picklesaurus said:

All things considered, although I would like for moose to be better than Woodie human form for some combat related situations during end game content - Like some bosses they may add - , which could be done by giving his punny 37 damage normal attacks before the combo finisher some planar damage, it is already pretty damn great against non planar enemies. That said, I'm a bit worried that moose will feel even worse when compared to human form as they add new upgrades to planar weapons and gear.  

So I would like to hear your opinions, how do you feel about Moose compared to human form when considering planar enemies? 

You literally just contradicted yourself.

[Picklesaurus]

14 minutes ago, inzecta said:

You literally just contradicted yourself.

How exactly? Saying I would like for Moose to be better than Woodie in some end game combat situations doesn't mean I want moose to be better than everything else nor does it mean things should be how I like. I would like wes to be better, should he be? The community thinks not and I'm fine with it since I'm not the only wes player. This is why I'm asking for opinion, I'd like to see ppl perspectives, what people think. 

But this is besides the point of me quoting you, I was asking if you think you are contributing to the discussion by saying "This is not better than everything else pls fix" instead of voicing your concerns properly.

[inzecta]

5 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

Saying I would like something doesn't mean things should be how I like.

I am not getting into an argument over semantics, you said you were not asking for him to be changed but say in the original post you would like to see a change. Things being how you like or not is irrelevant, its a contradiction.

[Jakepeng99]

35 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

Do you think you contribute to the discussion by commenting something like this? People also said Moose was incredible when Woodie first received his rework post transformation duration buff, yet he had to receive another defese buff and people still wouldnt use it over Woodie unless you were farming drops from horde mobs like spiders or something niche like klaus that deals heat and freeze damage. I'm not saying he should be better than everything else, nor did I say he should be changed, I was asking people opinion about his DPS being the same or worse than his Human form to planar enemies when new planar related content - like gear, enemies and possibly bosses - are planned to be added in the future.

The moose, the thing you can easily use on day one that holds up to late game probably should not be as good, or better than end game items in terms of dps. The planar defense could be buffed though since it only prevents one damage.

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The moose, the thing you can easily use on day one that holds up to late game probably should not be as good, or better than end game items in terms of dps. The planar defense could be buffed though since it only prevents one damage.

I mean there's an argument that this could equally apply to Wolfgang's damage multiplier I don't see why one character's damage perk is ok to fall off but not the other.

1 hour ago, skile said:

besides, Moose has good defense and hp regen, so he's a very safe choice for brightshades/inkblight trio.

For now probably but he's carries a higher risk in any combat scenario with decently fast mobs which is him potientally taking unavoidable unarmored damage which is increasingly more dangerous as damage values increase.

[ShadowDuelist]

It's probably an okay trade:

• To save items and fight endgame things cheaply at the cost of a small damage reduction, no food healing and big sanity drain,

or

• Embrace human Woodie for the lategame fights, and master any of the other forms for better gathering or transport.

A buff in the planar defense to make it super planar-tanky (get little damage from planar enemies) would maybe make it more unique. Regardless, I just hope they don't nerf him.

[Jakepeng99]

47 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean there's an argument that this could equally apply to Wolfgang's damage multiplier I don't see why one character's damage perk is ok to fall off but not the other.

For now probably but he's carries a higher risk in any combat scenario with decently fast mobs which is him potientally taking unavoidable unarmored damage which is increasingly more dangerous as damage values increase.

Because It's Wolfgang's entire character. Even late game with planar equipment, moose is still really useful.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Because It's Wolfgang's entire character. Even late game with planar equipment, moose is still really useful.

I would agree if it weren't for the fact you have the choice to specialize in it the wereforms are as large a part of his character as Wolfgang being mighty. Now this won't be much of a issue if post endgame enemies don't scale higher in their respective alignment resistances and damages but I think that's unlikely. Though I'd be satisfied if they simply tweak it when the time comes so he doesn't lag behind his human state afterall what good is a combat form if it's weaker than your base.