This is not the direction Don't Starve should be going

[Antynomity]

29 minutes ago, Riddla said:

Since Wilson serves to be as an introductory character, I think Torch upgrades are fine.

you people are an actual hive mind

[Wonz]

7 hours ago, Riddla said:

Anything is possible, it could be an experiment from Klei, it could be simply for balance - maybe they don't want the character with no downsides to have so many perks.
Isn't it neat though that you're provided with choices, selecting only perks for yourself that will be the most useful to you? As mentioned already above, torches can be viewed as useless due to lanterns for example, so you're free to sacrifice the torch tree for other skills. And vice versa - someone might not like beard upgrades, but they struggle with light - they'll like torch upgrades much more.

And wig's helms are useless because shelmets exists. Yet if she was one with skill tree people would notice how it sucks to have to choose between helmet and songs like wilson instead of getting both. 

For wilson and his transmutation a torch could be easier to get item that's as good as lantern but you have to give it up for better perks, that's where's my distaste from.  When there's choice between different thing then there's always better choice.

[Milordo]

On 3/10/2023 at 3:10 PM, Riddla said:

Since Wilson serves to be as an introductory character, I think Torch upgrades are fine. The game throws you onto the floor right at the beginning and you get no help nor hints on what to do exactly, there is a lot, a LOT of info to digest, and it can get extremely overwhelming. Torch is the most intuitive and safe thing to craft, because its materials are always readily available in your sight from such beginning. All of these extra seconds coming from torch upgrades matter to new players especially, with all the time spent on exploring the game, because once their torches are gone at night, they can say goodbye to all of the progress they've made.

I also don't think it's fair to assume that every single player is just going to immediately jump into wiki and start googling "DST BEST LIGHT SOURCE" - many prefer to play blindly, and it might even take a lot of time to find out about caves, lanterns, and whatnot. Even then, lantern/miner hat can have its own caveats - it can get inconvenient to always go chasing for lightbulbs, while a whole stack of twigs/grass never perish and can let you craft up to 20 torches, also being important for crafting many other things, but again that all depends on player's playstyle and their way of approaching things, it's all debatable.

 

Anything is possible, it could be an experiment from Klei, it could be simply for balance - maybe they don't want the character with no downsides to have so many perks.
Isn't it neat though that you're provided with choices, selecting only perks for yourself that will be the most useful to you? As mentioned already above, torches can be viewed as useless due to lanterns for example, so you're free to sacrifice the torch tree for other skills. And vice versa - someone might not like beard upgrades, but they struggle with light - they'll like torch upgrades much more.

You're right. You're very right and I agree 100% on the new players and spoiler perspective (afterall I stated those at the start of the post)

You know when problems arise Riddla? When you start test and play this new "system". Remember, new player, noob, normal player, good player, veterans and what not, we have all just 15 points. The points can be redistribute only if you restart a run or swap the character with the moon rock idol. Also, also, playstyle is playstyle, but balance, design and fun determines what the playstyle will be.

I don't know how much fine could be the torch tree and I don't want to repeat it again, but again, it has been said many many times how this skill tree and the mechanics around undermines a lot and produce the opposite effects on the player. You could pick a new player who fall for this trap for about some hours and then, on his, I don't know, 5th run? He understands already the useless of the torch tree and invest those points effienctly and best as possible (because it's what the skill tree force on you) in the alchemy and beard insulation, since we're talking new players, otherwise it would be beard lenght as normal player. If all the skill tree was perfectly balanced (something impossible as Klei is not good at and probably didn't care this round) all my points and discussion, probably even my post and all my criticisms, would have changed a lot. 

The skill tree and generally this rework is a no, no from the start and it's a pity Klei wanted to rush things to get done with it.

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Milordo said:

If all the skill tree was perfectly balanced (something impossible as Klei is not good at and probably didn't care this round) all my points and discussion, probably even my post and all my criticisms, would have changed a lot. 

The skill tree and generally this rework is a no, no from the start and it's a pity Klei wanted to rush things to get done with it.

If you've ever played DS or DST then having 90% of options actually just be worthless shouldn't be new to you XD  The developers have never played any serious balancing game.  In fact being a game of player knowledge and player skill learning which options are good and which are a hard pass is part of the game.  This can suck because something might sound fun while actually being bad, but bad options actually need to exist in this type of game.  Just like in Magic The Gathering they need trashy cards in the card pool because part of player skill is recognizing what makes the cards good or not.

Part of Wilson's rework is learning which skill point trees are a good investment.  What is best might not be the same for everyone though.  Personally I'm going 4 in torch tree for brightness through throwing, alchy with 2 in the left tree and all 3 on the right, then shadow affinity.  To me the beard hair is completely disinteresting as I already have plenty of insulation and storing a few pieces of food is meh lol  Also I feel gems are plentiful enough for my needs.  (I could also quickly respec if I wanted to spam transmute gems or something?)
I guess to each their own?

Also switching characters to reset the tree isn't a big drag.  Purple gems and moon rock are cheap after first year.  Your example of the noob on his 5th run who has decided they want to place their skills differently?  Well they got a 6th run coming lol.  An honestly new character going at it blind without researching what they want is probably going to unlock all 15 points before they're anywhere near done restarting worlds.

I think your complaints are half baked.  We all can enjoy different things, its okay if you don't like every single thing Klei does.  They've certainly done some things I haven't liked, yet I haven't stopped playing for it.  Nothing has "ruined" Wilson, if you put 0 points into any tree you're exactly where he was before the rework, where he's been since the beginning.

As for Klei "rushing things," to what do you draw your comparison?  Every character rework has been on beta for 1-2 weeks before being launched.  I don't see how this feels any more rushed then any other rework.

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

If you've ever played DS or DST then having 90% of options actually just be worthless shouldn't be new to you XD  The developers have never played any serious balancing game.  In fact being a game of player knowledge and player skill learning which options are good and which are a hard pass is part of the game.  This can suck because something might sound fun while actually being bad, but bad options actually need to exist in this type of game.  Just like in Magic The Gathering they need trashy cards in the card pool because part of player skill is recognizing what makes the cards good or not.

Part of Wilson's rework is learning which skill point trees are a good investment.  What is best might not be the same for everyone though.  Personally I'm going 4 in torch tree for brightness through throwing, alchy with 2 in the left tree and all 3 on the right, then shadow affinity.  To me the beard hair is completely disinteresting as I already have plenty of insulation and storing a few pieces of food is meh lol  Also I feel gems are plentiful enough for my needs.  (I could also quickly respec if I wanted to spam transmute gems or something?)
I guess to each their own?

Also switching characters to reset the tree isn't a big drag.  Purple gems and moon rock are cheap after first year.  Your example of the noob on his 5th run who has decided they want to place their skills differently?  Well they got a 6th run coming lol.  An honestly new character going at it blind without researching what they want is probably going to unlock all 15 points before they're anywhere near done restarting worlds.

I think your complaints are half baked.  We all can enjoy different things, its okay if you don't like every single thing Klei does.  They've certainly done some things I haven't liked, yet I haven't stopped playing for it.  Nothing has "ruined" Wilson, if you put 0 points into any tree you're exactly where he was before the rework, where he's been since the beginning.

Fine, fine.

3 hours ago, Shosuko said:

As for Klei "rushing things," to what do you draw your comparison?  Every character rework has been on beta for 1-2 weeks before being launched.  I don't see how this feels any more rushed then any other rework.

Because it's been the fastest rework compared to others and Klei just did some small changes. Only beard trimming and the beard hair rug are the major ones. I'm not the only one who felt this way.

[Hemolymph]

I feel like arguing that hinting at features or bosses in the game is "spoilers". There's no other way in game for you to find out the esoteric ways you want to fight the final boss. Ancient Fuelweaver, the Ruins, the Archives, all appear in animations and promotions for the game. It's not spoilers, it's direction.