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World Gen changes


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In regard to the following change in the March QoL update:

  • Setting world generation options to “More” will no longer generate more of that object in every biome, it will now only generate more of that object in biomes where that object already exists.

This is a good option to have but I'm disappointed to find it seems to apply when you set world generation options to "lots" and "tons" as well. There doesn't seem to be any way to get objects to spawn all over the map or outside of their respective biomes at all anymore. I'm not sure if this is by design or not as I haven't gotten a response from Klei in the discussion topics for the update and hotfixes. I'm thinking the world gen options might be a bit bugged because, even within their respective biomes, setting the generation options for an object to "ton" doesn't seem to add THAT much of that object.

The attached screenshot shows the swamp biome from a recently generated world in which leaky shacks (merm houses) were set to "tons." I mean...sure, there are more than the default but I would expect more from the "tons" setting and they're absent from the West and most of the Northern area of the biome. By contrast, the "lots" option prior to the QoL update would have spawned these shacks all over the map with more even distribution. In another game, I tried setting MacTusk Camps to "tons" and it spawned...3 of them, all right next to each other. 

Prior to this update, a friend and I were trying to survive in "lights out" world with leaky shacks, spider dens, and other hostile creature spawners all over the world, making the map extremely dangerous to traverse. Now we can no longer recreate this scenario or anything similar where dangerous creatures are all over the world and difficult to avoid. If this isn't how the new world gen options are supposed to work, I don't mind waiting on a hotfix but, if objects remaining confined to their own biomes even with the "lots" or "tons" settings enabled is an intentional feature and not a bug, it would be nice to be given an option similar to the old world gen settings that would spawn objects all over the map. At the very least, it'd be nice to get a response from Klei on this matter so I know whether I can look forward to being able to play the challenge scenario my friend and I came up with again at some point.

 

Screenshot 2021-03-13 18.29.38.png

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First: this "Setting world generation options to “More” will no longer generate more of that object in every biome, it will now only generate more of that object in biomes where that object already exists" is something a lot of people were asking for implementation in past and-over-time. Thus I believe how it works now is very much as intended, aka "only generate more of that object in biomes where that object already exists". Second, from what I tested myself, currently are minimal (if at all) differences between "little", "less", "default", "lots" and "tons" - and I hope this aspect is a bug waiting to be fixed and not, once more, "working as intended".

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Yeah I've always wanted the more/less settings to have really noticeable differences, too.  And while it is nice to have A setting where it puts more of the thing but only where it'd normally be, sometimes you _want_  tentacles to pop out of the plains, ya know?  It'd be nice if there were two different versions of "more dangerous"--more where you'd expect it, _and_, ABSOLUTE FRIGGIN' CHAOS.

Of course in my case if I really wanna experience the old way, I could just go make a new game in regular Don't Starve with More/Lots settings, throw Wigfrid in there, and see how long she lasts (Wigfrid starts with armor--you're gonna want that) but that's not quite the same world anymore as DST, and also, not everybody has both games.  So...

...Notorious

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well staying within the biomes they originate is brilliant for 'more' and is something a lot of us wanted i am a little less pleased to hear that 'lots' no longer spawns things outside of the origin biome as that takes away a lot of the danger and thrill of maxing out a world

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Explore randomly generated worlds full of things that hates you and wants you to die.

that’s the product description line that got me to buy DS/DST- except NOW I know that the worlds are never truly “randomly” generated- there always pre-set set pieces.. and dangers/mobs/etc in their respective known biomes.

I keep begging Klei to break the Meta.. give me a TRULY Randomized world.. maybe I want to get attacked by random swamp tentacle while exploring a forest of tall trees? Maybe I want to explore my entire map only to discover Pig King didn’t spawn on it.. 

In fact: Why don’t we have that already? Pig King Spawn: Yes/No/Random!

Perhaps I want my pig kings location to truly be random as well.. maybe he took up resident on Pearls Hermit Island, maybe he’s down inside my worlds caves shard.

What this game needs more then anything is to live up to the description of “explore randomly generated worlds full of things that hate you and want you to die”

Glommers Statue Spawn: Yes/No/Random Location! 
 

Im pretty sure I’ll never get this truly randomized world Gen option... but it would add infinite replay value to the game for Me.

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On the topic of "I fancy more old mechanic of object/mob spawning everywhere on map on more/lots", KLei could choose to implement an additional option beside "little/less/default/lots/tons" - let's call it "chaos" (after "tons" as ordering goes) behaving like old system, spawning "tons" quantities of desired object/mob all over map. Would be a good & interesting compromise for fans of old WorldGen spawn mechanic imo.

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Or if possible, they could split the options. It would probably make the world gen menu extremely cluttered, but it would be cool if you had for example, biome appropriate tentacles = lots and no limit tentacles = little, or something to that effect. So the marsh becomes more dangerous, but there's also a chance for a few to spawn where you don't expect them.

 

Definitely want them to bring back "chaotic" worlds in someway though. My friends and I have played enough of this game to the point that most things in the vanilla world gen aren't that difficult, so a staple of our world has been spiders and tallbirds on more/lots so that even the early game can be threatening if you don't watch where you're going or bring a buddy. Even with tallbirds on tons now, didn't see a single tallbird nest in 12 days on a current world.

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2 hours ago, Cashews said:

Even with tallbirds on tons now, didn't see a single tallbird nest in 12 days on a current world.

It doesn't feel like setting the world gen options to anything more than the default does anything now. It made a noticeable difference before but now new worlds using more or tons options just feel like default ones.

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6 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

On the topic of "I fancy more old mechanic of object/mob spawning everywhere on map on more/lots", KLei could choose to implement an additional option beside "little/less/default/lots/tons" - let's call it "chaos" (after "tons" as ordering goes) behaving like old system, spawning "tons" quantities of desired object/mob all over map. Would be a good & interesting compromise for fans of old WorldGen spawn mechanic imo.

Console version doesn’t have lots or tons options just little/default/more but I’m not complaining because prior to the March QoL we only had little/default- More is new for us.

However I would love a “Chaos” setting so things can spawn outside of their respective biomes.

Back when I used to build maps in games like Tony Hawk Pro Skater or FarCry or more Recently even Fortnite does this: You had a predetermined amount of Memory you could use when building your worlds. 
Bigger objects eat up more Memory where less demanding ones could be substituted in their place.

To put that into Dont Starve Terms: If I toggle off all the bosses so they don’t spawn in my world at all- the Memory they were eating away at should in theory at least allow me to choose options like “lots more” for Saladmanders spawning on Lunar Island.

Klei should probably give us a “Memory Cap” system like Fortnite, THPS, or Farcry that way- We can go crazy with these toggles and NOT have our consoles explode because we put too much Memory.

But I’m no game designer and I don’t know the ins and out of how all that works.

But if you want the easiest example: just go into creator mode on Fortnite and you’ll see your “Memory Alotted” Bar as you place things.

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3 hours ago, Monkey Cups said:

It doesn't feel like setting the world gen options to anything more than the default does anything now. It made a noticeable difference before but now new worlds using more or tons options just feel like default ones.

Same for "little" or "less". For example I wanted a scarcity world, with Berry Bushes on surface to "little" (among vast majority of resources) and end result just looked like a "default" generation: take ponds - had 5-6-7 bushes. There were almost no areas on a plain where on-screen there weren't at least 3 bushes. Same with Saplings and Grass Tufts, both on "little" as well. Regenerated map and issue persisted. For now I stopped playing any new gen, they seem bugged plenty. Reading posts on KLei's main General forum paints the clear picture of last update being very bugged. Hope in next 1-2 weeks these aspects will be sorted out and have proper gens according to the settings one goes for.

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Console version doesn’t have..

Mike, I once again advise you to try and save money (if don't have already some funds) for a PC. From what I've read, all consoles seem poor PC versions, yes with family sharing and all that, but still low performance compared to what even low-to-mid end tier PCs are capable of. You'll have a whole universe of opportunities via PC as opposed to tired consoles that can't be upgraded in a major way a PC is able to be. PC ftw! :encouragement:

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1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

To put that into Dont Starve Terms: If I toggle off all the bosses so they don’t spawn in my world at all- the Memory they were eating away at should in theory at least allow me to choose options like “lots more” for Saladmanders spawning on Lunar Island.

 

 

You ever heard of Lazy Loading?
I'm pretty sure you may not be tech savvy, or savvy in general, but basically games don't load everything at once; they load specific areas.
I'll explain this:

Spoiler

Okay so in Minecraft, the game saves the world in Chunks (16x16 block structures with entities) which are loaded when a player comes in a set distance to the chunk (usually like 10+ chunks far from the loading chunk) and the game slowly unloads the chunks when a player walks away.

This is similar to DST (with different aspects and loading) but the idea stays the same, the player loads everything in a circle-like manner, the circle is usually bigger than the screen (mods like Aerial mod allow you to pan out the screen farther than the set limit, allowing you to see the loading) 

Almost any normal game does this.

Setting bosses to none wouldn't even do anything, as only 2 bosses could be theoretically loaded near the Lunar Island without telelocation.

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That might also be partly how the "things can't catch on fire if you're a certain distance away" mechanic happens.  I've also seen it with, say, a boss killing mobs.  One time, I accidentally spawned the Deerclops near my beefalo, stayed long enough to see the carnage happen, and had no more beefalo.  Another time exactly the same thing happened but I ran off as soon as the killing started, and I DID still have beefalo afterwards.

I don't know if "lazy loading" is related to that, but...

Anyway yes, Mike, (creepy harp music) joooooiiiinnn uuuuusssss... I don't even know exactly how old my computer is, it's still running Windows 7, and I can run huge worlds with like 18 mods on (some of them adding new items so there's _more_ stuff to load) for over 500 days and all the clutter THAT builds up in a world, and they're still just fine.  If my cheapo computer can do that, I'm guessing another one could too.

Join the Steam Side, Mike!  We have cookies cherry trees and Uncompromising Mode:D

(although at the same time, I do hope that the console versions CAN one day be equal to the PC ones.)

...Notorious

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Anyway, back to the actual "different amounts of things" topic, I decided to do a little experiment and then demonstrate the results.  How, you may ask?  Why, the same way I do everything--with screenshots!

dstnewtons.thumb.png.5d2904b9b1a713a07ff0a894f0a31b2f.png

Here we see a screenshot from a post-QoL update DST world.  What setting would you guess I'd put everything on?  Would you say "More"?  No, this only slightly more than usual is actually the "Tons" setting!  And everything is where it normally would be, even with supposedly "tons" of them in the world at once.  Meanwhile...

regulardsmore.thumb.png.4ac28ab7a4f33afa8bb2fe61a1246d58.png

...THIS, as you might've been able to tell from the still-cardboard oceans (and lack of postern) is a screenshot from regular Don't Starve with the settings on just "More" (which was also the DST version of the setting until recently).  And whlie it doesn't look _that_ chaotic here, LOOK how many things are outside of their normal biomes!  I count:  A tallbird, a vulture, a spiky bush, a pig house and a Merm, just in my starting screen alone.  (Also you can't see it now, but a tumbleweed POOFed me in the face during Maxwell's intro speech.  XD)

What I'm saying is, some of us are asking for the top picture to represent just "More", and the bottom picture to be "Tons" (only with more stuff than seen here).  It'd be nice to have a safer mess AND a _not_-so-safe mess.  (Although there should probably be some text somewhere to TELL people that putting things on "Tons" might get them tentacleslapped while checking their rabbit traps.)  But in general, it'd be nice if there was still A setting that made things appear wherever.

(by the way, I never use these zoom-out mods for actual gameplay; just better screenshots.  I tried moving around while it was in that mode once and it was disorienting.  : P)

...Notorious

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