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Firstly, I am a fan of the game from what I have experienced. (My Steam review:https://steamcommunity.com/id/OldManGamerOMG/recommended/457140/) I stopped playing, because after lengthy tests, I found some issues with my style of game play and the the games stability. Namely, the game has a cap on how much RAM it will use. This was my only problem, but one that became stressful to me, so I decided to take a break. I guess that I can drop the resolution, so that the RAM use will decrease, but figured I would ask first, to see if it was necessary, as it take multiple hours to get to that point, and had some other questions as well.

I played this game extensively not too long ago, but found several problems that inhibited my style of gameplay. More notably, the 15 GB RAM limit. I had 64 GB then and now 128. Has this changed or is it still a limiter.

Additionally, what are your thoughts on the DLC in comparison to the base game. If I remember correctly, I took a break from the game about a month before the DLC became available. In coming back to dabble for fun, especially if the RAM limit is no longer there or increased, would it be better to get the expansion, or wait for the bugs to be worked out. I really enjoyed the duplicates interaction more than anything in the game, but found creating the bases a close second. I would turn the entire play field into a large base, or at least try to.

Lastly, since I did not use mods all that much, would you suggest using mods. I tried a few here and there, but mostly found the mods helped with automation aspects. I think the only mods I consistently used were the increased container size (not the infinite storage though), and the space cooler thing, which was like the space heater, but in reverse. Drained a ton of power, but I would use it to turn gasses into liquid for easier management, to reduce the RAM use, since that seemed to be the biggest user of that resource at the time. This allowed me to do more before the game would crash at 15 GB RAM.

Cheers and Game On!

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Rather than being a hard limit, i think that's probably just how much RAM the game needs. It could be the crashes aren't related to RAM usage at all, just that they happen to occur about when the game gets to that stage. Actually for the crashes you should try filing a bug report next time it happens. Crashes are always something that devs want to fix if they can, just they usually only happen in specific circumstances which can be hard to pin down without a good report. It's also unlikely to be graphics-related, as that usage shouldn't change much over the course of the game.

As far as mods go, it's a bit of a personal preference thing. I use a lot of quality-of-life mods, and have a personal rule that i don't use mods which change the core gameply (like making things easier or adding buildings), but that's just my preference. If you think the game would be more enjoyable with a certain mod then by all means try it out. In particular for me there are some aspects of the base game that just get annoying (like the deconstruct tool defaulting back to "all" every time... urgh). Many mods just tweak little things like this to let me enjoy the game more. The good thing about mods is that they don't have to apply to everyone, so they let you play the game how you, personally, like to.

As for the question about the DLC, if you like making one huge central megabase, you might be happiest sticking with the vanilla game. But then if you like making bases from scratch you might like the DLC. Spaced Out expands rocketry, makes it available way earlier, and lets you have many bases across multiple smaller asteroids. It plays quite differently, so you're not missing out by first playing the base game then starting a new DLC game later when it's properly released.

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You don't need nearly as much RAM as that. Plenty of people play with a lot less RAM than that without any issue. RAM amount is not a performance limiter (though RAM timing may be, but increasing RAM amount won't help for that).

On the other hand, one thing to be wary of is a well-known long standing memory leak: when you load a save, memory is not properly released. Reload often enough and the game will crash to an Out Of Memory issue. I reported that bug again a few months ago, but feel free to report it again

There is no other RAM bug I'm aware of (and I'm pretty sure we'd know by now considering the volume of requests on the unofficial Discord), and no one else is optimizing for reduced RAM use. On the other hand, plenty of people optimize for CPU performance, so optimizing your playstyle for performance is not unheard of. May I suggest checking that your RAM is not faulty? (unless you reload often, and then you are hit by the previously mentioned memory leak bug)

 

I can't reply on the DLC front, having never played it yet (it's still in Early Access after all).

 

As for mods, a common advice is to go on Steam Workshop and order by "Most Subscribed" and have a look at all mods in the first few pages. There are a lot of QoL mods that are well worth installing.

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5 hours ago, Fradow said:

I can't reply on the DLC front, having never played it yet (it's still in Early Access after all).

I'd be led to believe there isn't much of a difference when it comes to some long standing issues like the reload mem-leak, now that the mergedown has happened...

Since I'm using the linux version I just don't care too much about loading different save files; just relaunch the game when I already know the save file is as beefy as it comes. (As a middling solution to non-expunged memory I just toggle the swap off & on in between and all is snippy.)

I have more issue with the steam application gobbling up memory as time goes by... You'd think it was a non-optimized version of chrome :applause:

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18 hours ago, Yobbo said:

Rather than being a hard limit, i think that's probably just how much RAM the game needs. It could be the crashes aren't related to RAM usage at all, just that they happen to occur about when the game gets to that stage. Actually for the crashes you should try filing a bug report next time it happens. Crashes are always something that devs want to fix if they can, just they usually only happen in specific circumstances which can be hard to pin down without a good report. It's also unlikely to be graphics-related, as that usage shouldn't change much over the course of the game.

As far as mods go, it's a bit of a personal preference thing. I use a lot of quality-of-life mods, and have a personal rule that i don't use mods which change the core gameply (like making things easier or adding buildings), but that's just my preference. If you think the game would be more enjoyable with a certain mod then by all means try it out. In particular for me there are some aspects of the base game that just get annoying (like the deconstruct tool defaulting back to "all" every time... urgh). Many mods just tweak little things like this to let me enjoy the game more. The good thing about mods is that they don't have to apply to everyone, so they let you play the game how you, personally, like to.

As for the question about the DLC, if you like making one huge central megabase, you might be happiest sticking with the vanilla game. But then if you like making bases from scratch you might like the DLC. Spaced Out expands rocketry, makes it available way earlier, and lets you have many bases across multiple smaller asteroids. It plays quite differently, so you're not missing out by first playing the base game then starting a new DLC game later when it's properly released.

Indeed. I could time the crash to the moment 15GB RAM was used for the game, regardless of progression or cycle. I play on an 82 inch television, and have that much RAM for other purposes, as this game does not come anywhere near some usage in games that I play. A few that I play will spike to 30's of GB RAM usage, before dropping back down to teens, based on events an zooming changing. Some crash at a certain point of usage, much in the way that Oxygen Not Included was. The way I was explained by an engineer friend, was that the max heap read was surpassed. It could use more RAM, but it cannot read it, so it crashes. I am an engineer as well, but my schooling is a bit outdated for much of these newer gaming designs. My masters serves as a nice wall trophy, as so much has changed in the field. 

I picked up the DLC, because I like the idea as you explain it. Multiple bases and many duplicates sounds fun. With Kerbal Space Program, I would send spacecraft all over, and even send one poor Kerbalian on an endless venture to find the limits of the border. So far, there is no limit. Good thing they do not need food and oxygen is included, ha. I look forward to seeing the additions in the land of duplicates. I will post a screenshot of RAM use at the time of a crash, if it does the hard crash again. 

Just as further information, for those that might have ideas or run into the same issue:

Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.    Model:  Z590 AORUS MASTER
11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz
Windows 10 (64 bit)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090
Desktop Resolution: 3840 x 2160
Primary VRAM: 24575 MB
Audio device: Realtek Digital Output (Realtek
RAM:  130941 MB
Total Hard Disk Space Available:  3623817 MB
Number of SSDs: 3
SSD sizes: 2000G1000G1000G

I play some very graphically intense games, but as expected, usually the ones that take the most RAM are games like Cities Skylines, Park Zoo, Civilization, Oxygen Not Included and so forth. 

Cheers and Game On!

6 hours ago, Fradow said:

You don't need nearly as much RAM as that. Plenty of people play with a lot less RAM than that without any issue. RAM amount is not a performance limiter (though RAM timing may be, but increasing RAM amount won't help for that).

On the other hand, one thing to be wary of is a well-known long standing memory leak: when you load a save, memory is not properly released. Reload often enough and the game will crash to an Out Of Memory issue. I reported that bug again a few months ago, but feel free to report it again

There is no other RAM bug I'm aware of (and I'm pretty sure we'd know by now considering the volume of requests on the unofficial Discord), and no one else is optimizing for reduced RAM use. On the other hand, plenty of people optimize for CPU performance, so optimizing your playstyle for performance is not unheard of. May I suggest checking that your RAM is not faulty? (unless you reload often, and then you are hit by the previously mentioned memory leak bug)

 

I can't reply on the DLC front, having never played it yet (it's still in Early Access after all).

 

As for mods, a common advice is to go on Steam Workshop and order by "Most Subscribed" and have a look at all mods in the first few pages. There are a lot of QoL mods that are well worth installing.

Indeed. It is based on settings and resolution. Just because I could play it with less, does not mean I want to play it with less. I increased the RAM for other reasons. Why would I increase my RAM for a game that could not use what I had at the time. I find it weird you draw that conclusion. There are many games that limit how big of a file that they will read. For instance, Cyberpunk2077 had a problem earlier with their save file size being larger than the program would read, leading to unreadable save files. This is a software limitation, not attributed to hardware as the bottleneck. 

Ah, I see now what you are saying. Yes, my system has no faults, and has constant monitoring built in the hardware itself. The memory issue of reloading a game may very well be my issue, without knowing it. I never received a memory full error, however. The game would simply crash the moment 15GB RAM was in use, every time. I did see a very inconsistent usage of space, progress in the game, and so forth, which made it confusing. I am inclined to think it is the reloading issue, as I would have multiple Oxygen Not Included games that I would go between. This is another reason I believe I will like the expansion. Cheers and Game On!

47 minutes ago, JRup said:

I'd be led to believe there isn't much of a difference when it comes to some long standing issues like the reload mem-leak, now that the mergedown has happened...

Since I'm using the linux version I just don't care too much about loading different save files; just relaunch the game when I already know the save file is as beefy as it comes. (As a middling solution to non-expunged memory I just toggle the swap off & on in between and all is snippy.)

I have more issue with the steam application gobbling up memory as time goes by... You'd think it was a non-optimized version of chrome :applause:

I have a new RAM reclaimer software that I am now running, which I did not have before, and Steam is a big reason why. I originally was running this on my i7extreme with 8 ram chips across now at 128GB as well, for the better multitasking ability, but I know use that just for my science hobby, which can take over 60GB RAM just processing the satellite imagery I use. The RAM reclaimer works wonders so far, but I have not tried it on this game yet. It does help to keep Steam from turning into the classic film The Blob on my system, devouring all resources. 

I will have to be mindful on the load save file memory issue, as that could be part or all of the issue I was having. Cheers and Game On!

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17 minutes ago, OldManGamer said:

Indeed. It is based on settings and resolution. Just because I could play it with less, does not mean I want to play it with less. I increased the RAM for other reasons. Why would I increase my RAM for a game that could not use what I had at the time. I find it weird you draw that conclusion. There are many games that limit how big of a file that they will read. For instance, Cyberpunk2077 had a problem earlier with their save file size being larger than the program would read, leading to unreadable save files. This is a software limitation, not attributed to hardware as the bottleneck. 


I do not think of it as a bug, as much as a limitation, from the troubleshooting I did. I also know that most people play on regular screens and with regular setups. I can do 8k display, though that is not yet helpful in gaming, so I stick with lower. I am retired, and do science and gaming for enjoyment. As for the RAM being faulty, I have a constant system check that keeps all system hardware, drivers and software in check. No faults in the system nor its design. Interesting that you seem to be stuck on my amount of RAM when that was not the problem. 

No offense, I did not get much from your response. It looks as if you just wanted to say my computer build is the fault and say I have too much RAM. Maybe if you can clarify on any actual advice you have, if this is not the case, as that is what I am reading in this. Cheers and Game on.

Hum, sorry it seems my message was not clear. I'm not criticizing your computer build. For all I know, you probably have very valid reasons to have that much RAM. I just said that ONI (I should have clarified I was talking about ONI, not in general) doesn't require that much. Though I am not aware of RAM usage related to resolution. If what you said is true (not saying it's false, I just cannot verify it), I would consider the RAM size limit a bug worthy of being reported, especially considering it might just be a configuration change away from being fixed. I advise you to report it in the bug forum.

My main point was to alert you about the known memory leak on reload, which you might have not been aware of.

Anyway, cheers and Game On. Hopefully that issue you are encountering will get fixed!

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16 minutes ago, Fradow said:

Hum, sorry it seems my message was not clear. I'm not criticizing your computer build. For all I know, you probably have very valid reasons to have that much RAM. I just said that ONI (I should have clarified I was talking about ONI, not in general) doesn't require that much. Though I am not aware of RAM usage related to resolution. If what you said is true (not saying it's false, I just cannot verify it), I would consider the RAM size limit a bug worthy of being reported, especially considering it might just be a configuration change away from being fixed. I advise you to report it in the bug forum.

My main point was to alert you about the known memory leak on reload, which you might have not been aware of.

Anyway, cheers and Game On. Hopefully that issue you are encountering will get fixed!

Indeed. I reread it and understood what you are saying. I had made the mistake of thinking I would get a helpful response from the Steam forums, and was still frustrated from reading their responses, and took your advice the wrong way. Indeed, checking hardware and software is critical, and I did that extensively with the build then, and now have new hardware that self checks more efficiently, without taking up additional resources from the system. I updated my response to you in the earlier reply before this reply, to which addresses more accurately your message. Thank you, Cheers and Game On!

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I see you mentioned the expansion, here and on Steam (and yeah, responses were not super helpful, especially since no one mentioned the memory leak I talk about): be warned that if your issue still exist in the current version of vanilla ONI, you will encounter the same issue with the DLC enabled.

Indeed, since Mergedown (the event when both DLC and vanilla code got merged), both the DLC and vanilla run on the same codebase. If a generic issue exist in vanilla, it is very likely the same issue will also exist on DLC (unless it's some stuff specific to either). So if you are capped to 15GB on vanilla, it will be the same with the DLC enabled.

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If it is related to the memory leaks when reloading then i can confirm that's not any better with the DLC. Actually i've felt it to be worse, although i haven't done any actual tests. As Fradow says they both run on the same codebase now anyway, so improvements in the DLC will also be propagated to the base game.

I tried to check what happens going over 15GB of RAM usage, but the heaviest save i have only seems to use around 12, so i can't easily confirm.

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The game begins now just at 7GB RAM utilized. So far, just over 14GB RAM used, and not even the slightest bit of lag. I am just now starting to filter polluted water, so still early days. Based on this, however, I am thinking the crashing at 15GB RAM is resolved. I will soon know definitively. 

 

so far.PNG

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I was up to 20 GB RAM when Steam notified me it needed to restart for an update. I can definitively say that whatever was causing the crashes before is resolved. I have not even had any problems with the smoothness of play either. This is definitely a huge improvement from before. Back to the game I go. Cheers and Game One!

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I am quite happy. No issues with freezing nor crashing. I am also enjoying the DLC and feel it is far more difficult in some ways, while easier in others. I had grown accustomed to playing a certain pattern, and having to find a new one, as the unlock tree is different. My first save "Doomed" was fitting to its name, and they would become so saddened by a death, that they all became useless and everything spiraled downward fast. 

My new save "Plan B" is working well, and feels much like playing the game for the first time in many ways. I am sure this one will eventually fail, but so far it is going better than I expected. I completely wasted energy on gas transfer that had to be moved again, and that is going to cost me on heat management, which in turn will cost me in resources. Who knows, maybe I will recover. Still early days. 

solid.PNG

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