Vectrobe Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Literally all you have to do is apply the surface generation phase to the surface, with the existing neutronium as a mask. From what I can tell you already do this when generating the world in the upgrade, just not running it when an older world is loaded... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 As much as i would love retrofitting to be added implementing a feature like this would introduce new bugs and bind more resources. We are participating in an early access and it is part of the deal, that we have to start over every once in a while. At the end of the day the broad majority of us wants to see new features. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1040160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 19 hours ago, blash365 said: this would introduce new bugs and bind more resources. Considering the current worlds contain non-modifiable (excluding debug mode) neutronium on the surface, it's pretty much impossible to create a bug from replacing it with the new surface materials and vacuum... It also takes a couple minutes and a few lines of code to implement, assuming the new surface generation phase was implemented properly... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1040539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 29 minutes ago, Paul17041993 said: It also takes a couple minutes and a few lines of code to implement.. Programmers dream.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1040542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Oozinator said: Programmers dream.. I am a programmer, and I have done world gen code, albeit 3D... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1040584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Then apply for a position at klei. Their page states they are always searching. Giving your statements here, you seem to be their dream candidate. I am a programmer as well and so far most of the problems that i imagined to be "fixable in a few lines of code" have turned out to be rather work (and test) intensive. So i usually try not to make this kind of statement anymore. It just makes you seem pretty pretentious when reality catches up on you. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1040588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 47 minutes ago, blash365 said: It just makes you seem pretty pretentious when reality catches up on you. ^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1040600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibayzone Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 How hard is it to gen a new world, then copy the bottom 4/5 or so of the old over in debug mode? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1041121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 5 hours ago, calibayzone said: How hard is it to gen a new world, then copy the bottom 4/5 or so of the old over in debug mode? Why on earth would you do that...? just paint the neutronium on the surface, or remove it entirely and do without the new materials... Also, are you guy's actually able to provide example bugs that could occur with simply replacing an invincible filler tile, in a place that cant be affected by other tiles? you seem to have an attitude of "let's not fix bugs and flaws as to not create new ones", which is really bad and what can ultimately kill the development of this already-fragile game... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1041259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 18 hours ago, Paul17041993 said: Also, are you guy's actually able to provide example bugs that could occur with simply replacing an invincible filler tile, in a place that cant be affected by other tiles? You can do it, look for POI errors.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1041560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 20 hours ago, Paul17041993 said: you seem to have an attitude of "let's not fix bugs and flaws as to not create new ones", which is really bad and what can ultimately kill the development of this already-fragile game... You didn't get the point. The problem with this feature is that it is only applicable in a few edge cases: there is a new patch the patch has to change a map generator aspect the player has an old savegame the player does not want to start over This might be a frequent scenario (once per player (if not 4.) per 6 weeks (if 2.)) in the current early access phase, but the game will be finished at some point at which time the feature would be completely obsolete. So klei would have to invest alot of time to implement this "one-liner". There would surely be some implications (did you notice all the crashes because of meteors reacting strangely at the edge of the map? this is the kind of bug, that you might not always have on your radar (pun intended)). And for those implications bug fixes will consume additional time. Alot of wasted development time with only a short-term benefit for a fraction of the playerbase. And to top it all off, there is already a sandbox mode, which allows players to "patch" some changes into their existing bases. It could most certainly be extended to add some of the cosmic stuff as well. And it would even make sense, because you can ALWAYS use the sandbox mode, if you choose. And EVERYBODY can use it. It is a long-term feature which benefits the entire playerbase no matter if there are patch releases or not. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1041639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 hours ago, blash365 said: You didn't get the point. The problem with this feature is that it is only applicable in a few edge cases That damages player retention... These things add up aggressively in the game development space, particularly with the dozens of other bugs that gives the player frustration. If the devs fail to address all these issues they can potentially kill the retention completely, which is pretty disastrous especially with the Australian market for example as players have the right to a full refund, regardless of the total play time. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1041687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 within 30 days? I mean there has to be a reasonable limit. Otherwise you all just buy the games knowing your gonna get your refund once its beaten. May as well be pirating them with that mentality. Can you also request refunds on movies you watched? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1041721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 On 05/06/2018 at 12:24 PM, Kabrute said: I mean there has to be a reasonable limit. Can you also request refunds on movies you watched? No defined limit, other than that of a complete liquidation of the company and retailers, and yes the law applies to movies. If you wish you can read the details here;https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guaranteeshttps://store.steampowered.com/consumer_rights_notice/ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 guarantees that they will work and do what you asked for. Yeah EXCEPT Consumer guarantees do not apply if you: got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it misused a product in any way that caused the problem knew of or were made aware of the faults before you bought the product asked for a service to be done in a certain way against the advice of the business or were unclear about what you wanted and your entire premise falls under the first bullet point and third bullet point so you are actually not due any refund beyond this point because your requests may fall under the fourth point....... Also with regards to pc games in general you purchased a Goods, as is, subject to change, NOT a service Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 I wasn't applying this to me anyway, however, point 1 does not apply as it's not at all a "changed my mind" condition, you may want to read the whole topic before making assumptions... Point 3 does not apply either (and you can hold this up in a court), as the developers have not actively advertised the specific bugs at any given point in time, nor do they seem to actively comment on reported bugs... Point 4 also does not apply, and there's almost no case where this can apply to games, unless it were something along the lines of implementing a major security flaw or world corrupter on purpose, and the player actively used it with knowledge of the potential result. Again, not applying it to myself, I have no intention of refunding the game. This was only brought up as a note of the importance of UE in game development, regardless of it being in early access or not, inadequate UE can kill the project entirely and put the business in strife. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 47 minutes ago, Kabrute said: decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it 47 minutes ago, Kabrute said: knew of or were made aware of the faults before you bought the product Open beta is a state inclusive of bugs by definition and is an applicable defensable label against lemon laws hence my original "as is" declaration. This leaves only point number 4, you refunding the game because you didn't get the changes you want(You requesting a change to the game is requesting the service of altering code etc). Here I agree with you, games are not services hence why your request falls under number 4 but for this reason ceases to apply as an arguable cause. Your argument of putting the business in strife would only apply to a small developer over whom some such leverage may be applicable, that isn't the case here. Klei has a multinational sales platform. UE?? please define? I think you are reaching for problems that will likely never exist for this company. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kabrute said: UE?? please define? User Experience. By the way have you heard of THQ and Blue Tongue Entertainment? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I thought that might be it but wasn't sure. Yes to THQ no to BTE, did they have games get destroyed in beta because the player base stopped liking the game during development? nvm, they released 2 games, got bought by thq, made one more then got shuffled out of existence, how is this applicable? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Kabrute said: Your argument of putting the business in strife would only apply to a small developer over whom some such leverage may be applicable THQ liquidated in 2013, with a grand total of 20 subsidiaries dissolved, only 8 others were saved through sell-off's. No one is immune to bankruptcy, which is why developers need to be careful with how they experiment with their products. Also, the idea of early access is to help pay off the debt (whether it be internal or outsourced to a bank or other funding method) of development, while it's still being developed. The act of the game being shaped by feedback only applies if the developers actively take in the feedback and remain active within the community. btw ONI's not in a state ready for beta just yet, it's alpha at best... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 right and one of those former employees of THQ founded Klei so I think they probably have an inside heads up on how to avoid that same fate, am I right? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Just now, Paul17041993 said: No one is immune to bankruptcy, which is why developers need to be careful with how they experiment with their products. Nice that you care about Kleis jobs, but Klei has one outstanding thing. Interaction/communication with fanbase.. Even when i personal don't like some ONI changes, because they "ruin" my "most loved game ever" feeling with it a bit, it was worth every cent. The refund policy on steam doesn't impact indie games, or big companys much. There are some active discussions, in game dev forums (like UE4/Unity) about that, with statistics and stuff. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, Oozinator said: Interaction/communication with fanbase.. so... where are they...? why have I never gotten a response from any of my reports...? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Paul17041993 said: so... where are they...? why have I never gotten a response from any of my reports...? ^^ They interact for sure. Some sort of interaction is, to fix bugs, when they are reported. They could spend some time on discussions with users, but that's always a doublesided sword, when users take it negative. Users like @Kabrute stay neutral and don't whine and *zazooosch* they communicate nice together. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectrobe Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 who's whining...? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/91256-cosmic-upgrade-add-surface-retrogen-to-old-worlds/#findComment-1042304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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