Insane power of little packets or some Oil Boilers

[AnotherBoris]

Having succumbed to the common tradition of riveting Oil Boiler out of nothing, I created my own.

I used the fact that liquid packs of 1000g and less do not change the aggregate state inside the pipes and do not break them. I also used cooled glass postcooling to preheat the oil.

And... Houston we have a problem

Even without preheating, the system is quietly boiling 1000g/s and the glass inside continues to raise temperature due to new packs.

Thus, the system's productivity is 600kg of Natuiral Gas for ~300kg of Glass per cycle.

Spoiler

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[AnotherBoris]

I tried the same with the magma. Magma - a good source of heat, because the heat from there takes only one pipe, and the other two use the heat of the gas. The main thing is to bring the oil to the boiling point inside the pipes. This will give the greatest gain in energy.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/93061-oil-boiler-v2-hyper-magma-efficiency/

@AzeTheGreat created a boiler with a capacity of 18 kg of gas per 1 kg of oil. I checked my. It all started well. 3 kg/s. Then three tiles of magma (about 5500 kg) became a stone. The rate of temperature loss of the stone began to decrease ... And then I noticed that the temperature is half-way outside, to the cooler, while in the zone boiling hundreds of kilograms of 1000C+ gas. What was left for me? I turned off the pipe, taking heat from the magma. Two pipes take heat worse. The heat went out even faster. However, in the boiling zone the temperature drops only 4C per cycle!

Total after 20 test cycles:
- 5500 kg of stone 1065С
- 25000kg of gas in the storage
- 1005С in the evaporation zone. The cooling rate is 4C/cycle.
- 2kg/s of gas is boiled.

Yes, I know that the heat set-off must be automated. It's easy - put the temperature sensor at 300C somewhere in the middle. The capacity to increase is more difficult - the boiling zone does not hold more than 3 Vents. However, 2-3kg/s for practical purposes is enough. And I do not need automation of the stone pick-up - once in 40-50 cycles it is possible to deconstruct and dig stone by the hands and transfer 5500kg to the post-cooling zone (which will increase the productivity for some more)

I think this alone is insane?

Spoiler

 

[Carnis]

I'm not entirely sure, but If we assume igneous still converts heat at 650 quickly enough to boil 2kg/s, then your system can run between 1725C to 650C.

With a cooling rate of 4C/cycle, this means your 5500kg magma at 1725 will cool for 268 cycles while boiling.

Provided with 1200kg/cycle output, you are making 320k of gas until the process stops.

That would Be 58,5kg gas per 1kg magma used.

If you insulated your cooling side this ratio should improve, nonetheless its the best conversion rate Ive seen on the forums.

Can you share save? I think a patch May break your Pipe.. but probably not anytlme soon.

[AnotherBoris]

3 minutes ago, Carnis said:

With a cooling rate of 4C/cycle, this means your 5500kg magma at 1725 will cool for 268 cycles while boiling.

Nope I mean NG inside cool by 4C per Cycle. I do not touch stone

I attach save. It's test save, do not be surprised at the amount of garbage in different unexpected places

Volcano Oil Boiler.sav

8 minutes ago, Carnis said:

I think a patch May break your Pipe.. but probably not anytlme soon.

I'm not sure about that. This is not a bug. This is a specially conceived by the developers behavior of the pipe. Think about it: somewhere in the code there is a condition that compares "if the amount of liquid is more than 1000 then break the pipe". Why did they insert it? Did they have any reason for that? And because I paid attention to this fact, this reason did not disappear

The only option where developers can remove this is if someone starts complaining about the fact that this is a bug and exploit

[Tunechi_sama]

explain to me that liquid valve and shutoff bridge funny business.I just see a bunch of ins and outs and my mind blanks

[Carnis]

Astonishing, it needs no heat source at all. Just the thermal runway of the oil - > NG conversion. Confusing, that we have not come even close to this in our tinkering with breaking pipes.

@AnotherBoris

I figured it out.

Your boiler heats oil at cost of 1,69 J/g/K not just to 400, but to around 1000C. Then chills at 2,191.

You get ~300 joules / gram on excess of a non piped system. That means Each packets is generating about 500kW energy into your heat exchanger.

Your efficiency only goes up The higher you go.

*

If The Pipe liquid density does not hint you of a bug then maybe The lack of element conversion even 600 degrees above boiling might?

You should report this, but I think The devs Will read this anyways.

[AnotherBoris]

2 hours ago, Tunechi_sama said:

explain to me that liquid valve and shutoff bridge funny business.I just see a bunch of ins and outs and my mind blanks

Its Multi-exit Accurate Valve

Btw...

4.5kg/s boiler test. (And minus 2.5 hours of my life :))

Start: 5520kg of 1545C magma.

0 cycle. ~500g/s Oil. Heating boiling zone.

1-9 cycle. 5000g/s. Filling whole boiler by NG.

10 cycle. Stone - 850C. Boiling zone - ???, 8600kg NG in storage.

11 cycle. Stone - 809C. Boiling zone - ???, Heat take pipe off. (4000 g/s Oil)

20 cycle. Stone - 809C. Boiling zone - 576C. Heat take pipe on. 32000kg NG in storage

21 cycle. Stone - 775.C. Boiling zone - 611C. Heat take pipe off.

22 cycle. Stone - 775.C. Boiling zone - 595.1C.

23 cycle. Stone - 775.C. Boiling zone - 588.5C.

24 cycle. Stone - 775.C. Boiling zone - 583.3C.

25 cycle. Stone - 775.C. Boiling zone - 579.1C.

26 cycle. Stone - 775.C. Boiling zone - 575.6C. Heat take pipe on. 50400kg NG in storage

27 cycle. Stone - 744.9.C. Boiling zone - 604C. Heat take pipe off.

28 cycle. Stone - 744.9.C. Boiling zone - 593.4C

 

So... after 25 cycles i collect 50t NG. And start 5-cycle cycles 1 Cycle - all 5 pipes (3000 kg per cycle), 4 cycles - 4 pipes (2400 kg per cycle). 12600 kg total. Each cycle drop temperatire of stone by 25C. and at end of test i have 745. So.. until 550C i have at least 4 cycles. 12600*4 = 50400.

So... from 5520kg of 1545C magma.i can obtain 100000kg NG. 18kg NG per 1 kg of Magma Same result as @AzeTheGreat but much simpler construction.

And it without preheating!!!

Spoiler

P.S. Explain me please how create user links likes "@AnotherBoris"

P.P.S. Ah! Temerature sensor is useless. temperature always go out and always grow on sensor. I see only one way to automate this - just power on heat taking pipe 1/5 of all time

Volcano Oil Boiler 2.sav

1 hour ago, Carnis said:

You should report this, but I think The devs Will read this anyways.

Done!

[AnotherBoris]

Let's continue

Here is prototype of simple Oil->Petroleum converter. The main feature is the use of tiny (1g) packages of the least thermal capacity gas of constant temperature as a temperature meter.

 

Spoiler

 

 

It is understood that in the upper tank - oil from Oil Well, which has a constant temperature.

 

And... Its work!

[KittenIsAGeek]

Wow. That's.. Huh. I'm gonna have to try that. LOL.  

[The Flying Fox]

Wow @AnotherBoris Using chlorine like that for sensing higher temperatures is in-genius!  By simply increasing the flow of chlorine into the loop, you can get a semi-accurate reading/idea of the temperature of magma!  Awesome!  In this case, the valve is only set to 5G/s.  In both cases, the ratio between the magma temperature and what the pipe sensor is reading is basically 6.3!

[AnotherBoris]

37 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

Using chlorine like that for sensing higher temperatures is in-genius

Not so much The value of this idea is broken about the possibility of its realization.

The idea is not new. Measure the temperature difference between something cold and something hot. Problems, in fact, two:
1) Loss of energy during measurement.
2) The mass of the thermosensor.

And these problems are interrelated. The faster the heat exchange, the faster the temperature of the sensor changes, but the greater the heat loss. In practice, in order for the system to manage to regulate our system, the heat losses must be significant - in the region of tens of percent of the payload. Hence the idea arose that it was not a sensor that measured the temperature of itself, but a sensor that measured the temperature of something else. And my choice is not rich!

And now we look here. In my case (Diamond window + Ceramic insulated pipe), the chlorine temperature is somewhere around 65% of the pipe temperature. That is, for the 450C this is 290C. Thus, chlorine is heated by 290 - 80 = 210C.

210 * 0.48 = 100 J

And oil, in turn, is heated at 10C, that is, 1000g of oil gets

1000 * 1.69 * 10 = 16900 J

That is, we spend 0.6% of energy on temperature measurement. From this side everything, it seems, is not bad, yes

But there is one small problem: what else can we measure so? To measure the temperature of natural gas, this design is not suitable. 540 * 0.65 = 351. It would seem that it is possible to reduce the thermal conductivity of the measuring tube, but how? There is no insulator better than ceramics. Abyssalit does not fit - it isolates completely. A simple pipe from the abyssalite gives us a chlorine temperature somewhere in 55%, but the pipe itself is heated too slowly. VERY slow. If we replace the diamond window with something that is less conductive, say, an obsidian block, then it will start to heat very slowly too, and there is practically no gain in the chlorine temperature.Thus, a ceramic insulated pipe inside a diamond or metal block is the only option. And you can measure them anywhere up to 500C. That is, only the point of transition of oil to petroleum. For the "genius idea" it is somehow painfully non-alternative, do not you think?

37 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

the valve is only set to 5G/s

This is also an option to lower the temperature of chlorine, increasing the range of measured temperatures. Maybe. I personally did not try But at the same time the heat loss will increase proportionately. That is, instead of 0.6% you will get 3%, and this is already a figure. Not so big, yes, but not small. However, if it is possible to measure the temperature in 600-700С, then it is possible to suffer Although about the measurement of the temperature inside the Oil-> NG converter, I have another idea And it seems to be working, I'm just too lazy to bring it to mind and lay out

 

Update: Although, if after heating inside an insulated pipe, the gas is still cooled inside an insulated pipe, then maybe we will be able to expand the range of measured temperatures This idea will also need to be checked ...

[wachunga]

I still use this method for high temperature thermo sensing.

For the cold reference I use a wheezewort as it's convenient, self contained, and self regulating. Wheezeworts will never cool gases to within 5C of their condensation point. If you use a sufficiently small amount of chlorine in the sensor compartment, a wheezewort in CO2 will stabilize at -42C. Which allows controlling temps up to 642C. If you needed to go higher, you could use thermo regulators with hydrogen to lower your cold reference down to -230C without much trouble. That would allow for controlling temperatures up to 830C.

An example crude -> petro:

Power the door and you can control the temperature at the vent to within a couple degrees, 405C-408C in this case.

 

Using only 1g of chlorine in the sensor compartment probably leaks something like 100-200W through to the wheezewort.  I ran some tests and found that 100g of chlorine would stabilize with an 80C difference between the hot and cold side with the wheezewort in a chlorine atmosphere (2.4kW of cooling). Reducing that to 10g stabilized at an 800C difference. Assuming the linear relationship holds true for 1g, the heat bleed through = chlorine mass * temperature delta * 0.3. Or 136W for 1g with a cold side of -42C and a hot side of 410C. Obviously this is back of napkin math, but you get the idea.

[AnotherBoris]

27 minutes ago, wachunga said:

I still use this method for high temperature thermo sensing.

Its exactly what i am talking about. 25 kg Thermosensor with direct thermal exchange. Large energy losses and a slow reaction rate. This is the same idea from which I made a start And I gave up the idea of using a separate cooler. Wheezewort in this case.I am greedy and even those insignificant 0.6% I use to preheat the original oil. Everything for the front, everything for Victory!

And.. I try 2+ g of chlorine in my coinstruction. Thanks @The Flying Fox for his advice 2g can easy measure temperature up to 750C. It's enough for producing NG. I even created another boiler for the test. Unfortunately, this monster of device engineering turned out to be slightly ... non-working and therefore people can not be shown it, but thermometers work fine in it!

Spoiler

 

[wachunga]

I very much like your enthusiasm for not wasting a single J of energy. But I'm not confident enough that the crude will always be the same temperature, so I use the wheezewort. The waste is insignificant enough for me.

 

[AnotherBoris]

Just now, wachunga said:

I very much like your enthusiasm for not wasting a single J of energy.

Well .. actually I was starting with the idea of using wheezewort as a source -60C. But then I thought: the temperature difference will be too great, there are also other permanent sources. For example, 40C from Sieve or Carbon Skimmer. But for them you need to build a certain device (however, as for wheezewort). And I do not like to multiply entities. And, in the end, I quickly came to the idea of measuring the difference between the entrance and the exit. No additional buildings (almost), no problems. And the fact that the oil temperature can vary within, say, 40C ... It does not really matter. So our final thermometer will lie at + -10C. In our case, it's not scary.