A Closed-Loop Abyssalite Flaker

[Occam Blazer]

Presenting a late-game abyssalite flaker for producing tungsten.

This is based on other players' designs, particularly @GreezyHammerr, @muzambi, /u/veldsla, and /u/mukca. Thanks to them for the previous work.

Background Flaking is a game mechanic where liquids or solids phase up when two adjacent tiles have a significant temperature differential, forming a 5kg chunk from the flaked tile. It happens most often when crude oil is exposed to very hot abyssalite from the magma biome and boils into sour gas. When cool abyssalite is next to a very hot gas it will weep 5kg chunks of tungsten at regular intervals. Tungsten is useful in high-temperature builds and for producing thermium. Tungsten is a scarce resource while abyssalite is plentiful and mostly useless.

This machine uses molten steel as a heat source to warm chlorine gas to around 3,500°C which acts as the donor to flake the abyssalite. This design has been running in survival for 100 cycles and produces about half a kilo of tungsten per second - or 370 kg per cycle. It consumes abyssalite and copper ore.

Mechanics Liquid steel contained in the reservoir transmits heat through the diamond tiles into chlorine. The reservoir does not overheat because it doesn't interact with the tiles below it (and is in a vacuum). Once the steel drops below 3,500° it is sent to a metal refinery which produces copper to reheat the molten steel. The copper process adds around 200° to the steel "coolant".

Spoiler

The parent abyssalite tile will lose mass as tungsten weeps from it. Luckily, an automatic dispenser pointed at it will replenish the mass when fed more abyssalite. As tungsten exits the system via conveyor rail a pair of meters control the replenishment rate. For every 50kg of tungsten that leaves another 50kg of abyssalite comes in.

Spoiler

The exiting tungsten goes through the bottom-left meter while the incoming abyssalite is held back by the top meter. When the exit meter reaches 50kg - or other arbitrary number - it resets itself and the incoming meter. The abyssalite drops to the floor and the sweeper feeds it into the automatic dispenser.

Materials This build requires about 7,000 kg of insulation for the four insulated tiles surrounding the hot chlorine and the insulated pipes conveying molten steel. I'm using about 3,500 kg of steel as coolant.

Spoiler

Build Plan

I constructed this machine near space in case something catastrophic happened. 3,500°C is extreme and will easily produce rock gas if the the heat escapes. Steel vaporizes around 3,800° and a metal refinery will happily add enough heat to achieve that. The vacuum of space don't give a f.

You can't build this in space itself because the chlorine gas needs something to contain it. The only backing building capable of handling these operating temperatures is diamond tempshift plates, which would probably be a bad idea. Anything else will turn into rock gas. (The wiki says you can build a tempshift plate out of insulation, but it would probably flake too.)

1. Okay, build the outer walls and vacuum the area.
2. Use a wolframite gas vent and radiant gas pipe to deliver about 4kg of chlorine to the flaking chamber. They will melt into tungsten when the machine gets going and the tungsten will be extracted.
3. Build all the things.
4. Make molten steel and pump it into the reservoir.
5. Save and restart the game because the reservoir probably won't start exchanging heat with the diamond before then.
6. The molten steel will be a little cool, so make a few batches of steel in the refinery to supercharge the system.
7. Set the refinery to produce copper forever.
8. Enjoy your tungsten

This turned out to be quite easy to build and very reliable. I definitely need to dedicate a dupe to this machine to increase its thermium throughput.

 

[bethypso]

Nice compact build!

Heat transmitting reservoir is very ingenious.

The only drawback I see is the limited supply of copper. Cooling steel a little bit before entering the refinery could allow use of steel refining, making it properly sustainable.

 

[Prince Mandor]

51 minutes ago, bethypso said:

The only drawback I see is the limited supply of copper. Cooling steel a little bit before entering the refinery could allow use of steel refining, making it properly sustainable.

Steel heating steel by 600C, this is too much. But with proper amount of chlorine (1.5 kg per tile) and by setting sensor to 3450C you can smelt everything else. Most important -- you can smelt thermium, creating niobium, flaking tungsten by heat of this process and crafting thermium from niobium and tungsten. In perfect conditions this cycle is heat-positive. In reality there are some heat lost to heating up abyssalite, so you need to smelt something else occasionally

[mukca]

the best example of the use of mechanics.

can be smaller

my old version
now with new counters it is generally easy to manage the amount of abyssalite.

you can use not only steel, but any metal suitable for temperature, niobium, uranium (for DLS)

 

[degr]

Couple days ago I start to flake abyssalyte (I always  want, but this thread was my inspiration). Here is my setup:

It looks same as @Occam Blazer build, but:

1. liquid tungesten used as medium instead of liquid steel

2. it have two chambers (but look like not work so good as I expect, could be optimized)

3. metal refinary bake steel instead of copper

Initial idea was - I can use 4150C tungesten to bake steel, and got 5800C liquid tungesten to flake abyssalyte. I prepare 4tons of liquid tungesten, but flaking process was too long, refinary return 5800C, but then it was mixed with ~4000 tungesten in a tank, and as result I got ~300kg of tungesten from cycle.

So, I add second chamber. It change everythin. I did not measure how much tungesten produced, but as I see, during an active phase, when I have only 5800С tungesten in a jar, flaking process faster then replenishment.

After tungesten become colder then 5000C, it going into second jar, replenishment process become faster then flaking again

During that phase I flaking happens in both chambers. Slowly tungesten from first chamber going into second, and then into metal refinary. At that moment abyssalite tile in first chamber recovered, and everything starts from beginning. During all that time flaking in second chamber going non-stop.

[Prince Mandor]

How many chlorine in capsule for such temperatures, and how hot it became after some usage?

I usually build flakers as soon as I refine 1200 steel for AT. And my main problem with steel-based flakers, after some hundreds of cycles, chlorine became too hot and heat up back too fast, not allowing tungsten to solidify. And its on 3450C

How it works with 5000C ? How hot chlorine became?

What is a purpose of insulated tile above abyssalite?

[Occam Blazer]

After running this design for a while, and doing more reading from the original research, I have a number of refinements that I'd like to make to this design. Once I test those in survival I'll present the changes in a new thread. Prototype is about five times faster than this one.

I'd also like to run some numbers using a refinery to turn thermium to niobium for a super-renewable system. (Yes, I know I'll lose tungsten doing it this way.)

7 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

How many chlorine in capsule for such temperatures, and how hot it became after some usage?

I used 2kg per tile in two tiles. My refinements will use ~42kg in one tile for more thermal mass, which stabilizes the system a little better. The chlorine stays around 3,600C.

7 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

And my main problem with steel-based flakers, after some hundreds of cycles, chlorine became too hot and heat up back too fast, not allowing tungsten to solidify.

The next version will use two tiles of gas lead to solidify the liquid tungsten after it flakes. Lead is heavier than chlorine and has great thermal conductivity for a gas. In testing I had no problems.

I'm not sure why your chlorine is heating up too much. In my experience some of the chlorine's heat goes into the abyssalite tile and the incoming abyssalite cools that tile down.

 

But before I get to that I have a small petrol boiler and a large geothermal plant to move and a giant pool of magma to combine with the magma biome. And then a new geothermal power plant to harness ~6.1kg/sec of magma. Should be a fun weekend.

[degr]

10 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

How many chlorine in capsule for such temperatures

I drop 15 kg, @Occam Blazer told he have 2 kg, may be that is why my outcome worse them him (from one chamber)

 

10 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

How it works with 5000C

it grow to 3420, then tungesten chill it to 3400. It did not grow more.

 

10 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

What is a purpose of insulated tile above abyssalite

it's secret

[Prince Mandor]

28 minutes ago, degr said:

I drop 15 kg, @Occam Blazer told he have 2 kg, may be that is why my outcome worse them him (from one chamber)

15 kg total, or per tile? It cannot be 2 kg total, because ~1.5 per tile is a minimum for flaking

37 minutes ago, degr said:

it grow to 3420, then tungesten chill it to 3400. It did not grow more.

No, it doesn't work this way. Tungsten by itself is hot. Chlorine drops in temperature and solidify tungsten

38 minutes ago, degr said:

it's secret

Okay, then I think it is just for esthetic and symmetry

[Prince Mandor]

3 hours ago, Occam Blazer said:

The chlorine stays around 3,600C.

But what magical force cool down tungsten then?

3 hours ago, Occam Blazer said:

use two tiles of gas lead to solidify the liquid tungsten

I tried to use CO2, but not played long enough to tell

Also I tried L-shaped capsule (one tile of chlorine, two tiles of CO2 horizontally)

3 hours ago, Occam Blazer said:

I'm not sure why your chlorine is heating up too much

I try to explain.

Molten steal heats up diamond. Diamond heats up chlorine. Flaking happens. Now we have liquid tungsten and it must be cooled by 6C to became solid. Also flaking instantly drops temperature of chlorine. And cold (relatively) Chlorine cool down tungsten. And cycle repeats.

This system works, but somehow slowly accumulates heat. And at some points, chlorine, after cooling, come back to flaking temperature faster than tungsten cool down. And I will have a pond of molten tungsten with 3406C (0.1C above solidifying)

Strangely, I never had this problem while using older method, with pool of liquid steel and naphta-tricked pump. It happens only after i change to reservoir-on-diamond method

[degr]

So, it is still not work for 100% effective, but I'm satisfied, and want keep it as is:

Now it work next way:

jar on right top contains around 1 tons 5700C tungsten, it is stash.

Jars on bottom contains around 800kd of tungesten, most probably it make sense to keep it around 400 (to make metal refinery cook 1 portion of steel), and for more fast cooling. Not sure, need to test.

When tungsten in bottom jars become cold, it going into refinary, from refinary it going into stash.

While sensor nearby bottom jars detect tungsten, it block replenishment from stash, when no tungsten, it starts replenishment with 83 sec buffer, so replenishment is around 800 kg. While replenishment cycle is active, loop in jars blocked by liquid shutoff nearby bottom jars.

Pipes overlay:

Spoiler

Automation overlay:

Spoiler

PS as I see, flaking chamber should be not "horisontal" but vertical. For my build 2 chambers is not enough, most probably you need 3 or even more for max effectiveness.

 

 

13 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

15 kg total, or per tile?

per tile, I try to do 3 tiles chamber with 10kg per tile, and I see difference - in 3 tiles chamber (10kg per tile) temperature fall down to 3390, while in 2 tiles chamber(15kg per tile) temperature fall down to 3350. Think less chlorine should be better.

 

13 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

No, it doesn't work this way. Tungsten by itself is hot. Chlorine drops in temperature and solidify tungsten

Have no idea how it works, I can see only how chlorine temperature changes.

[degr]

I got result, around 1300kg per cycle:

Burgeoning Spacepad Cycle 22.sav

[Occam Blazer]

Here's the prototype for version two. It's about twice as fast.

 

[degr]

I did not get how it work. Savefile into studio!

[Occam Blazer]

1 hour ago, degr said:

I did not get how it work. Savefile into studio!

 

I added more mass for thermal stability. We use chlorine because it conducts heat poorly and doesn't heat the abyssalite. We use lead gas because it conducts heat well and cools the tungsten.

Edit just loaded this up and noticed the lead gas is being deleted, which breaks the speed. Perhaps putting the lead it two horizontal tiles will mitigate that. Attached a new save file.

Abyssalite Flaker.sav

[Prince Mandor]

9 hours ago, Occam Blazer said:

We use lead gas because it conducts heat well and cools the tungsten.

But what cools lead gas?

 

Another question, What is the purpose of all this tempshift plates? Thermal mass? Is thermal mass really helps?

[Occam Blazer]

19 minutes ago, Prince Mandor said:

But what cools lead gas?

Flaking. The donor cell - in this case chlorine - gives up heat to flake the abyssalite.

20 minutes ago, Prince Mandor said:

Another question, What is the purpose of all this tempshift plates? Thermal mass? Is thermal mass really helps?

Yep, thermal mass. Flaking happens when the donor cell is at least 3 °C above the parent’s phase up temperature. That's all that needs to happen. Thermal mass helps stabilize the process.

[Prince Mandor]

8 hours ago, Occam Blazer said:

Flaking. The donor cell - in this case chlorine - gives up heat to flake the abyssalite.

And why 'Chlorine -- Lead gas -- Liquid Tungsten' works better than 'Chlorine -- Liquid Tungsten' ?

[degr]

@Occam Blazer, I try your build with liquid tungsten, and got 1000kg per 3 cycle, around 300kg per cycle

Unfortunately, dupe bake only one portion of steal (instead of 2) and temperature was not so good as I expect. However, I see liquid steel is better then liquid tungsten, if we are talking about "flaking speed". But, with liquid tungsten I can bake steel instead of copper, and it's everything for me, because I have no problems with refined metal, but always lack of metal ore. 

PS: also for flaking speed my scalable solution with "vertical" chambers and stash seems better then horizontal. 

[Pedro_L]

do i need to save abyssalite tiles for this or is there a way to make them myself?

[Occam Blazer]

1 hour ago, Pedro_L said:

do i need to save abyssalite tiles for this or is there a way to make them myself?

I don't know of a way to make abyssalite tiles. So save a few.

[tsotha]

I'm having trouble adding lead gas without either the chloine or the lead getting deleted over time.  Has anyone run this for a long period without that problem?

[Occam Blazer]

On 6/11/2022 at 8:46 PM, tsotha said:

I'm having trouble adding lead gas without either the chloine or the lead getting deleted over time.  Has anyone run this for a long period without that problem?

I have not tested the revised version long-term. I'm fooling around with something different right now but will get back around to this shortly. I think the most promising configuration is four tiles in an "L" shape. One chlorine adjacent to the abyssalite, two lead gas below that and a fourth lead gas to the left or right on the bottom.