Would appreciate an explanation on high thermal conductivity

[Jofe]

I haven't played in a while and noticed these "new" high conductivity cables. I researched them pretty much out of curiosity because I figured out that they would need a more advanced resource that I can't get efficiently yet (and I was right :P). Anyway I checked what characteristics each material had and saw that all of them have "high thermal conductivity" and even with the in-game explanation I still don't get the concept. Does it mean that it either heats or cools depending on what is around it? Like if there's something very hot they will heat and if it's very cold it will cool down?

Thanks for any help you can give me

PS: While we're at that I could use a clarification on thermally reactive. While I get the raise in temperature part I'm not really sure about the cooling down. Does this mean that in the absence of heat the material drops quickly in temperature?

[The Arcanian]

The stats that those traits are derived from are "Thermal Conductivity" and "Specific Heat Capacity", something that all materials have.

Thermal Conductivity is how fast heat energy transfers through a material. When determining the rate between two different materials the lower thermal conductivity of the two materials is used.

Specific Heat Capacity is how much heat energy a material can hold before changing temperature. Thermally Reactive means that is has a low specific heat capacity.

 

[storm6436]

Yep.  Suppose that you have two substances sitting next to each other in direct contact, both have 10kg of mass, one has a thermal conductivity of 1 J/s, the other 2J/s.  Mass 1 contains 100 J worth of energy, mass 2 contains only 10 J.  Energy will transfer at the slowest thermal conductivity, so mass 1 will lose 1 joule every second to mass 2 until they contain the same amount of energy, eventually arriving at 55 J for each provided both have the same heat capacity.

 What are their temperatures?  Depends on their specific heat capacity.  If mass 1 has a specific heat capacity of 1 J*Kg/K and mass 2 has 2 J*kg/K, then the equilibrium point is not 55J, but roughly 33.6 J in mass 1 and 73.4 J in mass 2, leaving both at 36.6 K, or a nice and very frosty -236.55 C or -393.79 F.  Roughly the temperature of my ex's heart.

[The Arcanian]

I was trying to avoid numbers unless the OP asked for more clarification, math makes some people skittish.

[clickrush]

What a lot of new players don't seem to grasp is that heat is energy as @The Arcanian and @storm6436 explained. If you really want to understand thermal properties then just do calculations based on that knowledge. Keep in mind that the heat output of buildings is 200x higher than displayed, which is also true for the nullifier. But I can give you some practical orientation:

You don't need to care much about thermal conductivity (not to be mistaken with electrical conductivity) during gameplay. If you want to speed up or slow down heat exchange then just keep in mind that the material with the lowest conductivity is always the bottleneck.

In regards to heat capacity it gets a bit more complex. If you choose a coolant you generally want high capacity to save power. For gases this is hydrogen and for liquids polluted water or water if you don't want to deal with sublimination. If you need a wider liquid state range you can also use petroleum or oil as a coolant.

Heat capacity also plays a role in thermal stability of a system. If you are dealing with medium to low temperatures then iron ore is a good material for heat producing buildings such as power generators. With high amounts of heat you want Gold Amalgam because of its high overheat temperature. Wolframite is best used in systems that need to stay at a very narrow temperature range, because it will dissipate its heat very quickly. Tempshift plates have a lot of mass so they can stabilize temperature in combination with high capacity materials. For insulation you go for high capacity alongside low conductivity.

[storm6436]

38 minutes ago, The Arcanian said:

I was trying to avoid numbers unless the OP asked for more clarification, math makes some people skittish.

 Sorry.  I'm a physicist by training.  Quantitative analysis always follows qualitative in instruction for those who desire precision..   Force of habit.

[Jofe]

57 minutes ago, storm6436 said:

Yep.  Suppose that you have two substances sitting next to each other in direct contact, both have 10kg of mass, one has a thermal conductivity of 1 J/s, the other 2J/s.  Mass 1 contains 100 J worth of energy, mass 2 contains only 10 J.  Energy will transfer at the slowest thermal conductivity, so mass 1 will lose 1 joule every second to mass 2 until they contain the same amount of energy, eventually arriving at 55 J for each provided both have the same heat capacity.

 What are their temperatures?  Depends on their specific heat capacity.  If mass 1 has a specific heat capacity of 1 J*Kg/K and mass 2 has 2 J*kg/K, then the equilibrium point is not 55J, but roughly 33.6 J in mass 1 and 73.4 J in mass 2, leaving both at 36.6 K, or a nice and very frosty -236.55 C or -393.79 F.  Roughly the temperature of my ex's heart.

So leaving numbers aside, in this case, the wire will either heat or cool to a point depending on what's around it and sit at that temperature?

[The Arcanian]

3 minutes ago, clickrush said:

What a lot of new players don't seem to grasp is that heat is energy as @The Arcanian and @storm6436 explained. If you really want to understand thermal properties then just do calculations based on that knowledge. Keep in mind that the heat output of buildings is 200x higher than displayed, which is also true for the nullifier. But I can give you some practical orientation:

You don't need to care much about thermal conductivity (not to be mistaken with electrical conductivity) during gameplay. If you want to speed up or slow down heat exchange then just keep in mind that the material with the lowest conductivity is always the bottleneck.

In regards to heat capacity it gets a bit more complex. If you choose a coolant you generally want high capacity to save power. For gases this is hydrogen and for liquids polluted water or water if you don't want to deal with sublimination. If you need a wider liquid state range you can also use petroleum or oil as a coolant.

Heat capacity also plays a role in thermal stability of a system. If you are dealing with medium to low temperatures then iron ore is a good material for heat producing buildings such as power generators. With high amounts of heat you want Gold Amalgam because of its high overheat temperature. Wolframite is best used in systems that need to stay at a very narrow temperature range, because it will dissipate its heat very quickly. Tempshift plates have a lot of mass so they can stabilize temperature in combination with high capacity materials. For insulation you go for high capacity alongside low conductivity.

I have read that 200x output thing before. Is it just a UI thing that they have not gotten around to fixing? Becuase that really messes with someones ability to plan builds if they do not know of it. It is a good thing I was using more wheezewarts than I thought I needed for my battery/transformer room, I am actually only using one more than needed...

2 minutes ago, storm6436 said:

 Sorry.  I'm a physicist by training.  Quantitative analysis always follows qualitative in instruction for those who desire precision..

All good dude, I'm a programmer, I understand. I just try to ease people into things so as to not overwhelm them.

[storm6436]

15 minutes ago, Jofe said:

So leaving numbers aside, in this case, the wire will either heat or cool to a point depending on what's around it and sit at that temperature?

Presuming it isn't generating heat of its own, yes.  I'm fairly certain they're not modeling heat generation from electrical resistance in wiring at the moment.

[Jofe]

2 hours ago, storm6436 said:

Presuming it isn't generating heat of its own, yes.  I'm fairly certain they're not modeling heat generation from electrical resistance in wiring at the moment.

So at the moment is kinda safe replacing the cables while I don't have an air conditioning system then? No worries that it will heat (more) my base?

3 hours ago, clickrush said:

What a lot of new players don't seem to grasp is that heat is energy as @The Arcanian and @storm6436 explained. If you really want to understand thermal properties then just do calculations based on that knowledge. Keep in mind that the heat output of buildings is 200x higher than displayed, which is also true for the nullifier. But I can give you some practical orientation:

You don't need to care much about thermal conductivity (not to be mistaken with electrical conductivity) during gameplay. If you want to speed up or slow down heat exchange then just keep in mind that the material with the lowest conductivity is always the bottleneck.

In regards to heat capacity it gets a bit more complex. If you choose a coolant you generally want high capacity to save power. For gases this is hydrogen and for liquids polluted water or water if you don't want to deal with sublimination. If you need a wider liquid state range you can also use petroleum or oil as a coolant.

Heat capacity also plays a role in thermal stability of a system. If you are dealing with medium to low temperatures then iron ore is a good material for heat producing buildings such as power generators. With high amounts of heat you want Gold Amalgam because of its high overheat temperature. Wolframite is best used in systems that need to stay at a very narrow temperature range, because it will dissipate its heat very quickly. Tempshift plates have a lot of mass so they can stabilize temperature in combination with high capacity materials. For insulation you go for high capacity alongside low conductivity.

I kinda see it, haven't used petroleum yet. I've seen it, but always something happens that makes me start over again before I'm able to reach it. While on that topic, how does the cooling part work? Does petroleum lose heat fast or something? Because when I've seen it it has a kinda high temperature, or is this related to the "waterfall" (not sure if that's the official name" cooling?

[Kabrute]

It has large temperature range, highest conductivity of liquids and very cold freeze point giving it a very wide range of applications in controlling or trading temps, unrelated to bugs

[storm6436]

30 minutes ago, Jofe said:

So at the moment is kinda safe replacing the cables while I don't have an air conditioning system then? No worries that it will heat (more) my base?

I kinda see it, haven't used petroleum yet. I've seen it, but always something happens that makes me start over again before I'm able to reach it. While on that topic, how does the cooling part work? Does petroleum lose heat fast or something? Because when I've seen it it has a kinda high temperature, or is this related to the "waterfall" (not sure if that's the official name" cooling?

That's my understanding yes.  Basically:
1. The wiring itself doesn't generate it's own new heat based off the current running through it.
*BUT*
2. The gold/iron/etc you're creating the wiring from does come with its own temp, so if the gold is warmer than the rest of your base, it will transfer that higher energy into the air and solids around it....  On the other hand, if it's actually colder than the rest of your base, it will chill things as well.   Though, given the mass of the metal involved, I would not expect this to be a very significant effect per tile of wire employed. 

This is also why if you're worried about temps in your starting area, *never* assign igneous rock storage to storage containers inside your starting base...  after all, if you do, that means you'll be bringing all that hot rock into your base where it will warm your containers which will, in turn, warm your base.  Once you get an A/C plant built this becomes less of an issue, but it's something a good chunk of people might miss.

[Jofe]

1 hour ago, storm6436 said:

This is also why if you're worried about temps in your starting area, *never* assign igneous rock storage to storage containers inside your starting base...  after all, if you do, that means you'll be bringing all that hot rock into your base where it will warm your containers which will, in turn, warm your base.  Once you get an A/C plant built this becomes less of an issue, but it's something a good chunk of people might miss.

Never thought of that. The only things that I don't store in my base are those that emit something (bleach emitting chlorine, polluted dirt/slime emitting polluted oxygen), it didn't occur me that stored materials could also heat up the rest of my base.

[storm6436]

Sounds like it's a good thing I pointed it out then given that storage containers fit quite a bit of mass in them.  For the others?  I keep a single storage container in a 2 block high, 1 block wide room sealed behind a mechanized door for bleach stone.  Polluted dirt, I don't mind.  I have a room with 1 container and 2-3 compost piles with a deodorizer  between them and the door out.  Slime stays on-site wherever I'm clearing and is pulled through a train of 12+ ore cleaners (which might seem overkill, but 12 with a hand sanitizer before and 2 after the ore clearners makes it highly unlikely I'll get slimelung outside the clearing zone regardless of the number of folks I have allocated to clearing.