Repeated Food Type Penalty (it isnt real i was wrong)

[Electroely]

So a lot of people don't seem to know this, but there's a mechanic in the Gorge where if you feed two foods that satisfy a common craving consecutively, you'll receive less rewards from the Gnaw. 
Let's take Stone Soup and Potato Soup as an example, since anyone can try it fairly easily alone (assuming they don't get bread instead of vegetable for the second craving):
 

As seen in the official Recipe Book, both of these dishes make the Gnaw reward the player with 10 coins.

But what happens if you feed the Gnaw Potato Soup right after feeding it Stone Soup? Well, they're both considered a snack and a soup dish, which means that because of repeated food type penalty the second dish given will reward the player with less than 10 old coins. And surely enough, if you go in game and try this, this is what the result is:

 
 

Please keep this in mind when you're playing The Gorge. I've noticed a rumor going around that the reward is based on what the gnaw's current craving is. I have seen no proof of this happening, and all the situations presented by people who claim this turned out to just be the repeated food type penalty.

 

PS: Getting Bread as the 2nd craving is ALWAYS a bad thing because the repeated food type penalty ALWAYS applies because all the early bread foods are also snacks

 

[Extant]

First off, I'd like to thank you for your careful observations and effort put into figuring the game's mechanics out. Most people just play the game for themselves.

However, the truth is that the consecutive meal reducing rewards is the theory that is incorrect. The craving affecting the rewards is the truth.

If you'd like a concrete example to test out for yourself, try giving tomato soup/potato soup on round #5 right after dessert on a vegetable craving versus snack/soup cravings.

Since you always get dessert 100% of the time for round 4, and neither tomato soup nor potato soup count as dessert, you'll find that vegetable craving reduces the rewards gotten versus snack/soup.

If you'd also like additional evidence (as given unintentionally by a Klei developer), check this thread out.

#69 and #66 looted no Favor. Anyone else ran into that?

Quote

Hey guys, without giving away too much, I just wanted to point out that Wilson and Wickerbottom's food inspection perk was changed after beta to trigger automatically when they cook food, and they will give you hints on how well your dish matches the current craving.

 

[Electroely]

43 minutes ago, Extant said:

First off, I'd like to thank you for your careful observations and effort put into figuring the game's mechanics out. Most people just play the game for themselves.

However, the truth is that the consecutive meal reducing rewards is the theory that is incorrect. The craving affecting the rewards is the truth.

If you'd like a concrete example to test out for yourself, try giving tomato soup/potato soup on round #5 right after dessert on a vegetable craving versus snack/soup cravings.

Since you always get dessert 100% of the time for round 4, and neither tomato soup nor potato soup count as dessert, you'll find that vegetable craving reduces the rewards gotten versus snack/soup.

If you'd also like additional evidence (as given unintentionally by a Klei developer), check this thread out.

#69 and #66 looted no Favor. Anyone else ran into that?

 

I'll try it out. Thank you for showing me this info. 

Does that mean that the bread loaf doesn't satisfy the bread craving fully? I've gotten reduced rewards on the loaf of bread whenever I've given it on the 2nd craving (when it asks for bread).

Maybe both the repeated food type penalty and the craving reward effect both exist?

Spoiler

If not, then it's pretty odd that the food that's called the Loaf of Bread (Bread in the online recipe book) doesn't satisfy the craving included in it's name.

Further proof supporting my theory include:

A friend of mine tried playing the first 3 rounds of the game (snack, bread and meat) only using sliders and got 12, 9, 9 old coins as the reward for them

The client log announces the penalty when it applies, stating the repeated craving (although this could also support the other theory):

[00:18:37]: Appraised: quagmire_food_008 (snack penalty)	
[00:18:37]: Satisfied: veggie craving	
[00:18:37]:     Value: 8, 0, 0, 0 (silver=false max=true)

 

[Extant]

Yes, bread gives the maximum rewards on snack cravings, but not on bread cravings.

From my testings (and this is a huge generalization and not 100% true across the board), veggie, fish, meat, bread cravings tend to give lesser rewards if the meal can satisfy other cravings such as dessert, snack, soup. Those last 3 cravings usually give the best rewards.

Also, I'm actually in the midst of testing your theory out right now to figure out if it holds any merit or if it's of no value to the community.

You took my challenge to your theory much better than I was expecting, and I'd like to say that what both you and I are doing is nothing wrong. Just because someone proposes a supposed theory and it seems to hold ground, doesn't mean we shouldn't keep asking if that said theory is in fact, the truth.

It's only after we're 110% sure that the theory is the real deal that we can stop spending time on questioning it. As one of my professors once said, correlation does not equal causation.

[Electroely]

4 minutes ago, Extant said:

Yes, bread gives the maximum rewards on snack cravings, but not on bread cravings.

From my testings (and this is a huge generalization and not 100% true across the board), veggie, fish, meat, bread cravings tend to give lesser rewards if the meal can satisfy other cravings such as dessert, snack, soup. Those last 3 cravings usually give the best rewards.

Also, I'm actually in the midst of testing your theory out right now to figure out if it holds any merit or if it's of no value to the community.

You took my challenge to your theory much better than I was expecting, and I'd like to say that what both you and I are doing is nothing wrong. Just because someone proposes a supposed theory and it seems to hold ground, doesn't mean we shouldn't keep asking if that said theory is in fact, the truth.

It's only after we're 110% sure that the theory is the real deal that we can stop spending time on questioning it. As one of my professors once said, correlation does not equal causation.

Agreed. I'll see if i can get bread as a craving that isn't right after snack and see if my theory applies. (also note edit on first post)

[Extant]

24 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Agreed. I'll see if i can get bread as a craving that isn't right after snack and see if my theory applies. (also note edit on first post)

Good luck! So far, I've had to reset 3 runs due to unfortunate craving orders. I got my 1st test run done though.

So I made a Jelly Roll for #4 dessert (which in both my recipe book and the official Klei database is only valid as a dessert) and gave it to the altar. Afterwards, I made Tomato Soup (which counts as vegetable/soup/snack), and offered it with no silver bowl to The Gnaw while it was craving vegetable.

Since there was no connected food type, by your theory, I expected to get the full reward of 1 sapphire medallion and 8 old coins. However, I only got 11 old coins as a result. I already knew this before hand, but vegetable craving gives less rewards for tomato soup while both snack and soup cravings give the full amount.

I will give 1 more test run a shot to be absolutely sure. For this test run, I will attempt to make Fist Full of Jam for dessert #4 which counts as both a snack and a dessert. I will then force a snack craving for the 5th meal and give tomato soup for it. Since the previous round would have snack as an acceptable category, and tomato soup also counts as a snack, I'd expect to get less rewards.

I'll let you know how my 2nd test run goes when I get the cravings to comply.

Edit

Okay, so the 2nd test run was very lucky and I got it on the 1st attempt.

As I stated, I gave Fist Full of Jam for dessert #4, and then gave tomato soup without a silver bowl for a snack craving on #5. I got 1 sapphire medallion and 8 old coins as expected.

I uploaded an image of the data log as well, for your convenience.

[Electroely]

17 minutes ago, Extant said:

Good luck! So far, I've had to reset 3 runs due to unfortunate craving orders. I got my 1st test run done though.

So I made a Jelly Roll for #4 dessert (which in both my recipe book and the official Klei database is only valid as a dessert) and gave it to the altar. Afterwards, I made Tomato Soup (which counts as vegetable/soup/snack), and offered it with no silver bowl to The Gnaw while it was craving vegetable.

Since there was no connected food type, by your theory, I expected to get the full reward of 1 sapphire medallion and 8 old coins. However, I only got 11 old coins as a result. I already knew this before hand, but vegetable craving gives less rewards for tomato soup while both snack and soup cravings give the full amount.

I will give 1 more test run a shot to be absolutely sure. For this test run, I will attempt to make Fist Full of Jam for dessert #4 which counts as both a snack and a dessert. I will then force a snack craving for the 5th meal and give tomato soup for it. Since the previous round would have snack as an acceptable category, and tomato soup also counts as a snack, I'd expect to get less rewards.

I'll let you know how my 2nd test run goes when I get the cravings to comply.

Alright. I can't test any of this right now (since it's almost 3 hours past midnight and I'm too tired to grind to get the conditions I need)

I do thank you for telling me about this though. All the testing I did proved my theory to be correct, and after that I started further backing it with assumptions such as that Klei would want people to vary their food instead of constantly serve soup or snacks. I'm still baffled by the fact that the loaf of bread gives less rewards when given as bread than when given as a snack. It's such an odd thing, considering the gnaw specifically wanted "bread". I've heard of your theory from other people but never received evidence supporting it where my theory didn't apply.

Also, mind finding the part in your client log where you offered the tomato soup and got 11 coins? I'm curious as to what the penalty says (use CTRL+F in Notepad and search for "quagmire_food_026")

[Extant]

24 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Alright. I can't test any of this right now (since it's almost 3 hours past midnight and I'm too tired to grind to get the conditions I need)

I do thank you for telling me about this though. All the testing I did proved my theory to be correct, and after that I started further backing it with assumptions such as that Klei would want people to vary their food instead of constantly serve soup or snacks. I'm still baffled by the fact that the loaf of bread gives less rewards when given as bread than when given as a snack. It's such an odd thing, considering the gnaw specifically wanted "bread". I've heard of your theory from other people but never received evidence supporting it where my theory didn't apply.

Eh? Do people consider the cravings affecting the reward to be my theory? I'm sure I'm not the first person to have thought of this. In fact, I was confused as to why my rewards were different from the Klei database ones until someone pointed it out to me on the forums (back during the first few days of the official launch).

Yes, I agree that giving less rewards for bread on a 'bread' craving versus a 'snack' craving makes no logical sense at all either. I'm glad that you made this post though. I was 99% sure of the craving theory before, but now I am 100% certain.

I was feeling quite tired myself today but your thread gave me the extra energy I needed to play a bit more of The Gorge. I thank you for the work and excitement and I'm sure we're both of similar soul (scientists of the virtual realm!). I hope you can get some well-deserved rest.

Of course, you can definitely do some tests of your own to confirm it and you should. I know I'm trustworthy, but we're both strangers on the internet and should never take another person's word for face-value.

Have a good rest!

Edit

I unfortunately didn't get a screenshot of when the tomato soup gave me 11 coins, but I will do the run again with Jelly Roll for #4 dessert and tomato soup with no silver bowl for vegetable #5. It will take me a few runs though.

Edit #2

RNGesus blessed me for these last 2 runs. Here's the picture of the data log when I gave Jelly Roll for dessert #4 and tomato soup without a silver bowl for vegetable #5.

[Sm0k]

Check out this thread.  Whenever I serve sliders (worth 12c) on a bread round, they only give 9c due to them being classed a Snack as well.  In order to get full value the meal you serve can't be a "snack" for any of the other courses except soup possibly (not 100% sure never paid too much attention cause I usually bowl my first soups).

Quote

Course Penalties

(Snack penalty - serving a dish tagged with Snack in a Bread, Veggie, Fish, Meat, Cheese, or Pasta round applies a [coin value]*0.75+0.5 modifier.

AND

Non-Dessert Mismatch penalty - serving a non-Dessert dish outside of its respective round but not on Dessert applies a ([coin value]-5)*2/3 modifier.)

OR

Dessert Mismatch penalty - serving a dish tagged with Dessert that does not satisfy the current craving or a non-Dessert dish on Dessert round applies a [coin value]/3 modifier.

The value is rounded down to the nearest integer after all applicable penalties have been applied.