Biosphere 2 type of game

[tank_panzer]

This suggestion requires the gameplay to change so much that the game is of a different type. That's why the suggestion is for a second game or a DLC or an Expansion Pack.. whatever you might want to call it.

I love the game, and I love to play it at the edge, but I don't like to be pushed by the limited resources. Sprawling and moving fast makes more sense than building a small robust base. And that is fine if that is the kind of game you want to play.

But I want to play a game where resources are renewable. I want to be able to be able do conserve water and oxygen, so that my playtyme is not constrained in length. I still want to play an insanely difficult game, is just that the limiting factors would be of some other nature, like food and energy. Not as limited supply but as limited production time.

Basically I want to play a game like I am trapped in the Biosphere 2. I understand that this would be a vastly different game, and maybe just a fraction of people loving the game in this current form would like to play it, that's why my request is for a different game with same content but balanced differently.

 

Anyone else wants to play Biosphere 2?

 

 

[meepmoop]

I did not play biosphere. ONI is a different game though. The studio members had an idea and they tried to execute it.

I think at its current state oni is quite enjoyable. There is a lot of space for expention, and all of us have ideas that could make oni more of what we want from the game.

We can suggest and provide feedback but at the end of the day, its the heads of Klei to decide what they want to do with oni.

-

And about the point of 'limited resources' - its possible to make a self sustaining colony. volcanoes, solar, netural gas and hydrogen vents provide renewable sources of energy, Every map has several steam vents and water gysters so water is renewable as well. And when you got water and power you can make anything else in between.

Maybe its not trivial to get to the point where your colony is self sustainable, but it is possible and once you get it once you already 'figured the game' so it stops being a problem recreating that..

[lunazone]

Resources in ONI are very renewable. You're guaranteed to get at least two infinite sources of water. Plus a bunch of miscellaneous material infinite sources. Plus you can ship new material via rockets.

[tank_panzer]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:07 PM, meepmoop said:

I did not play biosphere. ONI is a different game though. The studio members had an idea and they tried to execute it.

Biosphere 2 is not a game. Sorry for the confusion. It's an experiment: https://biosphere2.org/ 

 

Oh I love ONI. And ONI is almost a "Biosphere type of game".

 

I just wish it didn't have unlimited resoureces. I wish it abyde by the Law of Conservation of Energy and Conservation of Mass. Of course if you abide by the laws of Physics sooner or later you will have a dead enviroment, that's why it should have one source of infinite energy. Just like the Sun is, for all intents and purposes, an infinite source of energy for Earth.

Imagine you have a table of materials at the begining of the game and you can transform one into another all you want, but at the end of the game you have same equivalent number of materials.

I'm not an active gmer anymore, but I've been looking for such a game for the past 20 years, ONI is so close of being what I am looking for that it it hurts.

 

 

[metallichydra]

13 hours ago, tank_panzer said:

Imagine you have a table of materials at the begining of the game and you can transform one into another all you want, but at the end of the game you have same equivalent number of materials.

since ONI is colony in space, you could get more materials by harvesting asteroids.

[tank_panzer]

2 hours ago, metallichydra said:

since ONI is colony in space, you could get more materials by harvesting asteroids.

That's fair. You can do that on Earth too, we went to the Moon and brought back rocks. What you cannot do on Earth is to destroy water, you can destroy water in ONI you can.

[Rainbowdesign]

If you can explain this aspects a little more:

There are few infinite resources. If you want i can do this for you RIGHT NOW:

Fill the whole map excluding the start biome with a single element of your choice. How about water? (it may load a bit longer at the start)

Actually i decided to include that into the next mod anyways it trivial.

I dont think the wrong physics can be fixed. Is there something special you need?

[tank_panzer]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:14 AM, Rainbowdesign said:

If you can explain this aspects a little more:

There are few infinite resources. If you want i can do this for you RIGHT NOW:

Edit: sorry I didn't reply earlier, I was busy playing the game.

The infinite resources is what I don't want. 

But I can't play without tapping into the infinite resources because the game is built like this. Instead of having access to infinite water I would rather be able to manage water

water -> poluted water -> drinkable water

water -> water vapor -> water.

I don't like that water is destroyed.

The same with all the other resources. It bothers me that you can make coal aout of nothing, basically creating energy.

Of course just like in real world you need infinite source of energy. You can start with coal, but once you are out of coal you need to go solar (or heated water from Sun, or some other indirect Soalar energy), or nuclear. Just like on Earth.

This is a type of game that I imagined 20 years ago when I was learning 7th grade Physics and playing Zeus and Tropico. The game was about managing resources in a remote place (an island, South Pole, a space station, a resourceless planet). Somewhere you can't just ask for more when you are out of something. You start with a few seeds and few species of animals. You cut off all your trees, you are out of lumber, just like on Easter Island. You kill all your animals of a species you are out of that speces, just like Britain is out of wolfs. 

Before 2019, I havent really played a game since probably 2002, probably Stronghold. Then I got Factorio and now ONI. According to Steam ,

Playtime past 2 weeks:

198.2h

So I do like ONI. A lot. It's very close to what I wanted. It's so close that it hurts to see it misses the mark. It can probably be done but just rebalancing the resources and the maps but the gameplay would change so much that it won't be the same game anymore.

I know that my "request" is not going to happen, so this is more of a rant than anything else.

[tank_panzer]

Let me give you an example of how resources might work.

You have: Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen

You grow a tree: H2O + CO2 + N + Energy -> Lumber + O2

You need energy to move a steam engine: Burn Lumber -> Energy (same energy that went in) + CO2 + N (Ash)

 

Let's say you start with 50 of each element, and Lumber is equal parts of the elements listed above.

Then you can have:

0*O

10*H

35*C

50*N

20*H2O  (40*H + 20*O)

15*CO2 (15*C + 30*O)

 

Further you can add some Lumber:

10*H2O  (20*H + 10*O) + 10*CO2 (10*C + 20*O) + 10*N -> 10*Lumber (20*H + 10*C + 10*N) + 30*O2

And you end up having:

10*Lumber (20*H + 10*C + 10*N) or (10*CH2 + 10*N) [I wish chemistry was this simple]

30*O2

10*H

35*C

40*N

10*H2O  (20*H + 10*O)

5*CO2 (5*C + 10*O)

This is kind of what Biosphere 2 (the experiment) wanted to acomplish. 

Of course it doesn't have to be like this. It doesn't have to be at chemical element level, but at some level, I want to have a fixed amount of resources and the game should be about managing resources. ONI is already about managing resources, except it has Geysers and Vents to make up for the resources you destroy.

[Lurve]

You'd need a total overhaul mod. The game is balanced around an open loop system with matter entering and leaving all the time, from dupes deleting oxygen when they breathe but creating water when they pee (but only in a toilet), to wild plants creating mass but farmed plants deleting it. You'd have to redo pretty much every entity to close all the loops, that's a big job.

If you'd be satisfied with something only kind of like that, try out Pholith's Emptera map. It gives you the starting biome surrounded by space. The typical fast sprawl will kill you quickly, you need slow growth that exploits renewables to find enough geysers for long-term sustainability.