QOL Update - LOX destroys all piping, new "feature"?

[ChrisPBacon000]

Hello everyone,

I recently started exploring liquid oxygen generated using thermo-regulators and super-cooled hydrogen.  No problem, hundreds of kg LOX generated.  I've launched several rockets successfully with the LOX piped up to the oxidizer tanks on two different rockets.  Probably 100ish units of insulated piping between the LOX reservoir and the rocket.

I accidentally cooled the hydrogen too much and froze it in my pipes, so temporarily the system was "down".  Before getting to repair the pipes and bump up the hydrogen temperature, I updated the game to the latest QOL update (December 13).  Now, whenever I try to send LOX through my insulated piping up to my rockets the LOX boils almost instantly every time it touches the piping.  I have all 16 dupes repairing full-time trying to keep the damaged pipes intact, but every time they repair the new piping just starts getting wrecked by the LOX boiling.

I cannot figure out what happened; I've moved thousands of kg of LOX through the pipes no problem just 24 hours ago.  Now, the LOX barely makes it maybe 20 pipe units before too much damage occurs and the pipe fully breaks, which stops all flow.  As soon as any flow stoppage occurs, ALL the rest of the stationary LOX starts boiling and the entire chain of pipes is utterly destroyed.  No amount of repairing seems capable of keeping up with the damage and I'm burning through hundreds of kg of LOX and not getting anywhere.

Hope other more experienced players have an idea of how to fix this problem.  I'm at the point where I either play with rockets or quit the game, and it would be a shame to stop now...

 

Thanks!

[PhailRaptor]

When the pipes are repaired, what is their temperature before you turn on the LOX pump again?  The old days of building from Abyssalite and not having to worry about thermal transfer are over.  Contents will interact with the pipes, and the pipes will interact with whatever tiles they may or may not be built inside of, etc.  So your super cold LOX is probably in contact with pipes that are themselves warm, up to the cap of 95 C.

Unfortunately, your options are a touch limited.  You generally have to just pre-cool the pipes with another substance to clear the latent heat out of them before bringing in your LOX.

[ChrisPBacon000]

Thanks for the reply! 

I suspect the problem is indeed the fact that my pipes are hot, but there are a couple issues I have that are still unclear. 

1)  Why was this not a problem until I updated the game... as I mentioned I have not had the issue of LOX boiling in these insulated pipes prior to today's attempt to fuel a rocket.

2)  How on earth can I possibly cool the pipes with "another substance".  ANY other liquid or gas will solidify long before I could cool them down to anywhere near LOX temperatures.  If I need to run ice cold super-coolant through the pipes first that seems... backwards.  Use space-age coolant to create the oxidizer that lets you get to space?

I'll keep at it; maybe if I run enough LOX I'll eventually cool the pipes enough... but will the pipes reheat?  It's not super clear how insulated pipe INTERIORS interact with the larger world.

(unrelated note I'm using igneous rock, granite, or obsidian depending on whether the pipes melting from the rocket exhaust is a risk)

 

Thanks again!

[ruhrohraggy]

Try running your insulated pipe inside insulated tiles on the way to wherever it's going...doubles down on your insulated heat-transfer bonus.

As someone else mentioned, if you're running it in a vacuum, try using radiant piping so it cools faster. Once you repair it a few times and it gets down to temp, you should be good.

Also try getting your LOX as close to freezing as possible. -212C is a good temp to aim for.

Also, also try using insulated ceramic if you are not doing so already. "Insulation insulation" probably not needed until liquid hydrogen.

Here is my current playthrough on live. You can see my input and output temps. It's quite hot in the surrounding area...I only lose a few degrees F. And...heck, it's just running out in open air for most of the return trip.

[Lifegrow]

I've never used insulation - the recipe is so dumb (in terms of cost) that I just stick to insulated ceramic. Get the occasional pipe damage, but nothing major and never results in a break.

[Beowulfe]

15 hours ago, ChrisPBacon000 said:

Thanks for the reply! 

I suspect the problem is indeed the fact that my pipes are hot, but there are a couple issues I have that are still unclear. 

1)  Why was this not a problem until I updated the game... as I mentioned I have not had the issue of LOX boiling in these insulated pipes prior to today's attempt to fuel a rocket.

2)  How on earth can I possibly cool the pipes with "another substance".  ANY other liquid or gas will solidify long before I could cool them down to anywhere near LOX temperatures.  If I need to run ice cold super-coolant through the pipes first that seems... backwards.  Use space-age coolant to create the oxidizer that lets you get to space?

I'll keep at it; maybe if I run enough LOX I'll eventually cool the pipes enough... but will the pipes reheat?  It's not super clear how insulated pipe INTERIORS interact with the larger world.

(unrelated note I'm using igneous rock, granite, or obsidian depending on whether the pipes melting from the rocket exhaust is a risk)

 

Thanks again!

I haven't tested or verified if this indeed has much of an effect on temperature, but I think repairing objects transfers some small amount of heat from the repair material to the object being repaired...?

Is it possible that you're stuck in a loop where you're cooling your pipes, repairing them with warmer material (and warming them up again), and then damaging them again because of it?

[Sasza22]

Important question. Are the pipes in vacuum?

If so it is advised to change them to radiant ones. They will cool much faster and after a few initial packets they will no longer transfer heat to the LOX. If possible try running really cold super coolant through your piping first so they get precooled before you run LOX. This way they can`t transfer heat to the LOX and the system won`t break.

[ChrisPBacon000]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

1 hour ago, Sasza22 said:

Important question. Are the pipes in vacuum?

If so it is advised to change them to radiant ones. They will cool much faster and after a few initial packets they will no longer transfer heat to the LOX. If possible try running really cold super coolant through your piping first so they get precooled before you run LOX. This way they can`t transfer heat to the LOX and the system won`t break.

The pipes in question are embedded in insulated igneous rock, and are themselves either made of insulated granite or insulated igneous rock.

I've decided to mass-produce ceramic and try to create pipes out of this material.  I didn't realize ceramic's thermal conductivity is nearly 3 times LOWER than other materials so the heat transfer to the LOX should be much less severe.  Hopefully this works.  For now I'm using oxylite as a temporary measure so I can gather fullerene and then create supercoolant.  I hopefully can pre-cool the ceramic pipes, and from there they should be good to go for a long while.

Cheers!

 

[ruhrohraggy]

29 minutes ago, ChrisPBacon000 said:

  I hopefully can pre-cool the ceramic pipes, and from there they should be good to go for a long while.

Shouldn't need to do this if your LoX is cold enough, maybe if it's sitting on condensation threshold...but you can get it a fair bit past that...

Better safe than sorry I suppose.

[ChrisPBacon000]

Quick update for anyone still struggling with boiling LOX in pipes:

 

I eventually succeeded in transporting my oxygen by cooling it further (-190 C) and pumping through insulated ceramic pipes. I also removed all valves and liquid shut offs to ensure no dead spots occurred where flow might stop. Many launches late4 my new big problem is the slow rate of introducing new oxygen into the liquefying chamber, as I initially built the room with just one gas inlet pipe.