heat conductor whats the best heat conductor early game?

[geniusthemaster]

this obsidian does nothing \_0.0_/i thought obsidian was close to glass as you can get.. glass = daimond ?

[Nebbie]

For tempshift, aluminum (refined, not the ore), as it has over 100x the thermal conductivity of obsidian. "Thermally reactive" I would assume tricked you like it has many players before, it just means it takes less heat energy to cause change in temperature, not that it transfers that heat energy faster. The devs really need to reword that and its opposite "slow heating".
However, tempshift plates help with heat exchange between all adjacent tiles in the manner of if they were a 3x3 building. That's all they're for, making a long string of them simply will not transfer heat very well because of the distances involved. If you want to move heat long distances, you need to physically move it, and high SHC ("slow heating") becomes more important than thermal conductivity (the issue is more the "capacity of the bus" so to speak than how fast passengers get on and off as distance becomes large). SHC is generally the same across phases in ONI, so you just want more mass to increase actual heat capacity, and so that means solids on rails over liquids over gases; rails also boost thermal transfer like crazy.

Most things with high SHC also have low freezing points, which is a problem, as there's no way to stop things on conveyors from melting when they get too hot. Dirt however is stable up until pretty high temperatures, and its SHC at regular temps is pretty much only beat by plastic (which is so insulatory and hard to get in large quantities I wouldn't bother).
So, you want dirt on a conveyor rail loop, I think.

[DarkMoge]

The best early game material for temp shift plates is probably granite, but you are having a wrong idea about temp shift plates... They are not really good at trying to transfer heat between biomes... What they are good at is stabilizing temperature inside a room. What you can do is run a bit of radiant pipe inside a biome (do not need to run it through whole biome) than surround the radiant pipe with multiple layers of temp shift plates in checkerboard pattern than run the rest of the pipe as insulated pipe... than run radiant pipe again in the place you want to get that heat, repeating the checkerboard around the pipe... and run some sort of liquid through the pipe... running hydrogen in gas pipes can work too, but much slower.

[Nebbie]

15 minutes ago, DarkMoge said:

The best early game material for temp shift plates is probably granite, but you are having a wrong idea about temp shift plates... They are not really good at trying to transfer heat between biomes... What they are good at is stabilizing temperature inside a room. What you can do is run a bit of radiant pipe inside a biome (do not need to run it through whole biome) than surround the radiant pipe with multiple layers of temp shift plates in checkerboard pattern than run the rest of the pipe as insulated pipe... than run radiant pipe again in the place you want to get that heat, repeating the checkerboard around the pipe... and run some sort of liquid through the pipe... running hydrogen in gas pipes can work too, but much slower.

Add conveyor rails with dirt and it'll only add to this...but more to the point, dirt on conveyor rails should utterly cream this to begin with. Rails have a massive multiplier for heat transfer and only cost ores while radiant pipes need refined metals. A bunch of aluminum radiant pipes with polluted water in aluminum tiles may be crazy for heat transfer, but it's also really expensive compared to dirt running on aluminum ore rails (tiles optional). Technically it's the same base resources if you use the rock crusher to get aluminum and you have unlimited dirt and polluted water, but that's a lot of dupe labor.

Someone should try aluminum ore rails with dirt atop aluminum radiant pipes with polluted water atop radiant aluminum ore pipes with hydrogen running through aluminum tiles with aluminum tempshift plates above and below and see just how ridiculous it is. Probably literally instant temp change within the working temperature range (within a game tick).

[DarkMoge]

11 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

Add conveyor rails with dirt and it'll only add to this...but more to the point, dirt on conveyor rails should utterly cream this to begin with. Rails have a massive multiplier for heat transfer and only cost ores while radiant pipes need refined metals. A bunch of aluminum radiant pipes with polluted water in aluminum tiles may be crazy for heat transfer, but it's also really expensive compared to dirt running on aluminum ore rails (tiles optional). Technically it's the same base resources if you use the rock crusher to get aluminum and you have unlimited dirt and polluted water, but that's a lot of dupe labor.

Someone should try aluminum ore rails with dirt atop aluminum radiant pipes with polluted water atop radiant aluminum ore pipes with hydrogen running through aluminum tiles with aluminum tempshift plates above and below and see just how ridiculous it is. Probably literally instant temp change within the working temperature range (within a game tick).

The problem with that statement is that we are talking about early game and than you suggest rails... It requires a duplicant with 5 specific skill points, which you might not prioritize early game to construct.

[Nebbie]

Just now, DarkMoge said:

The problem with that statement is that we are talking about early game and than you suggest rails... It requires a duplicant with 5 specific skill points, which you might not prioritize early game to construct.

You can just wait cycles and cycles to get skills. Refined metals in large quantities are a problem without some pretty good setups.

Ultimately if you want to go super early-game, just pipes of polluted water in tiles will probably suffice. No metal needed there at all and no skills.

[geniusthemaster]

woah ok catching up on posts here the thread failed to notify me because i have 2 thread tabs open in firefox. very solid info so far.

really it was a great coverage of all the proper early game heat transfer tips, so solids > liquids > gasses.

are we talking about moving dirt in an infinite loop on conveyors?

also i just did some real world research on thermo electric plates, apparently 1 graphite rod (pencil) and alluminum plate make a great { Peltier effect } and can create triple what the standard issue peltier devices use, using basic highly available materials.( and we havea big need for carbon to be used . graphite. yay graphite.) @Nebbie@DarkMoge

[Nebbie]

17 minutes ago, geniusthemaster said:

woah ok catching up on posts here the thread failed to notify me because i have 2 thread tabs open in firefox. very solid info so far.

really it was a great coverage of all the proper early game heat transfer tips, so solids > liquids > gasses.

are we talking about moving dirt in an infinite loop on conveyors?

also i just did some real world research on thermo electric plates, apparently 1 graphite rod (pencil) and alluminum plate make a great { Peltier effect } and can create triple what the standard issue peltier devices use, using basic highly available materials.( and we havea big need for carbon to be used . graphite. yay graphite.) @Nebbie@DarkMoge

Heat capacity is what's important, and there's more per mass. Gas pipes are limited to 1kg packets, liquid pipes to 10kg, and rails to 20kg. Rails further have some crazy modifier added (and their contents directly transfer heat to the tile below even in vacuum, while pipes only transfer with the tile they're on), and radiant pipes have their own modifiers (not enough to beat rails). Dirt, polluted water, and hydrogen are the big three on SHC at base-like temperatures.
Running these through tiles transfers heat even better, as building to tile and tile to tile greatly beat building to gas and gas to gas. Tiles alone, without pipes or anything, will also beat tempshift plates, but it's much slower to not also physically move the heat.
You can combine all three phases of transported material. For the temp ranges involved, this would be massive overkill. You really just need something to convey the heat.

[bobucles]

The biggest early game heat conductor is a dupe picking up 1700kg of hot/cold stuff and hauling it.

IIRC everything only conducts heat with the tiles it occupies. It only conducts heat with the material which occupies the map tile (solid/liquid/gas). That medium then conducts heat with all the overlay layers which occupy the tile. Materials inside a pipe only interact with the pipe, and that pipe interacts with the map tile. I think debris interacts with the medium in its own tile only? I forgot.

Most bridges count as 3x1 objects for heat transfer. Tempshift plates are 3x3. I dunno exactly how structures work, some say it only manipulates the tile it sits on and some say it's the entire thing.

You can take advantage of tempshift plates to quickly dump a huge amount of cold into solid tiles. Build ice tempshifts directly on the tiles. It will melt almost instantly and dunk all the cold potential into the tiles. Cold tiles will chill the nearby air, making a chilly base.