Gavin786 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Why o why does the whole map need to change for the SAME SEED on a new update??? May I suggest that in the massively long seed-number S-FRX 1932145214124123412-0, that part of that is the version information which links to the procedural code tables to generate the map. Such that the SAME SEED always generates the SAME MAP, regardless of version. Old seed types can be no-longer auto-generated with new game updates, for new geyser types or whatever, but there should certainly be compatibility with old seed numbers. You might get an old map if you use an old seed, without all the latest whatever, but a lot of ppl can live with that. And trying old maps/old versions is pretty cool also. I just dont get this implementation decision. TNI website needs to be completely redone every change. Old seeds no longer work. IF you have the misfortune to be halfway through your map when the game updates, suddenly all the geysers are different!! Seriously guys, you didnt think this would irk people who are several(in 100s even) cycles into their base when suddenly the geyser becomes something it should not??? And all the planning around that geyser being there wasted??? Yes, this does piss people off, for anyone who is asking. This is causing a lot of trouble and work for the community and is completely un-necessary. And annoying a lot of people, not just me. Come on, guys, you have enough numbers, find a way for backward compatibility. Maybe that -0 at the end becomes the old version number if u want to use an old version for the seed for example. Easy to do everyone is happy. -0 or <current version number> is the current version, else any other number means that version. Could program it myself in less than an afternoon, and look at how much trouble this is causing community, with all our tools and maps suddenly not working on every update. People are asking to download old versions from steam. Sort it out, guys. Gavin786 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairath Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Every update? Calm down, man. TNI was wiped only twice in a year and a half, one of them being when the game was launched out of early access and all the new asteroid types and biomes were added and the other time now. This time Klei needed to upgrade Unity version and with that, the .NET Framework version, to ensure the game will still work fine on all platforms. The new framework version has a different implementation of Random(). It's not like they purposely decided 'lol let's mess them up'. They've really been careful about not messing up world gen even when slight changes were added in the past, but sometimes you just can't avoid it. And I'm pretty sure you couldn't program it yourself in less than an afternoon. Is it annoying? Yes. Does it happen often? No. No need to be so angry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin786 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Cairath said: Every update? Calm down, man. TNI was wiped only twice in a year and a half, one of them being when the game was launched out of early access and all the new asteroid types and biomes were added and the other time now. This time Klei needed to upgrade Unity version and with that, the .NET Framework version, to ensure the game will still work fine on all platforms. The new framework version has a different implementation of Random(). It's not like they purposely decided 'lol let's mess them up'. They've really been careful about not messing up world gen even when slight changes were added in the past, but sometimes you just can't avoid it. And I'm pretty sure you couldn't program it yourself in less than an afternoon. Is it annoying? Yes. Does it happen often? No. No need to be so angry about it. Well it has put me to a lot of trouble and other people too. Angry is the wrong word though, I think it is a dumb choice to let this happen and it IS a choice. If software is mission-critical on RNG then that has to be under control and own implementation of that, esp if you gonna do any procedural generation. Aught to have been identified as an issue and a decision made before project started. IF NOT and caught with pants down halfway and RNG algorithm in library changed, then it is easy enough to go look up the implementation of System.Random on previous version of Mono and make own version of Random(KleiRandom say in this case) so that it is used consistently, search wherever random numbers are requested(hopefully in just 1 nice place where world is created) and replace with KleiRandom, test to make sure its working. Jobs a good one, time for tea then a beer. Dont think this takes an afternoon mate. IF that is the only factor and I suspect its not, I suspect spawn % are changed for various things and tracking between versions are not being kept in the seed#. So its likely a bit more complex than just making sure that RNG is consistent, if they are changing spawn% then version info needs be tracked, as the same seed number would then generate a different set of geysers(say). I am a professional at this, I am good at it, its prob about the only thing in life I am good at. And were I the creator of this program, I assure you it would take me no more than afternoon to fix this. https://github.com/mono/mono/blob/mono-2-4/mcs/class/corlib/System/Random.cs - old random number generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzeTheGreat Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Can you point out a single game that has backwards compatible map generation? Because I've never seen it, and I've never seen anyone complain about the lack of it as much as you have. If it'll take you an afternoon to code, then why don't you write a mod for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairath Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I'm also a professional, but not sure how does that matter here... Sometimes think whether you should, not whether you could. This case is one of them. If you're so mad about a few geysers changing just use the save editor to change them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin786 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, AzeTheGreat said: Can you point out a single game that has backwards compatible map generation? Because I've never seen it, and I've never seen anyone complain about the lack of it as much as you have. If it'll take you an afternoon to code, then why don't you write a mod for it? This is a really lovely forum with nice energy. I am not going to go down this route with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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