thermal nullifier not cooling past -10*C

[nameorgame]

on cycle 700 I started to make cooling loops with a thermal nullifier I found to help cool down my base, but it's now cycle 720 and I let the thermal nullifier run those 20 cycles and I cant get it to cool past -10*C. is there something I'm doing wrong with the set up?

originally I had the thermal nullifier set up to cool the cold biome that I accidental made heated up. i had box it in with gold metal tile around the thermal nullifier and put about 2Kg hydrogen in it, and it was working for a wile till i need the cooling loops

the radiant gas pipes are made out of wolframite, the normal pipes are granite, the insolated gas pipes are granite as well because I just had so much of it,  

at one point I had try to have a petroleum cooling loop going to cool the cool steam geyser but that ended up making things worse.

side note, if anyone can tell me how; specific heat capacity works and how thermal conductivity in a way that is easy to understand. like if your trying to explain it  to a child a 7 year old child lets say that be help full to.

[Neotuck]

well for one you are not using insulated tiles and it's allowing heat in

[pacovf]

For your last question:

Specific heat capacity is how much "energy" you need to warm up some material by one degree (and, inversely, how much "energy" you need to take away to lower its temperature by one degree). It's kind of like an "inertia" for temperature.

Thermal conductivity is how fast a material changes temperature when exposed to a different temperature. You want a low thermal conductivity when you are trying to insulate two different areas, and high thermal conductivity when you want the two areas to have the same temperature.

[nameorgame]

20 hours ago, pacovf said:

For your last question:

Specific heat capacity is how much "energy" you need to warm up some material by one degree (and, inversely, how much "energy" you need to take away to lower its temperature by one degree). It's kind of like an "inertia" for temperature.

Thermal conductivity is how fast a material changes temperature when exposed to a different temperature. You want a low thermal conductivity when you are trying to insulate two different areas, and high thermal conductivity when you want the two areas to have the same temperature.

thank you so vary much for that! that was supper easy to under stand! thank you!

 

20 hours ago, Neotuck said:

well for one you are not using insulated tiles and it's allowing heat in

i'll try insulating it. thank you

[nameorgame]

is there anything I should do, if I want to expand the thermal nullifier to the right closer to the steam vent?

I want to start cooling that water from 90 ish degrees down to 40 or 30 degrees and I want to start back up the petroleum cooling loop I had and use that to cool heavy equipment.

also Neotuck thank you again for the suggestion about insolating the tiles around the nullifier it help get it the temp down to -25. do you have any more suggestions on how to get it colder?  and pacovf thank you again as well for your post as well. helps so much.

[pacovf]

Water has a relatively high Specific Heat Capacity, around 4DTU/g/C. An AETN absorbs about 80kDTU/s.

what this means is that, even with a perfect setup, an AETN can only cool about 400g/s of water by 50 degrees. I don’t know what you want the water for, but that’s not a lot. 

Since hydrolisers output 70C oxygen no matter what, usually the best thing to do with a cool steam vent is to let it cool down into a liquid, and send the high temperature water to a hydroliser. That way you don’t have to cool that water too much.

[Neotuck]

What kind of gas is the room with the nulifier?  Hydrogen is the best

Rather than trying to expand the nullifier to the vent it would be easier to bring the hot water to the nulifier.  Use insulated pipes if you don't want the hot water to heat up the area in between

also here's an off topic tip about the forums:

If you want to get some one's attention without quoting then type the @ key before typing their name and it will show up in a orange highlighted text like this @nameorgame then the person will get a notification they they have been mentioned in a post and will be more likely to see it 

[avc15]

Nullifier has a limited energy output, so once you've got it insulated if you want it even colder you need to:

- first make sure nothing is restricting it from going lower (it can't get near the condensation point of anything it's touching, so, no liquids, no gases that are near condensation points. This is why you fill the room with H2 and purge everything else - H2 has a very low condensation point. Its high thermal conductivity and heat capacity help, but the condensation point is the biggest thing for AETN since its cooling output is stated in DTU not degrees.

- Now, if it's still stalled at -25C you have to cut down its cooling load. In your case that might mean throttling H2 flow through that radiator you've got.

- If you prefer not to throttle down H2 flow, add more cooling. Get H2 in that room to high pressure and put 12 wheezeworts in there next to it, to double the cooling capacity. But the H2 has to be at high pressure once you start using wheezeworts.

[nameorgame]

6 hours ago, pacovf said:

what this means is that, even with a perfect setup, an AETN can only cool about 400g/s of water by 50 degrees. I don’t know what you want the water for, but that’s not a lot. 

Since hydrolisers output 70C oxygen no matter what, usually the best thing to do with a cool steam vent is to let it cool down into a liquid, and send the high temperature water to a hydroliser. That way you don’t have to cool that water too much.

@pacovf i use the water to simply make ice to help cool other sections of my base that im just too lazy to run pies too because it's just soo much work to do so and i'm plain lazy to do so. long live the lazy life!. and the part of the Electrolyzer's i find that if the water is a a cool temp the oxygen comes out of the same temp that the water when into the Electrolyzer's. i haven done many test to say that for sure but the last two times i done it, it seems to work. i'll still take your word for it tho. and i hope to use the water to tap into oil wells that i come across. also, i want to cool the steam so it can stop over pressurizing the vent because that vent is magical. it not only outputs steam it out puts hydrogen, some time polluted oxygen. magical! (or it could have came from the polluted oxygen from underneath it, who knows. i like to think it magic)  

6 hours ago, Neotuck said:

What kind of gas is the room with the nulifier?  Hydrogen is the best.

Rather than trying to expand the nullifier to the vent it would be easier to bring the hot water to the nulifier.  Use insulated pipes if you don't want the hot water to heat up the area in between

also here's an off topic tip about the forums:

If you want to get some one's attention without quoting then type the @ key before typing their name and it will show up in a orange highlighted text like this @nameorgame then the person will get a notification they they have been mentioned in a post and will be more likely to see it 

 @Neotuckthe gas that with the thermal nullifier is hydrogen. and im not necessarily expanding the "thermal nullifier hydrogen box" to the seam vent im just expanding it to the right witch ends up to closer the vent to make more room for some more cooling loops or to make some power using the natural gas generators.and get more polluted water/ice to help with my base or to dip on that gold volcano to make dirt, or make raw gold (not the refined gold) .  and thank you for the "off topic tip about the forums now i can thank people for their help and they get to know i said it.

@avc15 .  

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first make sure nothing is restricting it from going lower (it can't get near the condensation point of anything it's touching, so, no liquids, no gases that are near condensation points. This is why you fill the room with H2 and purge everything else - H2 has a very low condensation point. Its high thermal conductivity and heat capacity help, but the condensation point is the biggest thing for AETN since its cooling output is stated in DTU not degrees.

i'll make the floor under neath the thermal nullifier to mesh tile that way no condensation will be a problem.

Quote

 Now, if it's still stalled at -25C you have to cut down its cooling load. In your case that might mean throttling H2 flow through that radiator you've got.

i dont know if it 'stalled' at that temp but i think its i just been throwing 40-50*C heat in there and it making it hard for it too cool. but if it is stalled then how do i throttle the hydrogen? do i lower the amount of gas in the pipe or shorten the pipe? im not too sure what you mean by 'throttle' and that maybe because im a little thick in the head or that just dont quit understand the word. sorry. (all the pipes yellow pipes are made of wolfirmite)

Quote

- If you prefer not to throttle down H2 flow, add more cooling. Get H2 in that room to high pressure and put 12 wheezeworts in there next to it, to double the cooling capacity. But the H2 has to be at high pressure once you start using wheezeworts.

i most likely wont do this because i dont like to touch the weezworts, they are in the cold biomes to keep them cool is what i say each time i have taken them out of their biome, the biome ends up hot. but could i not over pressure the Hydrogen in the thermal nullifier room with out the weezworts?

 

 

[pacovf]

You can "throttle" the gas flow with a pressure valve. Just put one on the way, before the AETN room, and set the output pressure/mass to a lower number.

Wheezeworths cooling power depends on the pressure (and the type of gas) they are exposed to. They cool more when they are in a higher pressure environment, up to 2kg per tile, I think. AETNs always cool by the same amount, as long as you feed them hydrogen. If you don't want to use wheezeworths, you don't really need to increase the pressure of the room the AETN is in.

[avc15]

oh, here's something. You're still losing heat to the outside because of the mechanical airlocks. Simplest way for you to deal with that is to vacuum out that entry chamber. Just get it set how you want (then dupes will never go back in), and pump the entryway empty. Then that room becomes like a thermos for those two metal doors - the heat can't creep through.

That will get rid of the lion's share of insulating losses you still have. And lower the load your AETN is under.

3 hours ago, nameorgame said:

 

@avc15 .  

i'll make the floor under neath the thermal nullifier to mesh tile that way no condensation will be a problem.

It's more important to make sure there is *only* hydrogen in there (i.e. no CO2) because the AETN stalls if it gets anywhere near condensation point for anything it's near.

For instance, a pocket of one tile gaseous CO2 is floating around there - your AETN would never go below around -40C.

But you will know this is what's happening when you get a "too cold" message and the thing just stops. If that's not what you've got, it's a loading issue.

[nameorgame]

13 hours ago, avc15 said:

oh, here's something. You're still losing heat to the outside because of the mechanical airlocks. Simplest way for you to deal with that is to vacuum out that entry chamber. Just get it set how you want (then dupes will never go back in), and pump the entryway empty. Then that room becomes like a thermos for those two metal doors - the heat can't creep through.

That will get rid of the lion's share of insulating losses you still have. And lower the load your AETN is under.

It's more important to make sure there is *only* hydrogen in there (i.e. no CO2) because the AETN stalls if it gets anywhere near condensation point for anything it's near.

For instance, a pocket of one tile gaseous CO2 is floating around there - your AETN would never go below around -40C.

But you will know this is what's happening when you get a "too cold" message and the thing just stops. If that's not what you've got, it's a loading issue.

@avc15 thanks, for the information i'll get ride of the doors.  another thing, is there another way to most effectively cool down the cold biome?

[avc15]

"cooling down the cold biome" is kind of a fool's errand. The thing just has too much mass.

It's better to have some use in mind for all that cooling than to just store it indefinitely.

I know, I once tried to "heat up the lava biome", back before we had special materials for doing so. That was a failure.

[nameorgame]

38 minutes ago, avc15 said:

"cooling down the cold biome" is kind of a fool's errand. The thing just has too much mass.

It's better to have some use in mind for all that cooling than to just store it indefinitely.

I know, I once tried to "heat up the lava biome", back before we had special materials for doing so. That was a failure.

aw, okay. RIP cold biome.

[nameorgame]

should i move the petroleum loop by the thermal nullifier and move the hydrogen loop by to were the petroleum loop is. the petroleum going out a -30*C and is coming in at ~95 to 103*C and the hydrogen is  going out at -50*C and is coming in a about 30-40*C or should i use temp plates made of granite behind the petroleum loop.

 

and i plan to make a sleet-wheat farm under the nullifier.

 

[nameorgame]

@pacovf i come back to this every time and i keep sayting thanks out loud for it. THANK YOU 

 

On 21/11/2018 at 11:56 AM, pacovf said:

For your last question:

Specific heat capacity is how much "energy" you need to warm up some material by one degree (and, inversely, how much "energy" you need to take away to lower its temperature by one degree). It's kind of like an "inertia" for temperature.

Thermal conductivity is how fast a material changes temperature when exposed to a different temperature. You want a low thermal conductivity when you are trying to insulate two different areas, and high thermal conductivity when you want the two areas to have the same temperature.