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Make sleeping viable


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The uses for tent, siesta-lean-to, straw roll and fur roll should be increased. My suggestion is to make tent and sieasta uses indefinite as people keep clicking in and out of those without understanding how they work or how little durability they actually have, or have it be timed and last for a long time. Straw rolls should have durability instead of being single-use, as they are really awful for getting sanity considering how much grass they cost. Fur rolls are in a similar vein, but just need more durability. I would suggest 10 durability for both minimum.

They are rather slow at regenerating health and sanity but that's fine, so long as they don't take up too much hunger, but they do. Sleeping could be an easy early game strategy to regain sanity for new players in all honesty but the game does not encourage it because of how wasteful sleeping really is compared to how easy new players can lose sanity and health. If these items were buffed, not only would better players take use of them in more dire situations, but it could become the go-to suggestion for new players, as they could look at the crafting menu at the same time while their character sleeps, being able to find out what it is they can craft and need for crafting once they wake up.

This also affects the skin economy as none will really care about having skins for these since they ultimately as so awful to use. Straw roll should also be removed from the health section as it only regenerates sanity and not health, or it should regenerate health as well but slower than fur roll to balance it out.

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Sleeping is always viable to me. It's just I most likely have better options than sleeping. But it doesn't make the current sleeping not viable.

 

The current hunger->hp conversion rate is reasonable.

The current cost of silk, rope, twigs or logs per sleep is also reasonable.

 

healing salve (rock, 2 ashes, spider gland) heals 20

one sleep in night tent (1.5 grass, 0.67 twig, 1 silk (equivalent to 1 gland)) heals potentially 100+ health converted from hunger, which is reasonable in comparison.

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16 hours ago, goatt said:

Sleeping is always viable to me. It's just I most likely have better options than sleeping. But it doesn't make the current sleeping not viable.

 

The current hunger->hp conversion rate is reasonable.

The current cost of silk, rope, twigs or logs per sleep is also reasonable.

 

healing salve (rock, 2 ashes, spider gland) heals 20

one sleep in night tent (1.5 grass, 0.67 twig, 1 silk (equivalent to 1 gland)) heals potentially 100+ health converted from hunger, which is reasonable in comparison.

For you, who's more experienced, maybe. But for multiple set of new players it is not. 6 silk? That's 24 spiders to be killed on average since they have 25% chance to drop one. And for what? 5 uses of the tent if you get some rope and twigs, assuming you also already have the Alchemy Engine built. For a new player that is way too costly for what it provides. Keep in mind they may click the tent, then click a key and instantly use up a durability, having restored nothing and it does happen quite a few times. If it was infinite or 10 times or so more durability, or maybe instead to have the durability tied to how long it is used AND it lasting for a very long time (up to 5 days length for example), it would be much more reasonable for the cost to them.

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4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

But for multiple set of new players it is not. 6 silk?

New players being new players, they can destroy (lvl1) spider dens to get silk. They can use pig friends to destroy spiders inefficiently, they can find massive amount of silk naturally in swamp. Or they can heal in other means, such as gland, during spider killing. Maybe they can die, because they are new. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

For a new player that is way too costly for what it provides

Again, they can die and come back as a better new player. Death is an important part of the experience to new players.

 

4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Keep in mind they may click the tent, then click a key and instantly use up a durability

I don't consider misclicks as concerns of game design. It's part of UI&UX design. It's also part of learning process for new players.

In any game, a misclick is a misclick, games shouldn't bend to misclicks. When I misclick, I said in my head "oh sh*t, I misclicked", not "game is unfair because I misclicked".

 

4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

If it was infinite or 10 times or so more durability, or maybe instead to have the durability tied to how long it is used AND it lasting for a very long time (up to 5 days length for example), it would be much more reasonable for the cost to them.

Whatever mechanism you suggested, time-based or number-based, it needs to be equivalent or similar to tent's current cost because it is reasonable as is.

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Never actually used up the one tent I built in my solo world. Mained Wickerbottom, then switched to Wormwood, so I didn't even know it still had an instant on-use durability cost. Anyway, I am more familiar with how sleeping items work in other versions of the game, and especially knowing that DST's tents consume a full use's durability for just an instant of use does raise concern regarding balance.

The reason why I used the tent so few times that it never ran out of durability was because I'm not at all a fan of needing to just stay there and do nothing while my health/sanity is slowly restored. I would think a simple fix would be to return tents and similar items to the way they work in other versions of Don't Starve, minus the time skipping of course. Use the item, gain fixed amount of sanity and health, at a cost of hunger and durability. A possible and rational concession to accidental misuse could be only triggering the effect if the player spends at least 1 block of time in the tent, with spending more time producing no added benefit or cost, save for keeping Charlie at bay.

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18 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

For a new player that is way too costly for what it provides. Keep in mind they may click the tent, then click a key and instantly use up a durability, having restored nothing and it does happen quite a few times. If it was infinite or 10 times or so more durability, or maybe instead to have the durability tied to how long it is used AND it lasting for a very long time (up to 5 days length for example), it would be much more reasonable for the cost to them.

To me this issue doesn't seem like a "sleeping isn't viable" issue it seems like a "new players get tunnel visioned on sleeping" issue

Not to mention the issue can be resolved by making the tent lose durability based on a timer instead of amount of uses to prevent misclicks instead of just doing something like making tent last forever

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a timer on the tent might be nice, as long as it's the same as however long the tent could potentially last without a timer, beyond that, I don't find anything wrong with the tent... just that noobs can ruin the tent by using it stupidly and robbing it of the person that built it. T_T

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On 8/9/2022 at 8:53 AM, JustExo said:

To me this issue doesn't seem like a "sleeping isn't viable" issue it seems like a "new players get tunnel visioned on sleeping" issue

Not to mention the issue can be resolved by making the tent lose durability based on a timer instead of amount of uses to prevent misclicks instead of just doing something like making tent last forever

I suggested that as a potential option, if you read back? Making it time-based (and lasting a VERY long time) or having so much durability, a dozen noobs missclicking to sleep or missclicking to not sleep several times isn't going to mean much and they will all still be able to benefit from it. Infinite durability is just . Because of such issues right now, it only is a decent item ofr intermediate players, and for the best of the best it's not even worth the time.

New players WILL get tunnel-visioned for sleeping by default as a solution to a given problem (sanity and to some extent health), we all know that. So devs should support that behavior, not allow them to be stupidly handicapped with miss-clicks and losing basically the same amount of health they'll restroe making something like a tent, because it wasn't made abundantly clear exactly how much you have to walk on eggshells in this game, and that once you do you will become unstoppable. It is unreasonable, it has always been unreasonable, and it will continue to be unless it is changed to better fit new players. From there on, they can actually learn as they have plenty of sanity and health to spare more often, instead of having something to clutch on until they dig up guides or quit the game.

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I never considered the possibility of tents being on a day counter, than a times used counter, and I really like it.

Part of walters upside is his tent is not only portable, but has 10 uses. So his tent should still last longer and be portable. 

I think straw rolls are meant to be bad. The wool roll restores HP and is much better, consider characters like wormwood for example, early game this is a staple item. I think this game has items which aren't super great intentionally. Keeps difficulty up, makes a noob trap (which is much of this games appeal), and gives lesser powerful options which are far easier for newer players to manage.

Example rabbit Earmuffs. Most new players are feeding themselves off rabbits and now that same concept they're familiar with is keeping them warm, vs messing with beefalo and Spiders. Sure it's less good of an item than a winter hat, however the entry bar for the item is considerably lower.

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