Please allow Brightshade spawn on stone fruit and banana bushes, AKA Don't punish the player for putting in the effort and learning

[Cassielu]

For those who can beat CC, there's not much reason to use the Farm instead of planting banana bushes and stone fruits. In most cases, Farm is used simply because it is "fun" enough, rather than because it provides a significantly more valuable return.

After this update, things move away from that precarious equilibrium, and farm people are threatened by Brightshade, but bananas and stone fruit? They are safe, "easy" and efficient, so why should I put in the effort and learn the mechanics but get less bang for my buck than sitting around waiting for bananas to grow?

When a "challenge" needs to threaten the player through a "channel", they are no longer a "challenge", they are a resistance, preventing the player from doing it. Just like the sails and anchors on a ship, or the walls of the base. They were all targeted by a large number of threats.

Things like this only lead to one thing in the end: players don't use them to avoid these penalties. They are only used by a small number of players who like them decorative or operational, and therefore must suffer threats that could have been avoided.

Please don't let a great mechanic like Farm become a new sail, anchor, or wall. Don't let the player be penalized for choosing to invest their energy, learn the mechanics, and choose a more enjoyable resource acquisition channel over afk.

[Ardyn]

Bananas have replaced most of the functions of the farm, which is really frustrating. Why can't bananas be made into a farml plant? Obtaining special farm plants through special means sounds very exciting.

[Mike23Ua]

I’ve recently learned that 1 Banana + 3 Ice, or 1 meat, 1 banana, 1 berry, 1 ice makes some pretty good Healing/Sanity food options- That are faster to make than waiting for Periogi’s, I was actually able to kill a swarm of 3 Brightshades that had invaded my farm because I was able to rely upon the Banana bushes I had planted around my base OUTSIDE of that farm, so whenever the Brightshades would break my gear and get me low on HP I was able to use Banana + ice and also 1 morsel + 3 ice, to take my farm back from my lunar invaders.

And here you are wanting them to spawn on the only saving Grace I had?? Lol.. bro- I had banana bushes in a circle around my base, you want me to look like a block of cheese with Mice swarming in from all directions? 

[Fufuji]

I transplant plants. I decorate my base with plants. I get punishment from plants. I curse Their names.

[Cassielu]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And here you are wanting them to spawn on the only saving Grace I had?? Lol.. bro- I had banana bushes in a circle around my base, you want me to look like a block of cheese with Mice swarming in from all directions? 

You think that because you haven't realized the fact that You weren't invaded. You invited them to your base Because you farming. You brought this on yourself. This is the piece of meat that attracts sharks, and the best and only way to deal with it is to abandon your farm.

Do you like this?

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

You think that because you haven't realized the fact that You weren't invaded. You invited them to your base Because you farming. You brought this on yourself. This is the piece of meat that attracts sharks, and the best and only way to deal with it is to abandon your farm.

Do you like this?

Actually.. I barely use farms unless I’m playing as Wurt.. Most the time I only build a “Farm” to create a cool looking Graveyard in or near my base. So there’s never any actual food growing in the pile of dirt that’s over there.

I didn’t abandon that graveyard though, I simply had to look around my map, locate some Brightshades that spawned that wasn’t part of that cluster, kill said Brightshade that’s off by his lonesome, obtain Husks, build Brightshade Gear, then kill the infestation that invaded my Purely decorative graveyard.

Needless to say- I find it logical that alien plants would seek out the best soil to live within.. rather there was crops planted there or just an empty graveyard decoration.

One thing I HATE about Crop Plots is how forget me lots just pop up in them overtime requiring you to constantly shovel them out so your graveyard still looks like a Graveyard.

And again- if the Brightshades would’ve infested my banana bushes, I wouldn’t have had the healing foods I needed to fight back my invaders with  

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

You think that because you haven't realized the fact that You weren't invaded. You invited them to your base Because you farming. You brought this on yourself. This is the piece of meat that attracts sharks, and the best and only way to deal with it is to abandon your farm

This is where you contradicts yourself. You claimed that the game shouldn't punish the players for putting in effort learning how to play. Then you shows support for deadly brightshades, which only start spawning after you learned how to beat the final boss and became skilled.

If being skilled enough to kill the final boss means being banned from any plant related gameplay, then isn't this the opposite of  "game shouldn't punish the players for putting in effort learning how to play"?

Also in regards of banana&stone fruit bushes, they can grow anywhere in the caves unlike the farm crops, which requires sunshine. So getting them targeted isn't going to make a big difference, just move it to caves, mass farm with Wickerbottom's books, bundle up and you'll be fine.

One last thing, it's nothing personal, but I think your understanding on gameplay is different from the majority. Like a few months ago you reported Pearl's garbage cleaning task can be repeated as a bug. This doesn't make sense at all since it is not overpowered to have more shell bells, what's that beach turf/shell music gonna do? Kill a boss for you? You're kinda obsessed with some kind of purity here.

[Yuuko]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:59 AM, Cassielu said:

When a "challenge" needs to threaten the player through a "channel", they are no longer a "challenge", they are a resistance, preventing the player from doing it. Just like the sails and anchors on a ship, or the walls of the base. They were all targeted by a large number of threats.

 

This is the real take right here.  Games are all about different systems, balances of risk / reward, interaction, and engagement.  When they are designed well a player can enjoy going through the processes, no matter how difficult or taxing because the reward and engagement is there.  When you have a system that is high risk / low reward, with little interaction and engagement players simply avoid participating.

Sharks in the water are a good example - I never hear anyone say "oh boy a shark," more like "fk a shark, I guess I'll row away."  They are a bane of ocean fishing because you can't ignore them, they eat the fish you're after !  BUT if you engage with them by the time you're done the fish probably swam away and the rewards for defeating the shark are pitiful. (plus its just as likely the shark swims away after the fish are gone and your time is wasted and you don't even get their trash drops.)  Its a lose / lose situation.  Because avoiding them carries no penalty, it becomes the correct course of action - just don't interact with sharks (and thus a lot of ocean content.)

As the OP says - this is why sails, anchors, etc aren't used much.  So many things just trash your boat that you might as well just use the bare cookie and a drift wood oar.

BS is very similar.  It doesn't give the player a good system with risk / reward for engaging, instead it punishes the player for using gardens.  While it might be fun to fight them off a few times, it quickly becomes monotonous and rather than deal with them you just don't plant gardens. (just like cave / oasis basing becomes a thing when you're fed up with dealing with wildfires)

Its not like its hard to swap to wicker and grow stacks of garden crops when you want them, and just never leave crops around otherwise.  That just means, ya know, not engaging with multiple parts of the game.

[Spino43]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’ve recently learned that 1 Banana + 3 Ice, or 1 meat, 1 banana, 1 berry, 1 ice makes some pretty good Healing/Sanity food options- That are faster to make than waiting for Periogi’s, I was actually able to kill a swarm of 3 Brightshades that had invaded my farm because I was able to rely upon the Banana bushes I had planted around my base OUTSIDE of that farm, so whenever the Brightshades would break my gear and get me low on HP I was able to use Banana + ice and also 1 morsel + 3 ice, to take my farm back from my lunar invaders.

And here you are wanting them to spawn on the only saving Grace I had?? Lol.. bro- I had banana bushes in a circle around my base, you want me to look like a block of cheese with Mice swarming in from all directions? 

I thought that you like brightshades... why with the sudden rejection? 

[Cassielu]

51 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

This is the real take right here.  Games are all about different systems, balances of risk / reward, interaction, and engagement.  When they are designed well a player can enjoy going through the processes, no matter how difficult or taxing because the reward and engagement is there.  When you have a system that is high risk / low reward, with little interaction and engagement players simply avoid participating.

That's exactly what I'm against, don't let "just don't do it" be the right choice.

If the Brightshade is spawn equally on all types of plants, it won't have to make the player throw away some plants in favor of plants that don't attract the Brightshade. Make it a real invasion, not a by-product of the farm.

[n11360]

You getting this all wrong, the shades ARE a reward and not a penance once you learned how to deal with em and thats exactly what you asking for here learn something and get rewarded for it.

Here is what info you missing:

Learn their spawn pattern and make em spawn where you want em (twig,gras patches are good) then you halfway to using em beneficial.

Once you got them where you want them you learn how to use em, the simplest way is to kill em and get the loots, but how you kill em you might ask ....well thats easy just make em spawn near water then you use the Celestial portal (with cc dead it should be just a formality) to swap to winona and make some catapults on a boat right next to the plants wich will kill the plants for you at the cost of a gem, alternatively you can put a Houndius Shootius on the boat also you have to line up the edge of the boats with statues so hounds cant jump on the boat.

But there is more Brightshades are TRUE killers ...they kill EVERYTHING all you need to do is hit them with a ranged weapon like a dart or a boomerang while another mob is close to em to start a massacre of spiders merms treeguards or whatever you want em to kill but they wont last forever and will die eventually especialy vs treeguards.

Alternatively you can just avoid shades in base alltogether by outsourcing everything what spawns em to caves but afaik they WILL start to spawn on wild plants if they run out of targets and the constant will eventually become infested so dealing with em is the better way of trying to not deal with em at all.

That being said,they ARE relative new so i probably not even aware of all usecases they have, i smell more murder farms thou

[Cassielu]

2 hours ago, n11360 said:

Learn their spawn pattern and make em spawn where you want em (twig,gras patches are good) then you halfway to using em beneficial.

Thanks, but I'm sure I know exactly about these. I know what I can do to kill it, I know what I can do to keep it away from my base, and I even know a farm that kills them completely automatically without the player having to get close enough to load it.
What I object to is that the best way to keep it off my base is to stop farming and do nothing. Replace the more interesting and in-depth farming system (hoe/plot) with the way afk captures resources (like banana brsh).

[lakhnish]

6 hours ago, Cassielu said:

What I object to is that the best way to keep it off my base is to stop farming and do nothing.

Brightshades from future waves won't spawn within a 7.5 tile radius of existing Brightshades.

You can plant something you don't care about, let that get infected by a Brightshade, leave a 3 tile deadzone from that Brightshade and with the remaining 3.5 tiles radius, you then plant what you want.

The 3 tile deadzone from the Brightshade is so you can ignore the vine chasing you.

If you need more room, have another Brightshade infect something else to have the circles overlap each other, keeping in mind the info above.

[bloopah]

14 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Brightshades from future waves won't spawn within a 7.5 tile radius of existing Brightshades.

You can plant something you don't care about, let that get infected by a Brightshade, leave a 3 tile deadzone from that Brightshade and with the remaining 3.5 tiles radius, you then plant what you want.

The 3 tile deadzone from the Brightshade is so you can ignore the vine chasing you.

If you need more room, have another Brightshade infect something else to have the circles overlap each other, keeping in mind the info above.

Are you sure it's the Brightshades themselves that won't spawn next to each other and not the groups of Brightshade Gestalts? 7.5 TILES is a very large distance apart.

[lakhnish]

8 hours ago, bloopah said:

Are you sure it's the Brightshades themselves that won't spawn next to each other and not the groups of Brightshade Gestalts? 7.5 TILES is a very large distance apart.

Yes, I had both tested and verified this. Brightshades won't spawn near existing Brightshades within that radius.

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Yes, I had both tested and verified this. Brightshades won't spawn near existing Brightshades within that radius.

Wait I don’t understand what your saying.. do Brightshades NOT spawn near one another anymore or something???

I'm playing on Xbox so I’m playing the very earliest build of the update, but if plants no longer spawn near one another then this just made dealing with them significantly easier.

A group of 3 Brightshades whilst challenging, could’ve still been dealt with if you had one or two other players to help with removing them.

NOW if they don’t spawn close to one another anymore this new end game mob is laughably easy to kill and obtain great gear from.

Or am I misunderstanding you??

[bloopah]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wait I don’t understand what your saying.. do Brightshades NOT spawn near one another anymore or something???

I'm playing on Xbox so I’m playing the very earliest build of the update, but if plants no longer spawn near one another then this just made dealing with them significantly easier.

A group of 3 Brightshades whilst challenging, could’ve still been dealt with if you had one or two other players to help with removing them.

NOW if they don’t spawn close to one another anymore this new end game mob is laughably easy to kill and obtain great gear from.

Or am I misunderstanding you??

They still do. And I have tested it a lot of times. (He probably doesn't actually check whether or not the stuff he says is true.)

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

Yes, I had both tested and verified this. Brightshades won't spawn near existing Brightshades within that radius.

Do you mean a second colony of BS won't spawn near an existing colony of BS?  Or that an individual BS plan will not spawn within this range of another single BS plant?

[Valase]

1 hour ago, bloopah said:

They still do. And I have tested it a lot of times. (He probably doesn't actually check whether or not the stuff he says is true.)

How did you test?
By watching one wave (usually 2 or 3 brightshades) spawn on their target, or did you wait for another wave of brightshades and then check if they would target the same plants that already had brightshades?

The closest thing that happened to me was after clearing one wave (It was there for some days), a few seconds later the next wave came and infected the area again, but I never had two waves on the same area.

[lakhnish]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Do you mean a second colony of BS won't spawn near an existing colony of BS?

Sorry about that confusion. Yes, this is what I meant. I explain more at this timestamp here.

Here's a video example where despite new brightshades are spawning, they are not spawning within the circle I've created because a brightshade from a previous wave is still here.

Spoiler

The number being shown is the amount of brightshades that exist in the world.

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wait I don’t understand what your saying.. do Brightshades NOT spawn near one another anymore or something???

You're misunderstanding. During each wave, you can get upto 3 Brighshades spawning next to each other.

It's just that the for the following wave(s), the game can't spawn a brand new brightshade next to an already existing Brightshade from previous waves within a 7.5 tile radius.

[bloopah]

8 hours ago, lakhnish said:

Yes, this is what I meant.

Then why did you reply that you did mean the Brightshades themselves rather than the Gestalt groups when I asked?

[lakhnish]

22 hours ago, bloopah said:

Are you sure it's the Brightshades themselves that won't spawn next to each other and not the groups of Brightshade Gestalts? 7.5 TILES is a very large distance apart.

I understood what you wrote but I unfortunately did not write a good response, so sorry about that.

What I wrote above is accurate.

[Cassielu]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:38 PM, lakhnish said:

Brightshades from future waves won't spawn within a 7.5 tile radius of existing Brightshades.

You can plant something you don't care about, let that get infected by a Brightshade, leave a 3 tile deadzone from that Brightshade and with the remaining 3.5 tiles radius, you then plant what you want.

The 3 tile deadzone from the Brightshade is so you can ignore the vine chasing you.

If you need more room, have another Brightshade infect something else to have the circles overlap each other, keeping in mind the info above.

Thanks for you try to help me, but as I said, I know about this. Yes, that would solve the Brightshade problem. But the main contradiction is between the more interesting and deeper farming mechanism and the more efficient but totally just waiting banana bush. stop interesting farming and use afk to get the resource banana bush, you will not face the threat. Tackle the problem at its source.

Using a data mining level covert mechanism (AKA tricks on edge of cheese ), huge amount of calculation, changing the layout of the entire camp and leaving a large dangerous space. Don't you get any bit of frustrating know that you could have gotten more rewards from the simpler, less brainless afk.

Why can't we just get more rewards from more interesting and deeper mechanics?

 

On the other hand.

Seasonal Giant/Fire Hound Wave/Wildfire threatening your base through you? Just get off the base. The base will be safe without you.
Wavey Jones threatened your ship through sails? Just don't build sails. The ship will safe without sails.
How ridiculous? How much more do we have to give up now that the moon and shadow are about to invade? This is the worst kind of stuff, and it has to end, either to make the threat smaller and acceptable or to make the threat inescapable. Please don't let the best solution for the player be to forgo a more enjoyable experience.

 

[n11360]

So...? now i think i understand what you realy asking for here ...you dont have beef with the BS ...you have beef with the fact that farming is totaly optional right?!?

[NOOOBU]

Time-limted brightshade plz