Graphics crash

Have you maybe considered that your graphics card might be dying? I mean a 460 is pretty old ....

ONI may not be stressing the graphics card but it is using advanced features to draw the gas/liquids hence the directx 11 requirement.

 

I guess you could try doing a clean install of the drivers and maybe do some graphics stress testing. Also if you're overclocking the graphics turn that off.

Yes, I've had the thought lingering in the back of my mind that I should upgrade to a newer graphics card. I just haven't gotten the budget together for it yet. As far as I'm concerned, if I need to buy a new one, it's gonna be a damn good one that should last me a good few years - so the budget for a new one is a fair aways off yet.

I'm going to assume there is a good number of people around the world looking to buy this game who aren't running top shelf PC set ups, so I don't think the devs could just put this down to 'you should buy a new graphics card', if they want to reach the broadest customer audience.

I always clean install my drivers where possible, and since I only updated the nvidia driver a 2 or 3 weeks back, that shouldn't be the issue.

I never overclock.

I'm not going to bother with stress testing when I already know my little precious is chugging away best it can, but it's not going to be capable of handling the higher end demands of current year releases.

I just didn't think from the look of it this game would be that demanding, graphically.

I never had any trouble with Don't Starve or Rimworld, and ONI seems similar to those in some respects.

It's not graphically demanding, it runs well even on a Intel HD 4600. I was just saying it uses features that usually only those graphically demanding games use so that might explain why the only other game you have this happen to is FF.

Was not saying you might need a new graphics card because it is not good enough, it's because there might be something wrong with it. Completely different reasons.

 

EDIT:
Since you have a intel CPU you can try plugging your monitor into the motherboard and using the intel graphics and see if that runs the game.

Edited November 21, 2017 by AlexRou

I've noticed something I hadn't noticed before, since I normally play with the game's audio turned down while I listen to other things (80's music ftw!). The audio also pauses for roughly 2 seconds before continuing.

 

AlexRou - Thanks for the suggestion re: onboard graphics. I'd completely forgotten my mobo now has a hdmi port onboard am about to give it a try right now.

Edited November 23, 2017 by 01Kate10
Removed the 'd' I'd put on the end of AlexRou's name. Sorry, wasn't intentional, just muscle memory. I'm too practised in typing 'd' s at the end of 'ou' s.

Ah-HAH!!

 

This time the screen blanked for only a second and then came back on instead of staying off.

 

However this time the audio didn't pause ... which makes me wonder whether it is the same problem, or a new one. I'll keep playing to see if it repeats.

 

But, at least this time I didn't have to reboot my PC - I'm calling that progress!!

 

Event Viewer log for this and previous ONI crash/application hangs.

 

One thing - there's 3 'application hang' reports (attached) another 2 non-hang reports, but I know I've had more crashes than that. :/

ONI crash 20171123.txt

ONI crash 20171119.txt

ONI crash 20171121.txt

I had to switch back to using the gtx460 the onboard graphics were fine with ONI (although ONI did still have that crash as reported above), apart from it weirdly shifting resolution down to 10xx something (can't remember the exact resolution) from my screen's native 1980 after that application hang.

But when I tried another game that required 3d gameplay (was trying out Urban Empires) the gameplay lag was SHIIIIIT.

I really really like your game and I want to continue playing it, but I'm not going to risk another crash. One of the crashes I had yesterday resulted in there being a disk error when the disk check occurred after having to a power button reboot (because no graphics).

I can't risk damaging my hard drives. I rely on my computer for everyday living and really can't afford the costs of any possible necessary replacements parts at this time.

I really hope to hear back from your team on this.

Edited November 23, 2017 by 01Kate10
wanted to highlight a certain portion of the post that may have relevance to identifying the cause of the problem.

From your descriptions I would seriously get that PC looked at and maybe even replace it. Sadly I don't think there is anything the devs can do for you since it sounds more like your PC is about to die but you are free to wait for a dev to reply if you wish.

Thanks for the suggestion AlexRou, but since ONI is the only game causing a serious issue, I don't think the conclusion that I need to replace my PC is warranted.

 

This is an issue with the game, not my PC.

Edited November 23, 2017 by 01Kate10

Just now, 01Kate10 said:

since ONI is the only game causing a serious issues, I don't think the conclusion that I need to replace my PC is warranted.

You are the only one with such issues and based on all the things you described plus aging hardware that is my conclusion. Of course you can think otherwise but I'm just saying you should get it looked at to be safe, you depending so much on the PC should give you even more reasons to be safe. Since there is nothing more for me to add here I'll stop checking up on this report.

AlexRou, I realise you're trying to be helpful, and I thank you for your intent.

 

However concluding that I need to replace my entire PC because of this one game that's not even in it's release form yet and is having application hangs which disrupts a user's entire PC setup is an unrealistic conclusion bordering on fanboi-ism.

 

I can't even say that my old gtx460 is the cause since it's shown (given it's extremely capable handling of Urban Empires compared to the onboard graphics) it's still working very well indeed. (My little precious it is).

 

As I said in my first post, when I've had the ' nvlddmkm ' issue occur previously with FFXIV (a far more graphically demanding game) it was resolved when I altered my expectations of using the game on my PC hardware via the graphics settings.

 

THIS GAME DOES NOT HAVE THOSE USER OPTIONS!!

 

If there is something in the game that requires use of newer graphics capabilities such that older graphics cards like mine will not be able to handle it (as you suggested might be the case earlier), then the devs should either:

(a) allow options in the graphics section allowing users to opt out of it in their gameplay; or, if their game won't function without it,

(b) warn users that only cards with a certain functionality will be able to play the game.

 

Frankly I have no idea what the nvidia comparison to the recommended 'intel HD 4600' is, so if the dev team gets back to me and says 'we're sorry but your beloved gtx460 is simply too old to handle the demands of this game', then fine. I'll pack it in no matter how much fun the game is, and I'll go back to steam to request a refund because I would have spent money on a product that is unfit for purpose (ie being used with a gtx460 card).

 

As I said above, it would be unrealistic of the devs to expect that every potential buyer of their product would have the latest hardware. If they want to reach the broadest audience possible they would have that in mind.

 

More than that, it's people like me with computers that don't necessarily have this year's latest PC equipment/specs who experience problems and report them that help give dev teams like this one an idea of where their game might be running into problems.

 

So, while I appreciate your intent, AlexRou, you might want to tone down the 'blame the problem on the reporter' mentality, as in the long run, in the bigger picture, it doesn't help dev teams like this one polish their product.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by 01Kate10

1 minute ago, 01Kate10 said:

If there is something in the game that requires use of newer graphics capabilities such that older graphics cards like mine will not be able to handle it

Yours does fully have all the capabilities, nowhere did I say it didn't. This is not a matter of your machine not having the capabilities to run the game, everything says it should. In fact you are way above the min requirements. This is a matter of "does your PC have a hardware/software fault"

 

15 minutes ago, 01Kate10 said:

As I said above, it would be unrealistic of the devs to expect that every potential buyer of their product would have the latest hardware. If they want to reach the broadest audience possible they would have that in mind.

FYI the requirements allow PCs about 10 years old to play the game.

 

5 minutes ago, 01Kate10 said:

However concluding that I need to replace my entire PC because of this one game that's not even in it's release form yet and is having application hangs which disrupts a user's entire PC setup is an unrealistic conclusion bordering on fanboi-ism.

I didn't say to outright buy a new pc, I said to get it checked and if needed get a new one. There are tons of things that are ridiculously hard to figure out over the internet so getting it looked at would be the best and fastest option.

 

You can think I have the "blame the reporter mentality" all you want, the fact is that the only thing I can do is help you rule out something being wrong with your PC. Also ruling out the user's PC is the first thing any dev would do for a such a bug report. As I felt your PC might have a fault I recommended you to get it looked at, not cause I don't think there is nothing wrong with ONI, I honestly think there is something wrong with your PC and rather you be safe as you depend so much on it. Please don't misunderstand my intentions or reasoning.

Ok. Thank you.

Couldn't stay away. (No self-control whatsoever.) So played a 12+ hr stretch straight over saturday.

Not one single crash. Which is completely different from my previous experience.

Only two things were different:

(1) I played ONI windowed in 1024x768 while I watched videos.

(2) When I tried using the onboard graphics instead of my gtx460 (as mentioned above) I had to adjust the integrated graphics option in the BIOS from 'auto' (not disabled - default was auto) to 'enabled' so that I would get a monitor signal through the motherboard's HDMI connection. When I switched back to the gtx460 I didn't go back into the BIOS, and left the option set to 'enabled'.

I contacted nvidia support and spoke to 'Prakash' via their web-based chat support. He said that leaving the BIOS integrated options at 'enabled' could lead to problems with conflicting drivers, etcetera, and was not the reason I was no longer having the graphics crashes, but then he also said I could leave it at enabled if I found my PC was no longer affected by the graphics crash. (So will it cause conflicting drivers or not...!?! oh well...).

FYI.

Edited November 25, 2017 by 01Kate10

Well ... as long as it works, why it works isn't important. Have fun with the game.

Update 23/2/2018

The following comment is purely about how I 'feel' my PC is reacting, I don't really have the computer skills or equipment to be able to monitor what is actually happening.

It feels like my lil old gtx460 is overheating. I've found that if I limit my playing ONI to a handful of game days, and additionally give my graphics card an hour or two break between game playing sessions (ie switch off, or simply just browse some news articles or whatever) I can reduce the likelihood of a freeze/crash to near zero.

Additionally, if I have the integrated graphics option in BIOS set to enabled, rather than completely freeze my entire PC it seems only the graphics stop working. My PC continues to run, I continue to hear the game running, and from the audio cues I can hear when the new game day starts so as to be assured of an auto save (if it's been a game day that I didn't want to lose) before I use my PC's sleep function to close down and then wake back up. When it wakes it comes back in 800x600 graphics mode and the applications are still running. I simply close down the applications and do a restart and the PC will reset to it's normal graphics 1980x1050 settings. I could adjust the graphics back manually without restarting, but I have the sense that it's safer to allow the PC to do a restart than not.

It may be, as AlexRou suggested above, that my card is simply too old or worn out from use. It may be that hijacking of people's cards for cryptocurrency mining that I've read about (I don't touch crypto myself, but I've read that websites can be used to hijack my graphics card to do so) has worn down my card. Maybe it's a combination of all above. Whatever it is, from the way it behaves, I'm pretty sure my beloved gtx460 feels like it's overheating where previously it seemingly would run applications like this without trouble (within reasonable boundaries - as per FFXIV mention above). I'm looking to upgrade to a newer card, I'm just hobbling by in the meantime to save up the dosh and hopefully have the price of graphics cards drop back down to a more reasonable level. (This crypto craze has to end soon I'd think with all this talk of fraud and a likely crash.)

However, I would like to ask the devs to consider whether it is possible that PC setups like mine - with fairly new/recent CPU/motherboard processing capacity, fairly old/outdated graphics card - can have an in-game option to shift some of the processing load from the graphics card back to the CPU. AlexRou indicated above that the game does make use of some more of the graphics card intensive processing abilities so I'm wondering whether shifting that load is a possible option.

That's it from me.

Best of luck with the game, devs. It's a wonderfully engrossing game, and I'm really enjoying the recent job board update. o/

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by 01Kate10
spelling

@01Kate10

Thanks for updating this thread. You're not alone, and I'm sure you speak for a lot of others who don't read the forum. 

Like yours, my system is older, but still well within the listed requirements. For me, the game was great fun until the Tubular update, which brought all sorts of problems. In fact, some of the symptoms I have are similar, especially the sound stuttering or continuing to play after a freeze- but that may only be a coincidence.

Your request is an good one, and I want to encourage the devs to consider it. Maybe these freezes happen to us because the game takes advantage of options that we don't have? It would be great if we could disable them (or even if the game checked beforehand and disabled them for us?).

It's more work, I know, but maybe it's already part of the development plan; I just want to note that I'm crossing my fingers that it will happen, so I can play this game again.

I think both of you are misunderstanding somethings.

17 hours ago, 01Kate10 said:

can have an in-game option to shift some of the processing load from the graphics card back to the CPU.

This is too much work for 0 benefit and is actually worse in terms of performance so no one will do this. If instead of CPU you meant the graphics chip on the CPU, then still no one would do partial processing on it as there is no situation where it has any benefit to a game like ONI for people with working graphics cards.

But a either or thing could be possible, where you can decide to use the graphics card or the integrated graphics chip on the CPU but not both at the same time. However few developers do this as there is very little to no demand for it and so developing and maintaining it seems like a waste of resource.

It's sad your graphics card isn't working right but realistically there is not much the devs can do for you. You can try to post in the forums and build up demand for the ability to select which graphics chip to process the game on as that is the most likely thing they would do. The more people are asking for it the more likely they will add it.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forum/133-oxygen-not-included-suggestions-and-feedback/

 

1 hour ago, Jagulard said:

Maybe these freezes happen to us because the game takes advantage of options that we don't have?

No, they got nothing to do with your freezes.

1 hour ago, Jagulard said:

It would be great if we could disable them (or even if the game checked beforehand and disabled them for us?).

As long as your graphics chip is DirectX 11 certified, which is almost any graphics card since 2010 it will have everything the game needs. There is no situation where a graphics card has DirectX 11 certification and are missing certain "options".

Adding a way to disable these "options" will do nothing to your FPS as the game already uses so little graphical resources.

From your bug report you have a GTX 780M, this is the top of the line mobile graphics chip in the year it was released, really there is nothing wrong with the "options" or graphical performance. 

You can and should think about possible hardware faults or overheating before anything related to the game as ruling out your system should be the first thing to do when dealing with freezes and performance issues, especially so for old hardware. 

55 minutes ago, AlexRou said:

You can and should think about possible hardware faults or overheating before anything related to the game as ruling out your system should be the first thing to do when dealing with freezes and performance issues, especially so for old hardware. 

Thank you, AlexRou. I know, from your responses in other threads, that you put a lot of thought into your answers, and that you have a lot of patience for what surely must seem to be silly questions.

That said, I think you're pushing back a little too hard on this.

For me, it is a matter of not being able to play the game since the Tubular update. FPS is not, nor never has been a problem for me- but sudden freezes are. And no, it is not a hardware issue: these problems come up only with ONI.

The only response I have from the devs says that they have not been able to reproduce the problem. Personally, I suspect they are trying to reproduce it on a more recent OS, and that may be the reason.

But there are doubtless other possibilities, given the variables involved with so many hardware/software combos—which, ultimately, is why I encouraged the dev to look into the possibility of disabling features that older hardware (or OSes) don't have. I agree that it may be too much work for too little benefit, but I prefer to take the word of those who have a vested interest in making that decision.

30 minutes ago, Jagulard said:

Thank you, AlexRou. I know, from your responses in other threads, that you put a lot of thought into your answers, and that you have a lot of patience for what surely must seem to be silly questions.

That said, I think you're pushing back a little too hard on this.

For me, it is a matter of not being able to play the game since the Tubular update. FPS is not, nor never has been a problem for me- but sudden freezes are. And no, it is not a hardware issue: these problems come up only with ONI.

The only response I have from the devs says that they have not been able to reproduce the problem. Personally, I suspect they are trying to reproduce it on a more recent OS, and that may be the reason.

But there are doubtless other possibilities, given the variables involved with so many hardware/software combos—which, ultimately, is why I encouraged the dev to look into the possibility of disabling features that older hardware (or OSes) don't have. I agree that it may be too much work for too little benefit, but I prefer to take the word of those who have a vested interest in making that decision.

It may seem like I'm pushing back hard but from knowing how things work and what freezes mean, there is really nothing to do with graphical features. The only thing turning off graphical features do is affect your FPS and when they are not available the game simply doesn't work (not even show a image), it will not cause a freeze. 

If you suspect that a newer OSX doesn't have the issue then is there a reason for not wanting to update?

I only bring up ruling out the hardware/system as it is the easiest thing to rule out so at least there is one less variable when trying to find out the issue. As this is the first time you've mentioned that ONI is the only game causing problems then sure now hardware issues seem less likely but still worth a shot doing some stress tests just to be on the safe side.

The devs are already doing everything they can to figure it out on their side and they can't so wouldn't it be fair and make sense to try to do everything you can on your side? 

From now on please keep talk on your issue to your own report and I'll reply there instead. 

 

@Jagulard

To explain why I'm pushing people to check their systems first:

If a light in your house stopped working is the first thing you do to call up the power company (game devs)? No, the first thing you do is flick the switch a few times, make sure all the other lights are on, then go ohh maybe it's a blown bulb. Even if all the lights are off you would go check the breakers and then you would check your neighbors to see if their lights are on before finally calling the power company.

If you called the power company when it's a blown bulb, do you want them to check the entire cabling from the power plant all the way to your house and the bulb only to find out that the bulb is blown which would have taken you 5 minutes to check for?

Same logic applies to games and software. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by AlexRou