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DST Exclusive Features- Within Reaso

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Disclaimer- I have very little programming background, so I will offer feedback and advice based on how well it will affect the game and not based on how feasible the changes might be. I understand some of these opinions may seem mechanically laughable when you think about how to implement them.


   So, on to the point of this topic. First off, I have noticed slight differences in DST that I have not observed in the original DS that I have taken to calling "exclusive features." Now, these aren't super cool craftable items, biomes, or anything that has a place in single player that some one would begrudgingly be deprived of in DS orignal, but more like necessary mechanical changes in the gameplay that makes sense given the number of players. Simple examples include things as tangible as the telltale heart to things more abstract as the number of hounds during hound attacks. These features are necessary additions to accommodate the number of players while maintaining the game's level of difficulty, and I would like to see more of it.



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   Well, I accidentally posted before completing the post, and now I can't seem to figure out how to edit the post, so I guess Ill continue here.


   Anyways, here is a list of changes already implemented that I have noticed that fits the description above. The problem is that they aren't enough of the changes, at least in my opinion, to keep the game difficult.


   Koalephant tracks- I have noticed that koalephant tracks spawn more frequently by default in DST. With how many mouths to feed as there can be in DST it makes sense to have more tracks for a steady meat supply, but it seems overkill. Maybe this problem will correct itself in later updates when some tracks can lead to Wargs.


Spider Dens- It's been a while since I've played DS original, but I vaguely remember farming unreal amounts of spider silk by happily hacking away at lvl 1,2, and 3 spider dens without much fear. This was mostly due to the fact that you could prevent warrior spiders from spawning by kiting spiders away from the den and depleting the den's reinforcements. I was surprised and delighted to find this did not work out nearly as well in DST as a friend and I killed the last spider only to attack a lvl 3 den and it still spawned 2 warrior spiders. This might be a bug, but its a welcome addition since it adds more challenge to farming silk that might be unwarranted in single player, but easily dealt with in DST.


Hound Attacks- Hound attacks are now beyond chaotic and I love it. Indeed, I almost cried when Bomber and I dealt with our first hound attack with grass suits and axes with very little punishment and all we did was tank the bites and focused targets. It was a breath of fresh air to see that hound attacks quickly escalated to 10-20 seasonal (fire and ice)hound zerging by the 3rd or 4th attack. Now don't get me wrong, I don't wont them made impossible to handle, but log suits + spears are hard to die with and these hound attacks put this to the test.


   That's all I have observed for now, but these are pretty descriptive of what I would like to see in the future. Current game content scaled up to account for the number of players. I know there is an option menu to make the world unforgiving and tentacle infested, but those aren't the changes I am looking for. I am looking for mechanical game play changes that make things that were challenging in single player, just as challenging with 6X as many people. Like maybe, while fighting a spider queen she consistently spawns 2-5 warrior spiders depending on the number of players instead of 1 normal spider or warrior spider.


   I'm interesting in hearing more ideas from you guys, because nothing immediately comes to mind.


EDIT: Here are thoughts or ideas that were made in replies after initial posting. Thanks for the enthusiasm! At the very least, the following list will be a fun collection of impossibilities.


Submitted by Resumptus : Spider Queen- Incorporate a ranged attack that would spawn temporary webbing, similar to that of the webbing around nests, that slow player movement speed.


Spider Queen- Spawn more warrior spiders scaling with the number of players nearby/on the server.


Guardian- Incorporate tremors during the encounter that would spawn falling debris hazards similar to the underground earthquakes that already occur.


Dragonfly- incorporate fire pillars during its AoE that players will have to avoid.

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Oh good I'm glad you continued here, i was confused by the lack of info in the initial post =) Oh, and you can't edit your posts until you have 5 on the forums already.


Regarding Koalefant Tracks - they do have a chance to spawn Vargs, as well as a new beast that is DST-specific.


In all honesty, I haven't thought much about how I want the game enhanced at this point. Since we're still in beta, changes are happening pretty consistently... including the ramp-up of hounds that you noticed. A month ago, that wasn't in the game. I'm waiting for more RoG features, plus DST-exclusive content like Through The Ages. Once we have all those available to understand and manage as a team, I feel like I'll be in a better position to offer feedback and suggestions for new content.

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   Ah, good. I guess I'll take this opportunity to rack up some more posts then. As for the fickle nature of a beta, I understand that changes are occurring rapidly, but that's all the more reason to address the issues now before they come up with mundane solutions.


   Here's a scenario that I am afraid might happen, and I'll use my spider queen idea as an example: "Spider queen confrontations are no longer challenging and and might as well be a silk covered tree for the player to chop down as part of their daily resource grind for how forgiving the encounter is with 6 players all attacking the spider queen with tentacle spikes and marble suits. To address this issue, we made the spider queen capable of 2-shoting players and made it twice as much of a bullet sponge than a Bearger." - Klei hotfix date: [fill in the blank]


   Case in point, mechanical changes to ramp up difficulty are more artistic and fun than just scaling health and damage. It's the difference between heroic modes in World of Warcraft which add mechanics that offer difficulty and unique gameplay vs heroic modes in Destiny which add health and damage that offer monotonous and drawn out gameplay. Under the assumption that changes to current content are made to account for more players, I would prefer that these changes are made mechanically.


   Currently I have noticed that health(I haven't noticed damage) have been slightly ramped up on medium mobs such as hounds and warrior spiders. I might be making that up, but it feels like they take longer to die. It's fine at the moment, but I would hate to see these integers further scaled up and presented as solutions to difficulty curve problems in the future.

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They did decrease player damage - so tanking a mob by yourself in DST isn't the same as singleplayer. And yup, as you noticed, some of our favorite beasts have more HP. There have been a couple tweaks so far that account for the amount of players, but not everything - so far I've only seen it with things that come in timed intervals, like the hounds or notification of Deerclops spawning (the Deerclops thing is a bug though). I think they're trying to create a balance between the two, "difficult" and "drawn out", to encouraging teamwork to conquer the environment rather than everyone going off on their own with rogue fighting and leveling up/down abilities.


What are some of the things you've seen in WoW that you think might be able to be applied in DST in some form? I don't play WoW so I really have no idea.

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@malachaithemalicious, I don't think koalefant tracks spawn more, but they do spawn per-player. Since you're often crossing back and forth, you're more likely to see them. However, I agree that it feels like too much, and there's room for koalefants to scale less with the number of players than they currently do. It feels pretty appropriate with just two players in a game, but have 6 and there's koalefants everywhere.


I think the only change to spider dens was that if you have more people nearby and attack the den/hit a spider too close, more spiders will come out of it.


I agree the spider queen could use a little more oomph. I'd like to see an extra ranged web attack that slows in an area or something. I think stuff is planned for her, though, but right now she's just got a health buff.


As for additional rebalancing... hmm. I feel like this has touched on most of the threats that can be scaled like this. Until we get to caves/adventure mode, I'm not sure there's much left to rebalance.

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   Ya, I did notice things take longer to spawn. Which is good because the last few times we got attacked by hounds and deerclops's we were in disarray farming supplies. Given time to regroup and suit up was godsend.


   As for WoW, my point of bring it up was to prove that they are more fun ways to make a game difficult than mindlessly scaling up modifiers. Wow is radically different in terms of combat because of the introduction of agro and support roles(healers), but if there was a single applicable scenario in Dont Starve that can be improved with WoW's gameplay it would be the Dragonfly. It is by far the hardest mob in the game(with the possible exception of the Guardian, but not really) mostly due to its movement speed and devastating AoE attack.


   The AoE itself makes the boss near impossible to deal with in melee combat so you mostly have to resort to using darts, bells, pan flutes, and/or gunpowder. I have yet to see how it would size up in multiplayer, but rather than making the AoE hurt more I would advise making the AoE spawn pillars of fire arbitrarily in a range around the Dragonfly so you would have to react and dodge them accordingly each time. It would also keep everyone not currently attacking the dragonfly to stay on their toes. In terms of WoW mechanics, I think this concept is called "hazards", where you can avoid them to make you life easier.


   Now that you got me thinking about it, the guardian might be a bit of a pushover too with multiple people. Maybe a mechanic could be added where if it fails to ram into a target, it gets angry and starts stomping on the ground causing a earthquake similar to the ones that already occur in caves so now everyone is dodging rocks while fighting it.


   Just simple little additions that would ramp up difficulty and still keep things interesting; interesting being the key word. This will all probably fall on deaf ears so allow me to get carried away with my outlandish ideas.  :joyous:

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