Priority management

[martosss]

1. Let us manage the different categories of priorities
   • Having Harvest belong to both Supply and farm categories can cause suppliers to go back in order to deliver 10kg to some Mealwood ... We need to be able to choose whether that goes to farming or to supply or to both. Having "custom categories" similar to custom schedule will definitely help in that direction.
   • Life support category ... Why are Water sieves and deodorizers there, but Algae deoxydizers aren't? Or maybe they are, but we can't see it, because it's hidden due to space constraints? I can split this category into Oxygen generation + Water/algae/fertilizer generation. The point is - those groups of priorities are inconvenient in some cases.
2. Give us more options different than //\\ /\ - \/ \\//, similar to 1-9 for sub-priorities.
   • having only 5 levels of prioritization and 15 categories means that I must group at least 10 of the categories with others. I don't want to do that, since some dupes need to have a better differentiation of tasks.
     • example - 9 - toggle, 8 - care, 7 - art(for an artist), 6 - build(if he has high construction skill but lower dig/operate), 5 - dig/operate, 4 - supply, 3 - storage ... and I didn't even touch cook/research/life support/combat/farm/ranch... Do you see the problem? I already have 7 different prioriy levels, But I can only choose 5. Wrench is not desirable since I can't put it on toggle(and toggle should always be the highest). "X" can be counted as a separate level of prioritization(so that makes 6 of them together with up/down arrows  and "-"), but that's still not enough..
3. The priority / vitals / food windows all need an option to be resizable. When(and if) you reach something like 50-60 dupes it's a pain to change any of them(that is, if the lag doesn't kill you first). Even if you use less, the food window horizontal scrolling is awful, and hunting for that single ill dupe can be a pain. Maybe adding a quick search option on names would be cool(e.g. if my dupes are named a1,a2,a3,a4, when i type a1 i scroll down to the dupe starting with those letters). I understand that currently keyboard is reserved for commands, but having a search definitely helps in case of more dupes(maybe commands activate once you close the options window or the search activates only when you click a search field)..

[Mariilyn]

1. +1 for the non-specialized errands.

2. Not so sure... I would like to see an example of a case where it's useful to have more than 6 levels for priorities (don't forget the X). Jobs assigned to the same priority level will be sorted by sub-priorities. This way, if specialized workers are done with their primary job, they will simply execute the most urgent nearby job. Would you really take the time to assign a different priority level for each job, for each dupe ? It sounds way too much tedious and over-complicated for nothing ... (Its a detail but I also find that symbols are more visually appealing than numbers.)

3. +1 Ban All Scrolling... It's especially irritating when these window's size is so small.

[martosss]

25 minutes ago, Mariilyn said:

 

2. Not so sure... I would like to see an example of a case where it's useful to have more than 6 levels for priorities (don't forget the X). Jobs assigned to the same priority level will be sorted by sub-priorities. This way, if specialized workers are done with their primary job, they will simply execute the most urgent nearby job. Would you really take the time to assign a different priority level for each job, for each dupe ? It sounds way too much tedious and over-complicated for nothing ... (Its a detail but I also find that symbols are more visually appealing than numbers.)

I just gave you an example with an Artist. Here's another one:

I have dupes that are both farmer + rancher.

Again, starting from the most important withe highest number:

9: toggle(always toggle first, so when I toggle something and they're close - they do it!)

8.5: care - if that dupe has care skill, he will also care for ill friends - that way if someone passes out he'll go and rescue him first instead of grooming dreckos while his friend is scalding. If he doesn't have care, set care to X. For the sake of the argument, let's assume he doesn't have care, so care goes X

8: ranching - all ranch stuff is sub-prioritized(e.g. 9 for critter dropoff, 8 for sheering, 7 for grooming)

7. farming - this happens when all ranching is done

6. tidy / supply - after ranching and farming is done, he clears the debris and possibly sweeps eggs and stuff

5. build/dig - you don't want those on X, because he can get stuck somewhere and suffocate to death. You need to be able to dig/build(ladders), even with low priority

4. storage - low priority - store things if all farming/ranching/supplying is done

0 - combat - X, cook - X, art - X, (care possibly too)

 

So there you go, without caring, he still has 7 different priority levels.

Now consider digger/builder with different dig/build skill, which is usually the case - they'll have different priority for dig/build

9: toggle

8.5 care

8. build/dig

7. dig/build(what's missing in 8)

6. tidy / supply (for debris after digging/building)

5. operate - generate power/make suits/crush rocks when free

4. storage and everything else unimportant( which could be divided, but assume it's all here)

0 combat and all other useless stuff like farm/ranch, which does not count for builders/diggers

There you go, 7, and that's without counting care/art/cook/life support.

 

Should I continue? ... Researcher

9. toggle

8.5 care

8. Research

7. build/dig/operate(whichever is higher)

6. one of the remaining 2 from (7)

5. the last remaining one after 7 and 6

4. supply

3. storage

0... X

Those are even 8. Of course, you might consider merging some of them(5+6 or 3+4), but it's best if they're separated.

[Mariilyn]

But none of these example truly need more priority levels than the amount we currently have. Even if more priority levels were to be added, your dupes would never ever reach the least urgent levels of priority, so what's the point? Keep in mind that 5 levels of priority x 9 levels of sub-priority working in conjunction equal a total of 45 levels of priority overall (+ the X level). 

 

Here is an template for job priority management to help illustrate my point. 

//\\ Toggle and care

/\ Primary jobs that are done first

- Secondary jobs

\/ Default level 

\\// Jobs that are done last (dupes will most likely never reach this level of priority)

X  Forbidden jobs

 

The idea here is that dupes in a colony are specialized and their job assignments are balanced in order for everyone to have enough to do (primary & secondary jobs) to keep them occupied most of the time. If and only if they have free time, then they pick whatever less important nearby job is available. 

What's really important is to have at least one specialized high priority level worker for each profession, to insure that every urgent sub-priority errand is done quickly. Some workers are really busy, like builders/diggers, suppliers, ranchers, farmers, early game researchers, mid to late game operators... in my case these workers very rarely do something else. Artists and late-game researchers usually don't have much to do, so the priority level of these jobs are merged and the corresponding errands are given higher sub-priorities. Or they are given a more busier secondary job.

Since toggle and care errands are also kind of occasional, them needing their own priority level is somewhat debatable... I usually assign them on the //\\  level, same as the Primary job priority, without problem.

 

In your first example, ranching and farming are on two separate levels. Why doing that instead of merging these two jobs, or separating workers for the stables and the farms? If you have many stables, your ranchers will most likely barely have time to finish all grooming before the end of each cycle. Even if they complete all grooming and farming errands, they should not have the time to go past tidy/supply. And why the need for two level of priority for build/dig and storage since both are unimportant and as was said, dupes are unlikely to have time to get to these jobs? Priority levels could look like this : 

//\\ Toggle and care

/\ Primary job - Ranching

- Secondary job - Farming

\/ Default level - Tidy/supply/Operate? 

\\// Jobs that are done last  - Storage/Build/Dig/Combat

X  Forbidden jobs - Cook

 

Its the same thing for dig/build, if there is always something new to build, builders and diggers will not often have free time for other jobs (admittedly I also always merge dig & build too).

 

I guess it ultimately amount to a difference in playstyle, but I'm trying to understand the benefit of using so much different priority levels. It seems like too much micro and not that much efficient.

[Oozinator]

Prioritys are working fine for me.
Equipping suits is some sort of pain, but nothing else so far..
I would really hate, when Klei would change prio system again..

[martosss]

12 hours ago, Mariilyn said:

Since toggle and care errands are also kind of occasional, them needing their own priority level is somewhat debatable... I usually assign them on the //\\  level, same as the Primary job priority, without problem.

So imagine 2 guys are building ladders, 1 receives a heatstroke(ladders are next to a "cool" steam vent) and starts dying. Now what happens? The other has 2 possible jobs - build ladders or save his friend, both jobs with //\\ ... and if your ladders are set to 9 subpriority(because, as some people have it in their signature, 9 IS THE ONLY SUB PRIORITY ), then your dupe will be happily building ladders, the other dupes wll be happily ranching/farming/digging(as that is also merged with //\\?), so your dupe dies ... and you have ladders! Great! .... or not so great? On a bit more serious note regarding subpriorities, imagine those ladders are in an area that is more important than other areas(cool steam vent is errupting soon, so you have 1-2 cycles to fix it), so you set subpriority to 6. That should cause the same results - the building dupe disregarding the dying one.

That's why toggle(and possibly care) need to ALWAYS have their own priority level, higher than others. For me that's the real "life support" category, since we as the players, are the main life supporters and our orders usually come first. Of course you might have dupes that you want ONLY to research and not bother toggling ... then you disable/lower toggle for them. I think that toggling should be high for everyone, so that the closest free one does it - that should be the most efficient strategy.

12 hours ago, Mariilyn said:

In your first example, ranching and farming are on two separate levels. Why doing that instead of merging these two jobs, or separating workers for the stables and the farms? If you have many stables, your ranchers will most likely barely have time to finish all grooming before the end of each cycle. Even if they complete all grooming and farming errands, they should not have the time to go past tidy/supply. And why the need for two level of priority for build/dig and storage since both are unimportant and as was said, dupes are unlikely to have time to get to these jobs? Priority levels could look like this : 

//\\ Toggle and care

/\ Primary job - Ranching

- Secondary job - Farming

\/ Default level - Tidy/supply/Operate? 

\\// Jobs that are done last  - Storage/Build/Dig/Combat

X  Forbidden jobs - Cook

I'm not merging. Farmers and ranchers are staying (close to each other) in the middle of the base where the farms/ranches are. Sometimes they finish their work and need to do something else. Now a dupe is usually either a better rancher or a better farmer, so they should do their job first, hence the different priority levels - you don't want a rancher with 1 farming and 6 ranching skill to have the same priority for harvesting and grooming - that will cause him to go harvesting at some point. If you don't have enough critters to groom in one of your ranches(e.g. early on), or you have a new rancher(hence more people, so 1 of them will be free), there's gonna be 1 of them that needs to do something else. But their job should still come first => ranching 1st, farming 2nd.

Then when farms are in order(and that does happen, especially early on when you don't have that many plants, and even later - you don't need 100 farms, just enough to support dupes), I would like them first to go and make an atmo suit(I think that's counted as operate, right?) or generate power, and not go to the end of the base to sweep freshly dug out stuff. That's why Operate needs to be higher than supply/tidy. BTW supply includes construction deliver, so they might decide to go delivering some building material on the other side of the base because of it - that's why it needs to be lower than operate - so they choose operating first. Same for storage - I don't want them to store things, instead it's better if they construction-deliver and use those materials straight away. THEN, only after everything is built, should they store that stuff. That means supply(for construction/plants) goes first, then storage.

I still haven't completely figured disinfect and mop - I usually don't want them to disinfect, yet sometimes they are overly-hygienic. For now I put them in the middle somewhere and things tend to work themselves out. But having ranchers/farmers go and deliver construction ... that's usually gonna mean a long and unproductive trip.

So, that's pretty much my logic. Now regarding subpriorities, I think you can set different areas to different priorities(e.g. bristle berries are higher than mealwood, critter management needs 3-4 ...), but don't mix categories and depend on sub-priorities to discern between tasks - that will usually cause a mess at some point. And it should be the other way around - first prioritize things, then sub-prioritize, instead of mixing priorities and then separating them back using sub-priorities.

The same argument goes for digging / building - You need to separate it(as you said, to different people, right?). In the start you don't have people that can do both digging and building. That's why you need to tell them - if they're good at digging - dig first, otherwise for builders - build first. Then after 500 cycles, when you trained all dupes in everything, it probably won't matter much, because they're basically "robocops" - they can do everything very fast.