[help] Can't find what's wrong (AETN SPOM)

[Nemisis311]

I've been using this build in every map since the AETNs have been around, and never had a problem. On the same map I have two built, one has been my oxygen supply throughout my entire 1500+ cycle game. The other one I just recently built and have been fighting with it for about the last 50 cycles or so. I swear this AETN is over-consuming, at least that's just how it feels watching it.

I used dupe power to backup all the hydrogen lines into the storage tank, then watched to see what happens. Somehow I'm at a negative, and dropping back down the line. Can anyone see any issues with this that I'm maybe not noticing?
 

Spoiler

EDIT:  Here's the other one I have built at the other AETN and has been running fine since early game. (the third section on the bottom was added later on for other purposes, wasn't part of original build).

 

Spoiler

 

[Yunru]

That seems right to me, except for the random throttling of packet size before the bridge.

[Nemisis311]

In less than 3 cycles the whole line to AETN drained and I just had to turn the system off so it doesn't overheat. I can't find what's wrong with it.

You mentioned random throttling of packet size, which one? Could that cause a loss? Is it possible for an AETN to be bugged?

[Yunru]

I've no idea, but the pipe segment before the bridge seems empty when it shouldn't be.

I'd of thought it's just your pumps not picking up enough if it weren't for the unmoving backlog of hydrogen behind it.

 

EDIT: I'm looking at the whole thing backwards, that's why. Seems like your pumps just aren't picking up enough hydrogen. Can't tell though, because of the overlays.

[Nemisis311]

sorry, may help if I posted a basic pic without layovers to see the layout

Spoiler

 

[Yunru]

Try moving one or both of your pumps up a tile, so they catch more hydrogen?

[Xuhybrid]

Is there a reason you're opting to not split the hydrogen into it's own chamber?

I don't have a better image at hand but this system splits the hydrogen onto a single top layer. It's out of date with what i'm currently doing because now i use a pipe sensor to catch stray packets, instead of a filter. Also i use a different cooling room and i separated the two electrolyzers.

It seems to me like the system uses too much power. If the AETN seems like it's over-using, are you sure it's not the hydrogen generators over-using? Both consume hydrogen so make sure you look at both of them. With the system i showed above, there tends to be a lot more excess hydrogen. When i use an AETN, i like to use a door underneath to disable it.

I just noticed that you're using un-insulated pipes for hydrogen that is going to be consumed. This seems like a waste of cooling for something that is about to be deleted. Perhaps this is contributing.

[Nemisis311]

I like the system I'm using, I've been using it for a very long time with no issues (until this specific one). But I appreciate the other idea. I tried a lot of other spom/separation ideas in the past and just prefer this set-it-and-leave it self-cooling layout. The system power balance has always given me a hydrogen return of more than I know what to do with. Here's my 1350ish cycle stock that kept growing over time. Now I just send the excess off to burn first in my base power setup.

Spoiler

Moving the gas pumps up one, maybe. I did create a vacuum in all chambers before I connected water to the electro. I can try moving them up, but every other build has been the same without this issue before, which kind of tells me something else is causing the issue.

" I just noticed that you're using un-insulated pipes for hydrogen that is going to be consumed. This seems like a waste of cooling for something that is about to be deleted. Perhaps this is contributing. "
Does the temperature of hydrogen going into the AETN make a consumption difference? Either way that's a good point of wasted cooling power and I'll change those to insulated.

[avc15]

The only thing I see is that where you're branching H2 between the AETN and the H2 generators - that bridge will send hydrogen to the electric generators before the AETN. Pipes and gas pipes prioritize inline outputs before the next pipe segment.

So you need the bridge pointing towards your AETN and the normal half tied into your generators. You want H2 filling up the AETN's supply line first.

The way you have it set up right now, if you're using enough electricity, the AETN will run out of fuel and the whole thing overheats.

[Nemisis311]

3 minutes ago, avc15 said:

The only thing I see is that where you're branching H2 between the AETN and the H2 generators - that bridge will send hydrogen to the electric generators before the AETN. Pipes and gas pipes prioritize inline outputs before the next pipe segment.

So you need the bridge pointing towards your AETN and the normal half tied into your generators. You want H2 filling up the AETN's supply line first.

The way you have it set up right now, if you're using enough electricity, the AETN will run out of fuel and the whole thing overheats.

The bridge priority is intentional, I want to make sure the power supply always has priority. I do see the occasional hydrogen packet overflowing into the AETN, but the AETN goes through it faster than it can fill up the line.

Trying to think of what the issue could be...

• More power is being consumed than normal (it's the same power consumption as every other time I've built it in the past)
• The electrolyzer isn't producing as much hydrogen as it should.
• The AETN is consuming more than it should.
• Some packet loss somewhere in my line.
• I've somehow built this different than every other and I am just not seeing what I did wrong.

I've been messing with this for the last 2 days before I posted to see if maybe I'm just a durp and not knowing the problem.

[avc15]

1 minute ago, Nemisis311 said:

The bridge priority is intentional, I want to make sure the power supply always has priority. I do see the occasional hydrogen packet overflowing into the AETN, but the AETN goes through it faster than it can fill up the line.

Switch them, turn it back on. It'll work like a charm.

The exact reason your system is overheating is because you prioritized electricity first.

Just give it a try.

Oh hey, something I forgot, this is a SPOM. you should have surplus H2.

Well shoot.

[Nemisis311]

5 minutes ago, avc15 said:

Switch them, turn it back on. It'll work like a charm.

The exact reason your system is overheating is because you prioritized electricity first.

Just give it a try.

Take a look at the setup I've had running this whole run (second and fourth* hidden pictures I posted). It's the same. It's also the same as I've built on the last few maps I've played. My point is all the others create enough excess hydrogen to not only supply power and the AETN full time running, but store up extra overflow. Why did those all work but this one isn't?

[avc15]

yeah sorry i spoke too quickly. Since it's a spom you should have extra hydrogen.

[Nemisis311]

I'm going nuts, about to debug delete the AETN and place a new one. Has anyone ever heard of an AETN being bugged before? I don't want to just point fingers at a culprit, but it's that or replace and shift all my piping to see if that's somehow causing loss.

[Xuhybrid]

1 hour ago, Nemisis311 said:

I like the system I'm using, I've been using it for a very long time with no issues (until this specific one). But I appreciate the other idea. I tried a lot of other spom/separation ideas in the past and just prefer this set-it-and-leave it self-cooling layout. The system power balance has always given me a hydrogen return of more than I know what to do with. Here's my 1350ish cycle stock that kept growing over time. Now I just send the excess off to burn first in my base power setup.

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Moving the gas pumps up one, maybe. I did create a vacuum in all chambers before I connected water to the electro. I can try moving them up, but every other build has been the same without this issue before, which kind of tells me something else is causing the issue.

" I just noticed that you're using un-insulated pipes for hydrogen that is going to be consumed. This seems like a waste of cooling for something that is about to be deleted. Perhaps this is contributing. "
Does the temperature of hydrogen going into the AETN make a consumption difference? Either way that's a good point of wasted cooling power and I'll change those to insulated.

That's fair, however what if you never pump hydrogen from the electrolyzer? What if it was separated into the AETN chamber using gas separation? You would have no need for filters which use power, or have any partial packet problems in the pipes. I understand that it has worked fine for you until now. But, if there are improvements you could make to make it consistent, isn't that what you want? Another idea would be to remove the filters and add pipe sensors to separate the hydrogen. You'd use a lot less power this way.

It makes no difference to the consumer no.

[Nemisis311]

1 minute ago, Xuhybrid said:

That's fair, however what if you never pump hydrogen from the electrolyzer? What if it was separated into the AETN chamber using gas separation? You would have no need for filters which use power, or have any partial packet problems in the pipes. I understand that it has worked fine for you until now. But, if there are improvements you could make to make it consistent, isn't that what you want? Another idea would be to remove the filters and add pipe sensors to separate the hydrogen. You'd use a lot less power this way.

It makes no difference to the consumer no.

I have tried that in the past, even copying an exact highly efficient SPOM build. I love efficiency! But it gave me nothing but a major headache. Once my base pressurized and the line backed up, the whole system failed. I then allowed overflow to pump out into my world. It actually caused a problem where my entire map became so overpressurized I couldn't pump any gasses anywhere, couldn't create vacuum chambers, and was pumping oxygen out into space trying to fix the issue. So now I stick with mechanical filters for my SPOMs lol.

[Xuhybrid]

I hope you can find a solution then. I've never seen that kind of over-pressure XD.

[Nemisis311]

Still have no idea what the issue is, took a day off from fighting with it. Ended up debug deleting and relaying the AETN, hydrogen piping, and removing the reservoir and it's now working. So if anyone runs into this in the future, it was actually loss somewhere between those three options.