# Battery storage - kilowatt-seconds rather than joules.

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As much as I like the little J symbol next to batteries, Watt-seconds or kilowatt seconds makes more sense in gameplay mechanics and is generally a more descriptive relational mechanism.Kilowatt seconds makes more sense time wise. Everyone familiar with electricity knows that one joule is equal to one watt. Having a battery that stores 10 thousand kilojoules means you applied 10,000 watts to the battery, you have 10,000 watts at your disposal for one second or 5k for 2 seconds, and so on. This relationship between Joules and Watts isn't described in the game. We have a foreshortened electrical system which only describes power generation and use in terms of Watts.

There are currently two interactive references to joules: battery storage and specific heat capacity - these two aren't related in any way in the current electrical implementation. Heat output is being described in watts, its effects are being measured in joules through a relational issue with specific heat capacity.

Denoting the capacity as watt-seconds gives it a better correlation of available wattage to draw from.

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53 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

This relationship between Joules and Watts isn't described in the game

600 second per cycles is not describe in game, that more important  matter

i guess decision they using joules because we dont using same time as real world where 1 hours = 3600 sec
where is Batteries in real world are specced in Amp-Hours(at least in my country), Ah is a quantity indicating the amount of energy stored in the battery. example Alkaline capacity is ~2800 mAh
there maybe various reason, simplify that calculation is more appeal for most player to understand, and more easier to code in game than using watt-hour, Ampere, Volt, Coulomb

so if you want make battery storage using watt/second,  its like asking speed in vehicles where measure using km/h changed to m/s
since watt is for power or like horse power , how much they can deliver
its much simpler used Joules for energy, like batteries holding how many energy

same like food energy measure with calories, i guess its standart metric system

if we measure batteries using watt/second since power consumption is hard to determine because they change each time, same like express how much energy a battery can deliver (watt) instead of how much electrical charge it can store (joules)
just my opinion, cmiiw

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34 minutes ago, Botaxalim said:

i guess decision they using joules because we dont using same time as real world where 1 hours = 3600 sec
where is Batteries in real world are specced in Amp-Hours(at least in my country), Ah is a quantity indicating the amount of energy stored in the battery. example Alkaline capacity is ~2800 mAh
there maybe various reason, simplify that calculation is more appeal for most player to understand, and more easier to code in game than using watt-hour, Ampere, Volt, Coulomb

1 Joule = 1 Watt second, no need to redefine it in terms of energy on account of the variability in time scales between the two because no voltage is inferred in the system.

Denoting battery storage capacity in amp hours or milliamp hours is somewhat deceptive practice, but really only has any significance to electrical engineers. A 1.2volt AA battery with a storage of 2500mAh, has less energy in it that a 3.2volt cell phone battery with 2500mAh - simply on account of the voltage being higher - one could derive the amount of coulombs given the information, and thus joules available;  With us not having any voltage to reference - assuming it's 1, we don't have to worry with volts, coulombs, etc.

1 watt produced is equal to one watt second. 10 Kilowatt-seconds is the same as 10 KJ, it performs no differently. The thing about batteries in this 1 volt configuration we have, is that that they can produce far more simultaneous watts to power machines.

Denoting the capacity as watt seconds gives it a better correlation of available wattage to draw from.

Obviously J=W, and so on, this isn't described.

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I'll have to go against this, if not for obscurity alone. Joules give you the total amount of energy regardless of situation; I don't see how changing the unit to watt-seconds would help at anything. If a player is to use this information for their won calculations, they are eventually going to have to know the relationship between energy and power anyway.

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I definitely agree they should not use "J". I would prefer they use "W/c" which is Watt per cycle. This information is way more useful at a glance than "J"

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8 hours ago, Afro69 said:

I definitely agree they should not use "J". I would prefer they use "W/c" which is Watt per cycle. This information is way more useful at a glance than "J"

I have a tendency to agree - having battery storage being in joules is out of character with how the electrical system is described. It's the only thing in the electrical system using joules.

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I'm okay with people having to learn some elementary electricity to play the game. 1 W = 1 J/s and there are 10 minutes (600s) per cycle. Bam, with these 2 simple facts you can now calculate anything you need for modelling your system's demands.

Furthermore, it's worth noting that joules really are relevant in this game. You act like they're not because of how often the language appears (batteries and specific heat capacity), but that's oversimplifying IMO. The reason thinking in joules matters is because machinery consume joules, and if they're not running constantly then only thinking about them in watts is going to cause you to overestimate your energy demands, potentially by a large amount (doors, machines that are dupe operated during day only, anything controlled by hydro/atmo/thermo switches, etc.) Batteries showing KJ is much more relevant and accurate to me than trying to describe everything in watt-seconds, though they are technically the same thing.

Ultimately though, I think it comes down to personal preference since there is no real difference between watt-seconds and joules, so I think having a units option for it is perfectly reasonable for players to choose for themselves (like degrees in K vs C vs F).

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1 hour ago, Byste said:

The reason thinking in joules matters is because machinery consume joules, and if they're not running constantly then only thinking about them in watts is going to cause you to overestimate your energy demands, potentially by a large amount (doors, machines that are dupe operated during day only, anything controlled by hydro/atmo/thermo switches, etc.) Batteries showing KJ is much more relevant and accurate to me than trying to describe everything in watt-seconds, though they are technically the same thing.

I am not really for changing things or against, for that matter. But machines are universally described in terms of wattage consumed and output in wattage produced. You can also think about partial consumption in terms of wattage. For example, if you have a liquid pump which must pump through a valve set at 1kg. You can estimate that pump's over all energy expenditure at 24watts. In terms of batteries it probably doesn't matter to your average player. I think watt seconds would probably be more descriptive to them, but I think the quantity a battery holds probably doesn't matter unless they're also interested in learning what a joule was anyway. How much does a battery hold? Not enough, build more.

Though, I definitely think that since cycle is used as a measure meant of time along side second. Then cycle should definitely be defined in game. Maybe as a mouse-over tool tip over the asteroid clock. And if using joules, then that should be defined as well.