A Trick To Re-start Gas-conflict Steam Turbine

[goatt]

I'm really bad at gas conflict steam turbine. And this time I tried it in survival, I had to rebuild it 3 times, which was pain in the as*. The problem was after a while, for example overnight, the top gas and steam would stabilize and no longer intruding each other. All I got is a peaceful top layer of gas, and silently sleeping steam, and steam turbine complaining about underpressure.

So I thought maybe if I build a door between the two gases, and when I open the door, gas from above and below the door should come inside the door to create a gas instability. And it worked.

What you should look for in gif is the white ripples, that's where the gas and steam battle each other and turbine will detect low pressure cuz gas is batting there. When the door opens and closes, you can see a new ripple is created, which will later get either released or possibly destroyed by the door itself. Good luck with that. I'm using a seizure door, so soon or later, there surely is going to be a ripple. You can also use your dupe to do it manually, you might be able to keep the instability forever.

As long as there is one ripple, turbine will have sufficient pressure difference. If there is no ripple, turbine stop. And if it has come to stop, this method is able to resurrect the turbine.

Similarly, I believe that hydrofan can create instability too, since it sucks gases around it and then releases them which consequently re-distributes them. But hydrofan in such a sauna room, idk.

Also similarly, you can use gas pump to store gas in this room in a gas reservoir, then you deconstruct the reservoir, and boom, gas instability.

You know what I mean, you can be creative.

I had this tough problem for quite a while, if someone has the same problem, hope this helps.

[fishoutofwater]

have you seen jukedbylife youtube channel?

I follow his gas conflict steam turbine, it works really well.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, fishoutofwater said:

have you seen jukedbylife youtube channel?

No, But i'll look it up, thx

@fishoutofwater I checked out his video, he has some good way of determining water gas ratio

[tzionut]

I use 2  high pressure vent and gas shutoff for putting the right amount of gases in my last build. I used the magma tile whit chlorine clamp for testing how fast will cool the magma and the setup stop working (spoiler..almost 200 cycle) from 1500 degrees to 230, or if you have visco gel you can use a canister emptier

[mathmanican]

2 hours ago, goatt said:

All I got is a peaceful top layer of gas, and silently sleeping steam, and steam turbine complaining about underpressure.

This just means you didn't include enough gas.  Another fix, that prevents you from every having to worry about opening/closing a door is to build a gas dispenser in the room, and then bring in some more gas (oxygen, hydrogen, whatever you decided to use). If at any point the gas conflict stops, then you didn't add enough gas. Just bring in more. If it starts again, and then stops 5 cycles later, you didn't bring enough.  Bring in more. It's as simple as that.

Edit: If you want to know exactly how much to bring in, then all you have to do is compare the resting kg of gas, with the resting kg of steam.  Then figure out how many kg of gas you need to bring in to make sure the average resting kg of gas will be greater than the average resting kg of steam. 

Example:  If everything has stopped and the current contents are 30kg steam and 25 kg oxygen, then you will need to bring in a tad more than 5 kg of oxygen per tile of oxygen. If you have 6 tiles above your turbine with oxygen, then you'll need to bring in >30 kg (5 kg need on 6 ports) of oxygen.  Bring in 4 of the 10kg canisters of oxygen.  Your turbine will never stop again. 

[mathmanican]

By the way, you can use this exact same conflict scenario, with a gas dispenser, to over pressurize a natural vent to whatever pressure you want.  Here's a picture. 

The pressure sensors above are set to light up if the pressure drops below 4kg.  If at any point all of the sensors fail to light up, for 5 seconds (not gate, followed by filter gate attached to a door), then the gas conflict has most likely stopped. A door opens, and the gas canister will request more carbon dioxide to be added, automating the process of keeping the gas conflict going.  In this way, I can trick my natural gas vent (or whatever vent I want) to keep on erupting. It's the same principle as any gas conflict.  This can also be used for infinite gas storage, if they ever fix the liquid over vent bug/exploit.  

[Marsfc]

46 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

By the way, you can use this exact same conflict scenario, with a gas dispenser, to over pressurize a natural vent to whatever pressure you want.  Here's a picture. 

The pressure sensors above are set to light up if the pressure drops below 4kg.  If at any point all of the sensors fail to light up, for 5 seconds (not gate, followed by filter gate attached to a door), then the gas conflict has most likely stopped. A door opens, and the gas canister will request more carbon dioxide to be added, automating the process of keeping the gas conflict going.  In this way, I can trick my natural gas vent (or whatever vent I want) to keep on erupting. It's the same principle as any gas conflict.  This can also be used for infinite gas storage, if they ever fix the liquid over vent bug/exploit.  

Well done!

[goatt]

5 hours ago, mathmanican said:

is to build a gas dispenser in the room

This was the solution I was looking for when I needed more o2 in that room. I didn’t know there is a ratio to follow and I had 21kg O2 and 57kg steam per tile. Too much of everything lmao. Btw, is the ratio a fixed one.

[mathmanican]

7 minutes ago, goatt said:

Btw, is the ratio a fixed one.

Just make sure that 21kg O2 per tile gets above the 57kg steam, and you're good to go.  It's gonna take a lot of trips.  Build several dispensers if you have room. If you've got 6 free tiles up top, then you've got to bring in about 220 kg of O2 (22 trips). The calculation is 57-21 = 36, multiplied by 6 to get 216 kg, and then round up to the nearest 10.  Personally, I'd bring in 300 - 400 kg, so that more than one till will always be fighting (because if the only tile fighting for control is the one NOT above the turbine, then everything stops as well. 

[goatt]

So gas to steam is about 1:1? @mathmanican

[mathmanican]

2 minutes ago, goatt said:

So gas to steam is about 1:1?

Yep.  This is true for all gas conflicts.  You just have to make sure the average density of the thin strip of gas is greater than the average density of the larger volume of gas to prevent the larger volume of gas from pushing the thin strip to the top, or bottom.  It works with ALL gases. I'd go with 1.001:1, or might as well go 1.1:1 to have more tiles fighting simultaneously. 

[goatt]

But if it’s 1:1, my O2 has larger densit than steam, and can’t create 3 kg difference. @mathmanican

[mathmanican]

4 minutes ago, goatt said:

But if it’s 1:1, my O2 has larger density than steam, and can’t create 3 kg difference.

Let's look at an example. Open up sandbox if you need to.

• Take a room that has 10 tiles tall, by 5 tiles wide, open spaces for gas (so it's 12 by 7, with tiles on both sides reducing it to 10 by 5). There are  50 tiles to fill with stuff.
• You want steam in the entire room, but you want a gas conflict to occur.  So the top row needs to be oxygen. Think 5 tiles of oxygen, and 45 tiles of steam.   
• If the top row has 100 kg of oxygen per tile, and the bottom 9 rows have 100kg per tile, then you will have 500kg of oxygen total, and 4500kg of steam total. If you have these amounts perfectly, and paint them in with debug (try it), then you will find that the room stays in perfect equilibrium. No gas conflict ensues, and your turbine won't run. 
• Paint 101kg of oxygen over one of the oxygen cells.  You now have 501 kg of oxygen, so a little more than 100kg average content.  Watch the gas conflict start.
• Now hover our mouse over the 2nd row down.  The steam and oxygen are fighting for control. You'll see numbers from 100g up to 99kg show up over the place. The key is that the low numbers constantly show up. Not always, but contantly enough that when the turbine looks to see if there is a cell with low pressure, one of the 5 cells it looks in will be low enough.  

You need a higher average content oxygen than steam to get the conflict going forever. 

[goatt]

4 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

It depends on the shape of the room, there's no set ratio of total mass. If you're using JukedByLife's design, use his 1:4 ratio, but multiply everything by 10.

20kg in each tile to start, then add 4 times the total mass of that in water.

I also had trouble with his setup before doing that.

That’s a lot of water to bring in, and that setup process is just too much work. (I’m in resistance phase) I’ll choose whatever is fitting this time, and try correct ratio next time. Or maybe I’ll try it this time.

[mathmanican]

6 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

there's no set ratio of total mass

There is a set ratio. You just have to compare average densities. 

I strongly suggest playing in sandbox or debug mode to make sure you understand the mechanics.  Once you get them down, you can force the conflict whenever, whereever you want, for all kinds of interesting devices. 

[goatt]

So the big numbers don’t matter, but small decimals do. @mathmanican

2 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I strongly suggest playing in sandbox or debug mode to make sure you understand the mechanics.

Will do, seems an interesting topic to me.

[mathmanican]

8 minutes ago, goatt said:

So the big numbers don’t matter, but small decimals do.

Correct.  The turbine compares largest pressure underneath, with smallest pressure above. So the smallest number up top is the one that wins. 

FYI, because the turbine likes to move gas upwards, you generally want to get a little more than 1.001:1 ratio of average density.  It's completely calculatable, but does depend on the shape of the room and how much open space you have.  If you have lots of steam in the room (100s of kg per tile), then the difference is much more neglibile than when you have small amounts of steam (25 kgs). So aim for anything less than 2:1 average content, and you're good.

4 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

There's no set ratio of total mass

Absolutely correct. I misread the original post.  Sorry.  If someone is trying to compare total mass, then they are comparing the wrong things.  That's the point here. 

The key thing to compare is average masses (total mass per number of tiles), where you count the tiles that should be in conflict in the denominator with the steam. Here is the key formula. 

• (total oxygen mass)/(total tiles at top - ignore conflict tiles)  should be compared with (total steam mass) / (total tiles that will have some steam - including the conflict tiles).