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Infinite dupes! (with infinite time and an infinitely good computer)


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Hello fellow forum dwellers… long time reader and very infrequent poster but I have been doing ONI research and wanted to share in case it spawns other ideas. Now that shove voles are back in the game and rockets exist I can make my dream (nightmare?) a reality.  Without further ado the infinite dupe-mobile (AKA the FPS murderer):

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Build notes:

  • Grill installed in orbit and control station removed
  • ~30 Morbs (overkill but production seems related to game speed and I wanted cycles fast for testing)
  • ~15 Domesticated Voles
  • Currently at ~700 cycles with no interaction (outside of rebooting every so often when it crashes)
  • Dupes at +24 morale (+28 - +12 decor, +8 food, +4 5x break, +3 mess hall, +1 duplicant (-4 each - Ashcan empties pipes and cooks, Harold pilots and ranches)
  • No space materials but a whole lot of dirt temp shift to keep things even
  • Admittedly made in sandbox but with an eye to how it would be made in "real" game... I think everything is doable (if annoying -> make natural tiles -> pip plant -> fill with H2).

 

My design rules:

1) Entirely self sufficient: no interaction from the player, no outside materials... nothing

  • If you have an infinite number of dupes you can’t do something to / with each of them in finite time

2) Will run for forever

  • There is game infinite (say 10,000 cycles) and truly infinite which is what I was going for. Quick shout out to Timotheeee1 for the great “game infinite” design (Water-powered-infinite-research-rocket/) which is what started me down this rabbit hole.

3) Made of the easiest to find materials so they can be mass produced

  • I want to use “normal” dupes (can do a wild oxyfern build with diver’s lungs) but there are some limits (flatulent breaks the build as-is)

  • The current design has wheezeworts in it… this is bad but does come from the printer now and then so in infinite time I could have infinite dupes… but not ideal (I want to cook eggs on my CPU now). Any ideas on a very small but not very powerful heat deletion device (need ~6kDTU/s cooling).

4) Best possible life for the Dupes (should not be a torture chamber)

  • This is the player preference area so there are many balances to find. I have a strange love for these pixel people and actually feel for them (I have never lost a dupe that a save-scum could not resurrect).

The first two rules were hard rules the second two gave me softer targets to optimize for. I thought about only taking ugly criers for the water or vomiters for the extra water / polluted water but that went against rule 3 (want to take every dupe possible) and 4 (need 100% stress so by definition torturing them). I went with the thought that I have to live in the thing that I create. I figure I created Dallas in a pandemic – Me and one friend in a tiny apartment, poor air quality but the bbq is good even if it does make you sick every so often... not quite the life I want but not too bad ;-).

 

Random stuff found in the design process that might help others -

  • Morbs produce PO2 at 20°C which is great for temperature moderation. Essentially 1 dupes breathing 78kg/cycle (30% more due to PO2) being replaced at 20°C is 0.14 kDTU/s/°C so with no automation this moderates towards 20C even if thermal inputs and outputs are not perfectly balanced.
  • Wild exuberent plants + wild pokeshell = free sand… but not really enough. I have a design for 1 dupe with latrine and sink with sieve but next to nothing else.
  • For a lower heat version wild Arbor + wild Pip can make the dirt for the outhouse… probably a design that could make that work for food too but have not looked into it and I can’t evolve pips for some reason.
  • I need to look more into Morb production - seems like space (linear?), game speed and ambient pressure are all somehow combined
  • I want to make a Morb heat exchanger system... Hot pipe with the PO2 exhausted to space... with enough morbs I could cool a base and cook my computer

Everything else here is a remix except for the one vaguely clever thing I think I invented (or at least independently discovered):

Door controlled infinite gas bottle storage method. By using an overflow sensor, cycle timer and a really long pipe you can make an empty pipe task that is never completed. A blob of petroleum with a high pressure output would just store everything and is the same or even slightly (1 tile) smaller... but just felt a bit too exploit-y in a way that an infinite mass of bottles does not… neither makes sense so YMMV.  Regardless this and a weight plate are going next to my seltzer machines in my "real" game.

ok... wall of text done, if you got to the end of this nonsense thanks for reading.  Always happy to talk about this stuff so let me know if you have questions or comments.

-Ceos

P.S. I might have gotten a tad bit obsessed... hoping this crew gets it.

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And another amazing use of limited interior space, one of my most favourite parts of Spaced Out :-)

Really great job designing it. Prepare for small correction when Testing branch goes public.

So Morbs do not produce PO with slimelung or is it negated by buddy bud? BTW I wonder what is more limiting - buddy bud or wheezewort.

And why obsessed? Isn't making sketches for buildings in games or excel sheets for RPGs etc. normal? :-D

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2 minutes ago, Jurij I. Gorkij said:

So Morbs do not produce PO with slimelung or is it negated by buddy bud? BTW I wonder what is more limiting - buddy bud or wheezewort.

Ahhh... good call I do have the buddy buds for the floral scent to try and counter act the slimelung but 5 plants from the printer is too far against my goal of mass production (even if perfect luck minimum of 5 plants and 2 dupes = 21 cycles... with realistic luck hundreds of cycles). The buddy buds are also the most temperature limiting element.  Sadly they probably have to go and the dupes will get sick now and then. Move the table over and put in a sculpture to keep the room bonus. Can also let it get hotter and drop to 1 wort... humm wonder if I could fit some entertainment in with the extra space. Back to the drawing board. 

13 minutes ago, Jurij I. Gorkij said:

Prepare for small correction when Testing branch goes public.

Uh oh... what did I miss?

Also thanks for the comments and compliments. Did I mention how much I love the ONI community? 

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32 minutes ago, Ceos said:

Uh oh... what did I miss?

There are now ports inside/ouside interior module to transfer both gas or liquids right inside interior (gas port shown in picture):

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Their most important function (for your build) is that they vent gas (liquids) out of module - you can connect outside ports with vents/pipes however if you don't, gas/liquid will be vented in to the space. No more need for piping job... Just really small correction.

41 minutes ago, Ceos said:

Also thanks for the comments and compliments. Did I mention how much I love the ONI community? 

I am amazed what people can create in this game and how nice community it has :-)

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Love it, love especially the use of critters. I also want to kill my FPS but at the same time I don't.

Didn't know morbs spawned gas at 20ºc, aswell as the door trick, that's very useful, thanks.

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How do you feed domesticated Voles? They eat a lot and if they do not eat at least once every 10 cycles, they die. 

I had a mega Vole farm pre-DLC and all regolith (and you may recall it was a lot) was going to the farm. The problem was that several Voles were standing at the regolith drop point and were eating everything and many were running hungry. I made several ports and still some were hungry. 

At the end I ended up with running a wild Vole farm. No maintenance at all, no labor.

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21 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

How do you feed domesticated Voles? They eat a lot and if they do not eat at least once every 10 cycles, they die. 

Ah ha there is a trick! If you keep the domesticated voles groomed they produce 1 egg before starving. The population is stable at that point.  If you feed and groom the population expands and you are correct they would eat way too much.  

To the second point wild voles are awesome since you don't even need to groom them and can put them in any room. The problem is one of scale, there are only so many wild voles and I was going for infinite dupes so waiting for 10x from the printer would take too long .

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On 8/24/2021 at 3:49 PM, Ceos said:

Ah ha there is a trick! If you keep the domesticated voles groomed they produce 1 egg before starving. The population is stable at that point.  If you feed and groom the population expands and you are correct they would eat way too much.  

To the second point wild voles are awesome since you don't even need to groom them and can put them in any room. The problem is one of scale, there are only so many wild voles and I was going for infinite dupes so waiting for 10x from the printer would take too long .

Do your Voles stay inside the room? Mine (wild ones) are going outside of the capsule through steel walls!!! They are running outside the rocket and when the lay an egg it disappears into the void. So the population is shrinking.

Spoiler

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1 hour ago, KonfigSys said:

Mine (wild ones) are going outside of the capsule through steel walls!!!

Ha, they shouldn't be able to burrow through refined metal (steel).  I'm not sure about diamond. Which tiles are they burrowing through specifically? Maybe it's because the rocket walls are different buildings, but I thought the check was against backing material not the building itself.

 

Things that will definitely keep them in:

  • Any refined metal tile
  • pneumatic doors
  • obsidan tiles
  • abyssalite natural tiles
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2 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

Do your Voles stay inside the room? Mine (wild ones) are going outside of the capsule through steel walls!!! 

 

The walls were safe but they went right through the capsule door for me. I had to build my stable away from the door.

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I block the rocket door (by the way made of neutronium which they should not go through also) with another steel door and it looks like they stop going out. 

They did not go through the decorative tiles because they were made of the materials listed by ghkbrew? 

In my case they go through all tiles in the rocket running around like crazy. I will change granite to obsidian and will try to lock them in a toilet room.

I remember I built a Voles farm in the vanilla game made from refined metal (iron and gold) and they keep escaping "the prizon". I tried to understand how do they do. I later realized that they lay eggs sometimes diagonally and eggs were falling out of the cage.

There are also other materials they do not go through.

I do recall I made a steam chamber where I sent regolith to and had like 8 turbines to generate electricity. I kept Voles there and they were not escaping. I do not remember what was the thermal insulated material I used to isolate the turbines from the steam (and Voles).

It was either ceramic or thermoinsulation made from isoresin (it was easy to get that in the vanilla game) which they could not dig through.

 

 

 

 

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