Suggestion for shadow thurible

[ThymeSpirit]

It was mentioned several times that using the thurible currently makes you lose dps because you're not participating in the fight. However, I thought that instead of making it a weapon, it would make more sense to further improve its use for the caster strategy by giving it functionality for controlling the duelists better:

• Retreat mode - they stop attacking and teleport to Maxwell
• Attack mode - they reengage the fight
• Taunt - they draw enemy aggro from Maxwell to themselves
• Consume - kills the duelists and restores some sanity (after removing the sanity cap, so you can end up with higher sanity than if they get killed normally)
• Maybe some other abilities

This change would allow the player to choose the strategy they prefer - either be a berserk and fight along the duelists using the dark sword, or be a true puppet master and use the thurible to control them better.

[GreenBowers]

Could have it have a more special interaction with the Reanimated Skeletons if Maxwell is using it, since he's a Puppet master, and the item lets you pseudo control one. Spooky Boy. It could act as a sort of end game 'summon' if you could reasonably control it in tandem with your duelists.

[LeafyFly]

4 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

It was mentioned several times that using the thurible currently makes you lose dps because you're not participating in the fight.

You can fight with an ornery beefalo while you hold a shadow thurible.

[ThymeSpirit]

10 hours ago, LeafyFly said:

You can fight with an ornery beefalo while you hold a shadow thurible.

People shouldn't be forced into a single playstyle, the whole point of my suggestion is to give different options, not force everyone to play the same.

[LeafyFly]

3 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

People shouldn't be forced into a single playstyle, the whole point of my suggestion is to give different options, not force everyone to play the same.

There is no denying that some playstyles have more advantages. Beefaloes are important items for Maxwell who only has 75 HP. You can give it a try.

[ThymeSpirit]

7 hours ago, LeafyFly said:

There is no denying that some playstyles have more advantages. Beefaloes are important items for Maxwell who only has 75 HP. You can give it a try.

I enjoy using beefalos, but I don't see how their existance invalidates my suggestion for an interesting mechanic.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

People shouldn't be forced into a single playstyle, the whole point of my suggestion is to give different options, not force everyone to play the same.

who is forcing you? you have plenty of shadow items to buff your duelists

[ThymeSpirit]

52 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

who is forcing you? you have plenty of shadow items to buff your duelists

You guys are weird. "We don't want a new mechanic to make a character more diverse and nuanced to play, because we already have useful things".

If forumites designed DST there would be no characters except Wilson because why make another if Wilson can already do everything in the game.

[LeafyFly]

6 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

I enjoy using beefalos, but I don't see how their existance invalidates my suggestion for an interesting mechanic.

I just don't think there's anything wrong with the shadow thurible simply strengthening Maxwell with a beefalo.

[Pig Princess]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:59 PM, LeafyFly said:

You can fight with an ornery beefalo while you hold a shadow thurible.

But in exchange for combined power one would need to manage: spells, Maxwell himself, possible additional functions of thurible, and one would need to have beefalo + being extra careful with it. It seems like a lot to take care of.

It reminds me about my Wendy lights out world were I decided to fight Dragonfly with maximum possible damage output that doesn't require switching character: I was kiting myself, counting time until I should desummon Abigail to avoid her being killed by enraged stomp, ate banana shakes to keep crown on (and still avoiding hits), switched between cane and morning star, switched between thulecite suit and rain coat (rain coat for most of the fight and suit to tank first hit), as well as switching to water balloons periodically to keep Dragonfly fully wet. That was quite an experience, and that considering I blocked larvaes with walls...

Edit: for those who are not aware: Dragonfly gains wetness only when loaded, so I had to use some water balloons to raise her wetness to 100% for full electric damage, and rain stopped mid-fight; I desummoned Abi in time and didn't let Dfly engage and reset wetness to 0, bit still she was drying off on her own once rain stopped. Choosing dark swords might be wiser, but I wanted to use morning star and couldn't make rain prolong.

[ThymeSpirit]

15 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

But in exchange for combined power one would need to manage: spells, Maxwell himself, possible additional functions of thurible, and one would need to have beefalo + being extra careful with it. It seems like a lot to take care of.

You also need to have a war saddle for the beefalo to have damage comparable to a dark sword, and that requires hunting for a ewecus, which is very rng-dependent. Beefalos are designed to be an optional commodity that requires a lot of dedicated effort to obtain, which makes shadow thurible's use for buffing duelists extremely niche in its current state.

[BB Marioni]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:34 PM, GreenBowers said:

Could have it have a more special interaction with the Reanimated Skeletons if Maxwell is using it, since he's a Puppet master, and the item lets you pseudo control one. Spooky Boy. It could act as a sort of end game 'summon' if you could reasonably control it in tandem with your duelists.

would love if the reanimated skeleton would become a follower for Maxwell
Even if they don't make it attack in the overworld, would still use it for farming coz it looks cool XD

[LeafyFly]

4 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

You also need to have a war saddle for the beefalo to have damage comparable to a dark sword, and that requires hunting for a ewecus, which is very rng-dependent. Beefalos are designed to be an optional commodity that requires a lot of dedicated effort to obtain, which makes shadow thurible's use for buffing duelists extremely niche in its current state.

At least on our server almost everyone has a beefalo. In fact, a race saddle is enough to fight bosses if you don't go for maximun damage. Ewecuses are not very rare.

20 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

But in exchange for combined power one would need to manage: spells, Maxwell himself, possible additional functions of thurible, and one would need to have beefalo + being extra careful with it. It seems like a lot to take care of.

It reminds me about my Wendy lights out world were I decided to fight Dragonfly with maximum possible damage output that doesn't require switching character: I was kiting myself, counting time until I should desummon Abigail to avoid her being killed by enraged stomp, ate banana shakes to keep crown on (and still avoiding hits), switched between cane and morning star, switched between thulecite suit and rain coat (rain coat for most of the fight and suit to tank first hit), as well as switching to water balloons periodically to keep Dragonfly fully wet. That was quite an experience, and that considering I blocked larvaes with walls...

Edit: for those who are not aware: Dragonfly gains wetness only when loaded, so I had to use some water balloons to raise her wetness to 100% for full electric damage, and rain stopped mid-fight; I desummoned Abi in time and didn't let Dfly engage and reset wetness to 0, bit still she was drying off on her own once rain stopped. Choosing dark swords might be wiser, but I wanted to use morning star and couldn't make rain prolong.

Do you mean a beefalo makes battles harder? That's not true in most cases, as far as I know. For example, you can fight Dragonfly with a beefalo instead of walls and panflutes.

[ThymeSpirit]

54 minutes ago, LeafyFly said:

At least on our server almost everyone has a beefalo.

On our servers I'm usually the only one who does. I rarely see anyone tame beefalo on pubs too.

54 minutes ago, LeafyFly said:

Ewecuses are not very rare.

They start from 2,5% chance to spawn on day 1, and increase to 16,5% by day 100. And you need to do hunts, which most players don't do, because it's considered a waste of time. If you compare them to a krampus sack, then of course they're not very rare. But then consider that a walrus tusk is a 50% drop from mactusk, and a tam is 25%, and people still always want triple mactusk setpiece. And obviously on a 200-500 day world, nothing is really rare.

Why are we even arguing about beefalo, Maxwell is a shadow puppeteer, my suggestion was about that. Why do you want him to be a beefalo rider, it's not what his character is about. This is not relevant, please make a new topic if you want to discuss beefalo advantages.

[LeafyFly]

2 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

Why are we even arguing about beefalo, Maxwell is a shadow puppeteer, my suggestion was about that. Why do you want him to be a beefalo rider, it's not what his character is about. This is not relevant, please make a new topic if you want to discuss beefalo advantages.

But he is well suited to be a rider. A beefalo is helpful in protecting his fragile body. And when he tame a beefalo, he can have his servants gather resources for him even before this rework.

[ThymeSpirit]

20 hours ago, LeafyFly said:

But he is well suited to be a rider. A beefalo is helpful in protecting his fragile body. And when he tame a beefalo, he can have his servants gather resources for him even before this rework.

A beefalo has 1000 hp and takes 100% of damage. Maxwell has 75 hp and only takes 5% of damage when in shadow suit. 1000 damage that kills a beefalo will only damage Maxwell for 50, which he can quickly heal back with pierogi, unlike beefalo which you need to dismount first and then feed it either a ton of blue mushrooms or some beefalo treats. If the beefalo gets hit by the enemy during this time of not being ridden, you've lost your beefalo - it will start attacking by itself and you can't mount it. Maxwell is safer fighting without a beefalo in shadow armor. And bone armor gives you invincibility as long as you don't get hit too often. I don't think it works when riding a beefalo. Beefalos are only good for Maxwell if you want to save resources on making weapons and armor.

[LeafyFly]

3 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

A beefalo has 1000 hp and takes 100% of damage. Maxwell has 75 hp and only takes 5% of damage when in shadow suit. 1000 damage that kills a beefalo will only damage Maxwell for 50, which he can quickly heal back with pierogi, unlike beefalo which you need to dismount first and then feed it either a ton of blue mushrooms or some beefalo treats. If the beefalo gets hit by the enemy during this time of not being ridden, you've lost your beefalo - it will start attacking by itself and you can't mount it. Maxwell is safer fighting without a beefalo in shadow armor. And bone armor gives you invincibility as long as you don't get hit too often. I don't think it works when riding a beefalo. Beefalos are only good for Maxwell if you want to save resources on making weapons and armor.

I don't want to talk about more advantages of beefaloes. You're right. Both playstyles have advantages and disadvantages. So knights get thuribles, and footmen get swords. That's fair now.

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

A beefalo has 1000 hp and takes 100% of damage. Maxwell has 75 hp and only takes 5% of damage when in shadow suit. 1000 damage that kills a beefalo will only damage Maxwell for 50, which he can quickly heal back with pierogi, unlike beefalo which you need to dismount first and then feed it either a ton of blue mushrooms or some beefalo treats. If the beefalo gets hit by the enemy during this time of not being ridden, you've lost your beefalo - it will start attacking by itself and you can't mount it. Maxwell is safer fighting without a beefalo in shadow armor. And bone armor gives you invincibility as long as you don't get hit too often. I don't think it works when riding a beefalo. Beefalos are only good for Maxwell if you want to save resources on making weapons and armor.

Night armor is expensive, requires you to heal, and deals 10% sanity damage which is a big deal when you only need to lose 30 sanity to spawn shadows. It may offer more absolute protection in a vacuum but there are a lot of drawbacks to it.

[AtheistWillCart]

Imagine if Maxwell could mount on Reanimated Skeleton while using Shadow Thurible? ****** cool

[GreenBowers]

1 minute ago, AtheistWillCart said:

Imagine if Maxwell could mount on Reanimated Skeleton while using Shadow Thurible? ****** cool

Any unique interaction with it would be incredible. Imagine Maxwell rolling up with an army of 6 duelists and a reanimated skeleton to clap a boss.