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Collecting Fluid Displacement info


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anyone know where I can find info on how the fluid (gas and liquid) displacement works in this game? I'm making a little machine that drips salt water onto metal blocks, and lets the brine pour down to a space below it, and I'd like to find out exactly how much brine I have to keep inside to stop salt water from displacing it. I will accept alternate designs as well but I'd like to get the displacement info for my own curiosity.

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Is the idea to cool the salt water enough to turn it into brine and collect the salt? I'm curious why you're doing it this way rather than using a desalinator or by boiling? Do you actually have a use for the brine?

Regardless, I don't know of a good resource that describes the details of fluid and gas flow simulation.

To answer your question specifically about displacement. I believe the answer is any amount of brine should be sufficient. I don't think a lighter fluid (salt water) will ever swap places with a tile of denser fluid (brine) below it, regardless of the mass in either tile. If however you have two fluids side by side, the tile with more mass will attempt to push the lower mass fluid, but only if it can be merged with a tile of the same fluid on the opposite side.

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16 minutes ago, ghkbrew said:

Is the idea to cool the salt water enough to turn it into brine and collect the salt? I'm curious why you're doing it this way rather than using a desalinator or by boiling? Do you actually have a use for the brine?

Regardless, I don't know of a good resource that describes the details of fluid and gas flow simulation.

To answer your question specifically about displacement. I believe the answer is any amount of brine should be sufficient. I don't think a lighter fluid (salt water) will ever swap places with a tile of denser fluid (brine) below it, regardless of the mass in either tile. If however you have two fluids side by side, the tile with more mass will attempt to push the lower mass fluid, but only if it can be merged with a tile of the same fluid on the opposite side.

When you boil salt water it gives a higher ratio of steam to salt. if you freeze salt salt water it takes some of the water out and drops ice, that way when you boil the brine you get less steam to salt. boiling brine gives water faster in the long run because less steam is easier to deal with, at least that's my though process. I'm playing on an oceana world right now so I figured I'd try to make an advanced machine, instead of just SPOMs and petroleum boilers

you can seen in my example screenshot that some salt water pushed the brine below it out of the way, pushing the brine either left or right. Ideally I'd have the salt water drip on to the metal tiles and flash freeze into brine & ice instead of dripping down, but I don't want to keep the area too cold for efficiency purposes

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1 hour ago, Flamingkitty said:

for efficiency purposes

If you're worrying about heat efficiency of phase changes, the solution is to use a counter flow heat exchanger.  My suggestion would be to boil the salt water with an aquatuner, but counter flow the hot output steam/water against the incoming salt water.  It should be both simpler and more energy efficient than freezing the saltwater to ice+brine then boiling the brine.

As an additional benefit you get more salt out of the interaction too.  Freezing salt water results in 23% brine by mass.  Boiling brine then results in 24% salt by mass for a net of 5.52% salt from the salt water.  Boiling salt water directly results in 25% salt by mass.

1 hour ago, Flamingkitty said:

you can seen in my example screenshot that some salt water pushed the brine below it out of the way

Can you post an example save file?  I can't seem to get the salt water to displace the brine with this configuration.

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W/o a proper double heat exchanger this is going to be super expensive energy wise. You're cooling 30C water to subzero temp then heating up brine to steam? It's process similar to a sourgas boiler. You have to counterflow the salt water with brine before the freezing chamber, and the ice too (since it's most of the mass), then you send warm brine to a steam room, and counterflow it with 95C clean water. It seems to me overly complicated.

Expecially for something that's going to run out eventually.

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4 hours ago, TheMule said:

W/o a proper double heat exchanger this is going to be super expensive energy wise. You're cooling 30C water to subzero temp then heating up brine to steam? It's process similar to a sourgas boiler. You have to counterflow the salt water with brine before the freezing chamber, and the ice too (since it's most of the mass), then you send warm brine to a steam room, and counterflow it with 95C clean water. It seems to me overly complicated.

Expecially for something that's going to run out eventually.

I'll be using a slow drip so the energy cost wont be as intense and then I'll drip the brine into a magma powered boiler. Not like I have anything else to put the energy into anyways, once I set up my natural gas generators I'll have even more coal to shovel into generators.

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11 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

If you're worrying about heat efficiency of phase changes, the solution is to use a counter flow heat exchanger.  My suggestion would be to boil the salt water with an aquatuner, but counter flow the hot output steam/water against the incoming salt water.  It should be both simpler and more energy efficient than freezing the saltwater to ice+brine then boiling the brine.

As an additional benefit you get more salt out of the interaction too.  Freezing salt water results in 23% brine by mass.  Boiling brine then results in 24% salt by mass for a net of 5.52% salt from the salt water.  Boiling salt water directly results in 25% salt by mass.

Can you post an example save file?  I can't seem to get the salt water to displace the brine with this configuration.

my biggest "concern" is the rate that steam will be produced. I'm mostly just experimenting with this design, I probably will go with a redesign of Brothgar's petroleum boiler but I was going to add a counterloop in my design too.

There was only <25g/tile of brine at the bottom and about 500g of saltwater on top, leaving >50g/tile of brine (and then actually cooling the metal blocks to -10c so that the salt water actually freezes) seems to have stopped all fluid displacement. I'm still fine-tuning it and I wanted to keep the metal blocks at a steady -10 for efficiency, but I'll have to try lower temperatures to make sure the salt water flash freezes on the blocks and doesn't drop any ice down into the brine pit (for easier ice collection)

The ice dropping another reason why I'm trying this, instead of bringing all that salt water to a boil and having it all turn into steam, I take some of the water out as ice which can be melted into water much easier.

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1 hour ago, Flamingkitty said:

my biggest "concern" is the rate that steam will be produced.

 

2 hours ago, Flamingkitty said:

I'll drip the brine into a magma powered boiler.

A magma boiler will easily handle 10kg/s of salt water (if you have enough magma).  If you want to make water as fast a possible just dumping salt water straight into the steam chamber of a volcano/geothermal powered turbine setup and siphoning off exhaust water is a nice brute force option. Though, you do need 1 steam turbine for every 2kg/s of desired output.  Bonus points if you counterflow the salt water and turbine exhaust water for extra thermal efficiency and cooler water.

 

1 hour ago, Flamingkitty said:

doesn't drop any ice down into the brine pit (for easier ice collection)

At a guess, this is probably how you were displacing the brine.  If a small chunk of ice falls into the center pit then melts, it will push the brine out of the way to form a water tile.  That tile of water will, then, immediately swap places with the salt water above it.

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On 9/24/2020 at 2:11 PM, ghkbrew said:

 

A magma boiler will easily handle 10kg/s of salt water (if you have enough magma).  If you want to make water as fast a possible just dumping salt water straight into the steam chamber of a volcano/geothermal powered turbine setup and siphoning off exhaust water is a nice brute force option. Though, you do need 1 steam turbine for every 2kg/s of desired output.  Bonus points if you counterflow the salt water and turbine exhaust water for extra thermal efficiency and cooler water.

 

At a guess, this is probably how you were displacing the brine.  If a small chunk of ice falls into the center pit then melts, it will push the brine out of the way to form a water tile.  That tile of water will, then, immediately swap places with the salt water above it.

This is less for practical means and more for experimental means. In my last playthrough the oil biome got heated to >150 degrees c, so I pooled all the saltwater in the map into one big ocean, cut through the abysalite layer, and put a few granite tiles in to boil the pool slowly (steam would re-condense in the pool and clean water would float to the top to be skimmed off). this is what got me to try this out, In my current playthrough I have desalinators proving my base plenty of water on top of experimentation.

The brine was being displaced because it was <25g/tile and salt water of significant volume dripped down into it. there was no time for any ice to melt, and that would have left water instead of salt water

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On 9/24/2020 at 3:13 PM, TheMule said:

W/o a proper double heat exchanger this is going to be super expensive energy wise. You're cooling 30C water to subzero temp then heating up brine to steam? It's process similar to a sourgas boiler. You have to counterflow the salt water with brine before the freezing chamber, and the ice too (since it's most of the mass), then you send warm brine to a steam room, and counterflow it with 95C clean water. It seems to me overly complicated.

Expecially for something that's going to run out eventually .

Thank you so much for the valuable information buddy.

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