Pig Princess Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, edulopes said: Quote me another please Wanda has CC-specific interaction, but just because of nature of their abilities the following characters are also at advantage in CC fight: Wickerbottom (rain book + morning star is good for 40k+ hp boss), Wormwood (living logs for dark swords, extra speed if one doesn't have cane for any reason), Walter (looses lunacy on hit, irrelevant for 2nd kill if one uses CC crown though), Warly (well, his grim galette) if one takes a lot of damage in phase 3, and volt goat jelly in general, as well as fighters in general (Wigfrid, Wolfgang) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Wigfrid has one and he's still stronger and I'm willing to bet Warly is only stronger when it's raining point is he's really good at combat. Wigfrid can face tank with no downside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Just now, edulopes said: ALL the cast have more Hp than him So? Techincally Wanda requires you to stay at much much lower hp than him to keep her best damage. Just now, edulopes said: Wigfrid can face tank with no downside Maxwell can tank as well since he has no food restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Pig Princess said: Wanda has CC-specific interaction, but just because of nature of their abilities Wickerbottom (rain book + morning star is good for 40k+ hp boss), Wormwood (living logs for dark swords, extra speed if one doesn't have cane for any reason), Walter (looses lunacy on hit, irrelevant for 2nd kill if one uses CC crown though), Warly (well, his grim galette) if one takes a lot of damage in phase 3, and fighters in general (Wigfrid, Wolfgang) That IS my point why Maxwell cant have an more satifying way to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Just now, edulopes said: That IS my point why Maxwell cant have an more satifying way to play? Besting the best of the best doesn't not equal satisfy to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: So? Techincally Wanda requires you to stay at much much lower hp than him to keep her best damage. Maxwell can tank as well since he has no food restrictions. Wanda dont need food, She dont need It, shopping tô eat is sn dps loss, and Maxwell have to eat often than other caracters 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Besting the best of the best doesn't not equal satisfy to play Where faster Codex cancela would make bom the best? Where more tanky shadows would make him the best Was he the best when his shadows dealth 60 damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, edulopes said: That IS my point why Maxwell cant have an more satifying way to play? But CC is not the only thing he can do. Bee Queen, Dragonfly, Twins, Toadstool, at least until last phase, not to mention non-boss encounters like ruins clearing and seasonal bosses/Ancient Guardian. Plus fighting is by far not the only thing he can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Pig Princess said: But CC is not the only thing he can do. Bee Queen, Dragonfly, Twins, not to mention non-boss encounters like ruins clearing and seasonal bosses/Ancient Guardian. Plus fighting is by far not the only thing he can do Well any caracter can do that too, some better some worse The best part of his kit is Just wicker books And pillars Shadow servants have too many problems that Shadow workers didn't have  And more he only os able to do those figths because of the pillars destroys the aà of most mobs, because his shadows are really on an bad spot not lack of damage but lack of durabilty or easy spam, The time It takes tô last spawn is Just frustrsting 21 minutes ago, Pig Princess said: But CC is not the only thing he can do. Bee Queen, Dragonfly, Twins, Toadstool, at least until last phase, not to mention non-boss encounters like ruins clearing and seasonal bosses/Ancient Guardian. Plus fighting is by far not the only thing he can do when i meant CC It was crowd Control, not Celestial Sorry for not being specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, edulopes said: Well any caracter can do that too, some better some worse Those are the fights where he shines. 22 minutes ago, edulopes said: And more he only os able to do those figths because of the pillars destroys the aà of most mobs, That is fair for Dragonfly and Twins, but not for other fights. Moreover, until patched, those 2 are still fights where Maxwell shines. When (if) devs patch those fights, exact way they fix those bosses will determine whether it's better to use Maxwell-specific things or generic strategies to fight them. 22 minutes ago, edulopes said: durabilty or easy spam, They are quite durable (2 minutes), and even if they die, they are cheap to spawn. I view uncancellable long casting as interesting downside (one needs to weave casting in general fight workflow) and tradeoff for saving resources on weapons, armor and healing. Not to mention other unique advantages like canceling Crab King healing and not needing speed boosts nor pan flutes for Bee Queen fight. Loss of dps can be overcome with dps boost once duelists are out in most cases, but that part (about dps loss) I need to test myself first. Still, even if overall dps was between Wilson and Wigfrid (taking into account recasting, of course, and for situation when Maxwell fights himself as well) I would be fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Pig Princess said: Those are the fights where he shines. Mostly because of bugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 28 minutes ago, edulopes said: Wanda dont need food, She dont need It, shopping tô eat is sn dps loss, and Maxwell have to eat often than other caracters On the flipside she can't heal as efficiently as other characters while requiring her to keep on edge of death to keep maximum dps.  25 minutes ago, edulopes said: The best part of his kit is Just wicker books This is like saying the best part of Wolfgang's kit is his dumbell toss.  32 minutes ago, edulopes said: Where faster Codex cancela would make bom the best? Where more tanky shadows would make him the best Was he the best when his shadows dealth 60 damage? Making his codex fast, duelists always do 60 damage, and have them hold aggro completely while being extremely cheap does in fact make him insanely strong which I'd imagine is why it's not a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, Pig Princess said: canceling Crab King What? They didnt have enough atk speed for that at least in last patch thalz tried i tried, i could not manage 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: On the flipside she can't heal as efficiently as other characters while requiring her to keep on edge of death to keep maximum dps Making lessened the need of using her clocks, and being totally safe because of nigth armor 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Making his codex fast, duelists always do 60 damage, and have them hold aggro completely while being extremely cheap does in fact make him insanely strong which I'd imagine is why it's not a thing. Thats why one of the thingd being inplemented not all 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: This is like saying the best part of Wolfgang's kit is his dumbell toss At least Wolfgang can do The dumbells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, edulopes said: Making lessened the need of using her clocks, and being totally safe because of nigth armor Unless I'm somehow remembering wrong at old age even with night armor she's only about 4-6 hits away from death while Maxwell can take far more damage in night armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Just now, Mysterious box said: Unless I'm somehow remembering wrong at old age even with night armor she's only about 4 hits away from death while Maxwell can take far more damage in night armor. I dont remeber well but i am certain that IS até minimum 8 hits So... for starters Wanda should have woodie treatment, he Lost the sanity regen via planting Pine cones An ability from wormwood She should drain sanity when using nigth tolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, edulopes said: At least Wolfgang can do The dumbells At least Maxwell can have followers pick up and harvest resources, carry a extra chest in his pocket that can be used to transfer resources to base without ever needing to go there, and can trap and panic mobs as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, edulopes said: What? They didnt have enough atk speed for that at least in last patch thalz tried i tried, i could not manage Even if it's not complete canceling, it's good enough to not need weather pain, plus duelists themselves add a lot of damage to compensate for some heals that make it through. It's like Abigail for Fuelweaver: sure, she is less reliable than weather pain to kill all wooven shadows, but those couple of shadows that FW eats in the end give FW less healing than Abigail adds via being present in the fight (her own damage and +0.405x for Wendy compared to her own 0.75x (comparison holds even against Wilson with 1x actually, although barely if that Wilson is good enough)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Starting to make some low nerfs on ver tô be on par with the rest of the cast 1 minute ago, Pig Princess said: Even if it's not complete canceling, it's good enough to not need weather pain, plus duelists themselves add a lot of damage to compensate for some heals that make it through. It's like Abigail for Fuelweaver: sure, she is less reliable than weather pain to kill all wooven shadows, but those couple of shadows that FW eats in the end give FW less healing than Abigail adds via being present in the fight (her own damage and +0.405x for Wendy compared to her own 0.75x (comparison holds even against Wilson with 1x actually)) Dont forget Wendy does Full damage or more when Abby is on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 minute ago, edulopes said: Starting to make some low nerfs on ver tô be on par with the rest of the cast Dont forget Wendy does Full damage or more when Abby is on Did you read my comment actually? I took that into account. Wendy does 1.155x under Abigail buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 minute ago, edulopes said: I dont remeber well but i am certain that IS até minimum 8 hits So... for starters Wanda should have woodie treatment, he Lost the sanity regen via planting Pine cones An ability from wormwood She should drain sanity when using nigth tolls So your saying a character that already has the lowest defense threshold in the game when playing optimally, becomes less efficient at working when old, and has limited healing options should lose one of her major upsides? Can't wait to see what nerf you suggest for Maxwell to be fair since his downside seems trivial compared to that at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: At least Maxwell can have followers pick up and harvest resources, carry a extra chest in his pocket that can be used to transfer resources to base without ever needing to go there, and can trap and panic mobs as well... Pânic is an joke... It only makes things harder Extra chest only if the Maxwell player isnt an solo egomniac that dont know how to share, because to transfer Anyone can do It Just place chest And Every persol Will use his slots too 2 minutes ago, Pig Princess said: Did you read my comment actually? I took that into account. Wendy does 1.155x under Abigail buff oh i read it, was just dumb on the math sorry 2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: So your saying a character that already has the lowest defense threshold in the game when playing optimally, becomes less efficient at working when old, and has limited healing options should lose one of her major upsides? Can't wait to see what nerf you suggest for Maxwell to be fair since his downside seems trivial compared to that at that point. in my eyes the clock is better than having to heal, it is an upside... but maxwell is still weaker than wolf and wicker, wurt, warly and some others should wanda be nerfed, there is still ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, edulopes said: Anyone can do It Just place chest And who will build this chest? That's right, Maxwell! Also magician hat is portable, I can't wait to play as Maxwell after rework goes live with my newbie friend because of magician's hat and shadow chester Edit: oh god, this auto-correct on phone kills me :_( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, edulopes said: Pânic is an joke... It only makes things harder A trap that you can setup in multiple areas in advance and stops multiple monsters from being able to fight you does not make things harder it's use is to give you breathing room if things get out of hand or you need more time which is really good.  5 minutes ago, edulopes said: Extra chest only if the Maxwell player isnt an solo egomniac that dont know how to share, because to transfer Anyone can do It Just place chest And Every persol Will use his slots too When solo it's a free chest and as a group it's a transportation tool your group uses to quickly transfer things to base for example you can take everything from the ruins in one trip while having as many resources as you need since it's a 2 way chest it's a very powerful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 in the end i am against all type of nerf in a coop game, but look maxwell need a little more... not damage, but some QQL that i already said and everyone compares the top dogs and or complain, so if not buff maxwell and the rest of cast nerf them to be equal as the others 2 minutes ago, Pig Princess said: And who will build this chest? That's right, Maxwell!  but tell me would it be diferent from being a root chest for example? i would get wormwood place and change caracters, would not make any diference....  3 minutes ago, Pig Princess said: Edit: oh god, this auto-correct on phone kills me :_( i feel your pain i am PT BR, was on the phone just untill now jesus it tries to fix in PT not EN 3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: When solo it's a free chest and as a group it's a transportation tool your group uses to quickly transfer things to base for example you can take everything from the ruins in one trip while having as many resources as you need since it's a 2 way chest. and when i go back.. wanda can do it too  and more wanda only do the trip one time...  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, edulopes said: in the end i am against all type of nerf in a coop game, but look maxwell need a little more... not damage, but some QQL that i already said and everyone compares the top dogs and or complain, so if not buff maxwell and the rest of cast nerf them to be equal as the others Who is above Maxwell atm tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Just now, Mysterious box said: Who is above Maxwell atm tho? atm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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