Suggestions and hopefully, discussions!

[Dom-Sithe]

Hello Everyone!

I just wanted to start by saying I've been a part of quite a few beta tests in my time, and this is easily the best run beta I've been a part of! The developers obviously care, the forum is unusually civil and friendly, suggestions are listened too, and bugs are found and squashed in a very timely manner. So, Kudos!

Here is a short list of suggestions I'd like to discuss! Yes, this is short... my original draft of this message was nearly 2400 words. I'm a wordy person I'm sorry

Islands - Island nodes are all circular. Even in cases where the islands all overlap, you can easily tell they were circles. Is this going to change at some point? Islands should be much more random in shape. Also, I like the way the bridges are, so keep them if you can! Map size varies a great deal, but at its largest maps could stand to have another 33% or so land mass for the current set of content. As new things are added, I would suggest increasing the map size as well to prevent cluttering.

Limited Resources - There is a method already present in the game that could fix the flint and stone limitations; the pig king. Without adding models, you could just have the pig king give 5 flint, or 3 stone or 1 gold at random instead of always 1 gold. If you are open to new models, I would suggest adding a Cockatrice (tall bird king) that converts meat into stone, and a Monkey King that converts meat into flint when you add the monkeys.

Limiting Resources - Currently, the renewable resources are way too plentiful. Making berries require manure was a good change, but I don't think grass needing manure is good per se (though it is a good stop gap solution). Wood is also far far too easy to exploit. Once sticks have gotten a few more recipes, sticks will be in the same boat as grass, so I'll address all three resources with my following x step fix...

1. Sticks and grass both have seeds instead of nodes just like trees. Trees should only ever produce a single acorn, never 2 at a time. Also, Acorns should be considered food for birds, so they will land eat them if they see them unattended.

2. Instead of always getting a seed or acorn every time you harvest one of these resources, you should only have about a 20% chance of getting one. Give or take, about half the chance you have of getting gold from a stone. Just like a tree, when you harvest a sapling or grass, they are removed completely (minus a stump).

3. Trees already have a defined life cycle; small tree > medium > large > dead > small. Saplings in the forest biome sometimes become trees too I noticed, but thats a function of that biome i believe. Give grass and saplings a similar life cycle, maybe with fewer steps. IE, Shoots > Harvestable > Flowering > Shoots.

4. Here's the important part. When a tree goes from large to dead, or when a grass or sapling goes from flowering to shoots, it releases a seed/acorn in a random direction. So long as a bird doesn't eat it, after about a 1/4 of a day, that seed/acorn turns into a shoots or small tree.

This should fix a good deal of the issues with making super camps I think. It would require the addition of a scarecrow structure in order to make your little grow ops avoid birds, but I think I read somewhere you are planning that already anyway. In the early stages of the game, you would be forced to rely completely on foraging like it is currently, but for probably a few extra days. Once you have a few seeds and acorns, you would set up dedicated areas for growing new resources, but instead of just planting 40 grass nodes, you would plant 8 grass seeds. Then every couple of days, that number would double when the grass went from Flowering to Shoots.

Exploration - Making the map a craftable item is a good suggestion I've seen, but there needs to be more danger involved with exploration as well. I suggest adding a couple more critters that are usually hostile. In the forest and stone biomes, add bears (or bear like entity like an owlbear, but not copywritten). Bears would be mostly stationary. Only moving in about an area the size the Ents do currently. Bears would eat Berries from bushes, and honey from hives. If a bear goes to a berry bush that is exhausted, he would automatically, ahem, fertilize it.

In the Field, and Wheat biomes, a Jackal/Hyena/Mountain lion like creature. This critter should roam the entire island its on. It tries to eat rabbits, spiders, and pigs.

This would add a bit more danger to the exploration phase of the game, and fits with the survival theme nicely.

I have other suggestions, but these are the big ones right now that I think would help a great deal, and are also relatively easy to add.

[Excess]

Welcome to the forums.

Check out the Roadmap recently posted by the devs. Among other things, they mentioned that they were working on a new world generation system. Hopefully it will change the circles to more random figures.

[Dom-Sithe]

It's actually the roadmap that made me want to post this. I've been lurking the forums for about a week now.

Thanks for the friendly welcome!

[Dom-Sithe]

Well since i have a bit of time, I figured I would throw a couple other suggestions up. These ones though are just things that I personally would like, not necessarily things that should be there.

Grass whistle - just a simple whistle. Makes noise. Uses 4 grass to make, has 4 uses per whistle. Maybe causes spiders to hiss when you use it, or attracts beefalo towards you. Summons birds. Maybe if you use it while the hounds are barking they attack immediately. Nothing major.

Item reclaim - if you drop an item that has durability on the ground you can then use the hammer to break it the same as a structure. Each component would only have a chance at reclamation equal to the durability on the item. IE, if you have a pick at 32% you break, you get a 32% chance at a stick, a 32% chance at a flint and another 32% chance for the second flint.

If this isn't wanted, I would like to able to use items as fire fuel. It bothers me to have a pick at 4%, and its actually risky to use armor under 20%.

Natural gas holes - in the rocky and swamp biomes, a couple of little natural gas holes that can be lit with a torch, acting like little permanent fires (or maybe they go out if you move to far from them). Just a neat idea for campsites in these biomes.

[Dom-Sithe]

How about a couple more. Nobody wants to discuss?

Food Prep - One of the things that seems to be a sticking point is how food ends up being easier then expected to have access too. So, two suggestions I have to help combat this are requiring a stick to cook anything over a fire, and making the crockpot exhausted after each use. This also has the 'up' side of making sticks more important. Each time you cook a morsel or a carrot or something over a flame, it consumes 1 stick from your inventory. To refresh the crockpot, it requires 1 charcoal. Maybe make it like the berry bushes and each charcoal lets you get 3 or so uses before being exhausted.

Caves - Yes yes, I know this topic comes up a heck of a lot, but I thought I would chime in with my 2 cents. Frankly, I think we already almost have them in game. Consider the bridges right now. What if the cave biome was just another island that had black or grey "ocean" around it. In this way, conceptually you are entering into a cave corridor (the bridge) and getting to a large open space. Then, the only thing to add to this is make the biome always night.

[Trevor]

I like the idea of a dark or night biome. It should be more dangerous than any of the current biomes. It would have almost no normal resources but could have a new unique few resources that grow/originate because of the perma-night state like that would encourage you to do there. And you could have new nightmarish creatures. Maybe some lore with confronting the darkness that kills you at night.

[Pig]

I thinl for the gas hole it should only work in swamps because if there was a peremenat fiire it should be in a dangurous place

[Dom-Sithe]

I thinl for the gas hole it should only work in swamps because if there was a peremenat fiire it should be in a dangurous place

Thats partially why I suggested it. The reason I think it should be available in the rocky biome is there appears to be nothing that grows there naturally other then boulders and tall birds. Plus, I will admit that I like the sound of gas roasted morsels. Sounds... dapperly.

[Dom-Sithe]

I've got a few more, so I figured keep them all in the same thread.

Lakes - Are they going to be in more biomes eventually? They could also stand to be larger in size, and less numerous. Out of interest, can they run out of fish/frogs?

Whetstone - sort of a midstep between regular and gold, AND upgrade after gold, go with me here. If you use the whetstone on a regular tool (ax, pick or shovel) it uses up the stone to full repair the tool. Can't be used on gold tools. However if you gather 5 or so whetstones, some stone blocks, boards, and let's say a red stone, you can make a magic auto repair structure. You put a regular tool into it, start it up and wait 5 mins, come back its fully repaired. Again, doesn't work on gold tools.

Cane - uses 4 reeds. Equipped in hand slot. Is most dapper! That's it.

Research points - yes they are disappearing, but maybe its wrth keeping kind of? We get xp after death (also changing but shush, lemme explain hehe ) to unlock characters, but what if you could choose to convert xp into rp? Then, use the rp to unlock items permanently like now. Anything not unlocked like this would still use the prototype system in game.

Well, thoughts on all these and previous ideas are open for discussing!

[mobius187]

Grass whistle - just a simple whistle. Makes noise. Uses 4 grass to make, has 4 uses per whistle. Maybe causes spiders to hiss when you use it, or attracts beefalo towards you. Summons birds. Maybe if you use it while the hounds are barking they attack immediately. Nothing major.

I always thought the Feathered Hat, aka the "Pretty Hat", attracted more bird to you already. Of course I don't think anything currently attracts beefalo... although I'm curious how the beefalo hat will eventually be implemented.

Item reclaim - if you drop an item that has durability on the ground you can then use the hammer to break it the same as a structure. Each component would only have a chance at reclamation equal to the durability on the item. IE, if you have a pick at 32% you break, you get a 32% chance at a stick, a 32% chance at a flint and another 32% chance for the second flint.

If this isn't wanted, I would like to able to use items as fire fuel. It bothers me to have a pick at 4%, and its actually risky to use armor under 20%.

Ever since the hammer was introduced I wondered why it didn't allow you to break apart items. I have lots of mostly useless log suits, that I would never risk wearing, littering my island. On a side note, why can't you burn a log suit in a fire as fuel? Its name literally implies its nature... and yet, no go.

On the flip side, another user suggested being able to craft a workbench that would let you either combine two damage items of the same type into a less damaged version (ala Minecraft's repair system) or my suggestion, which was to provide a component of the original crafting forumula to repair the item (i.e. the gold axe, use gold ore to repair/restore 35% durability or a stick to repair/restore 5% durability).

Natural gas holes - in the rocky and swamp biomes, a couple of little natural gas holes that can be lit with a torch, acting like little permanent fires (or maybe they go out if you move to far from them). Just a neat idea for campsites in these biomes.

Not sure about natural gas, but what about crude oil? Back before there were useful I used to think the ponds in the swamp were oil puddles (they were so dark). I imagined we would collect oil from them to create lanterns or fuel machines...

How about a couple more. Nobody wants to discuss?

Well you didn't speak my name aloud... so how am I supposed to know?

Food Prep - One of the things that seems to be a sticking point is how food ends up being easier then expected to have access too. So, two suggestions I have to help combat this are requiring a stick to cook anything over a fire, and making the crockpot exhausted after each use. This also has the 'up' side of making sticks more important. Each time you cook a morsel or a carrot or something over a flame, it consumes 1 stick from your inventory. To refresh the crockpot, it requires 1 charcoal. Maybe make it like the berry bushes and each charcoal lets you get 3 or so uses before being exhausted.

While I can see the logic, I'm not include to go around burning trees down just for my crock pot if I can avoid it. Also, while the sticks make sense... right now that's a LOT of sticks. And what about for food like berries? I mean, on average cooking berries seems funny, but skewering them on a stick seems just as funny.

Maybe we need pots and pans. I know, we should somehow figure out how to keep that pot which magically appears whenever we cook up meaty stew. We need to stop eating it. The pot, not the stew. Or maybe our sanity meter is just too low...

Caves - Yes yes, I know this topic comes up a heck of a lot, but I thought I would chime in with my 2 cents. Frankly, I think we already almost have them in game. Consider the bridges right now. What if the cave biome was just another island that had black or grey "ocean" around it. In this way, conceptually you are entering into a cave corridor (the bridge) and getting to a large open space. Then, the only thing to add to this is make the biome always night.

Yes, we need underground caverns. If you ask me why I'll go into it... I really will... you have been warned.

[Dom-Sithe]

All I really want the whistle for is to make spiders hiss (its so funny to me), and make hounds attack earlier. They keep showing up juuuuust before night, so its a juggle to stay in the light and not burn down my stuff.

Yeah, lousy nigh broken armor! Grr!

Oil implies more uses. The gas is just something that is a standalone bonus. Also, on the plus side, bring near it when its not lit would reduce your sanity! Nothing like psychotropic fumes!

As for the sticks, include my idea in another thread about decaying food. You only need sticks for food you can't eat raw. Fresh morsels, all veges, they can be eaten without cooking. Non-fresh meat requires a stick. To cook veges you just need a fire pit. Use the rocks as a skillet like I do when camping.

[mobius187]

All I really want the whistle for is to make spiders hiss (its so funny to me), and make hounds attack earlier. They keep showing up juuuuust before night, so its a juggle to stay in the light and not burn down my stuff.

Both needs are frivilously humorous.

Oil implies more uses. The gas is just something that is a standalone bonus. Also, on the plus side, bring near it when its not lit would reduce your sanity! Nothing like psychotropic fumes!

I guess the only drawback would be needing to stay in the swamp to be close to the fire. But even so, I'm just not sure a permanent light source is a great idea. The only time I ever suggested it was for volcanic island biomes... what with all the fire and lava. Of course the fact that staying on the volcanic island was detrimental to your health and long life, due to all its hazards, counter-balanced the pros of the infinite light sources found there.

Besides, we have fireflies... they can be our "forever friends".

As for the sticks, include my idea in another thread about decaying food. You only need sticks for food you can't eat raw. Fresh morsels, all veges, they can be eaten without cooking. Non-fresh meat requires a stick. To cook veges you just need a fire pit. Use the rocks as a skillet like I do when camping.

Ah yes, I know you supported the idea of "fresh vs unfresh" foods. For me, I've supported the idea of "fresh vs rotten" foods. Similar to how it's handled in Project Zomboid, each food can stay fresh a certain number of days, after which it spoils and becomes rotten. Eating rotten food makes you sick. For Don't Starve I suggested that food stack from oldest to newest, with the oldest at the bottom. Players who stack too much food would find that when they encountered their first "rotten" food item, they would know everything else below it in the stack was also rotten and they should dispose of it. The opposite is also feasible, as we could use CTRL to remove rotten food from the top of its stack.

Of course in addition to supporting food rotting I also support suggestions that allow us to preserve foods, like salting meats or smoking/drying fish. The trade off being that while they last much longer they don't satiate as much hunger (because they don't taste as good as "fresh" food).

[Dom-Sithe]

I guess the only drawback would be needing to stay in the swamp to be close to the fire. But even so, I'm just not sure a permanent light source is a great idea. The only time I ever suggested it was for volcanic island biomes... what with all the fire and lava. Of course the fact that staying on the volcanic island was detrimental to your health and long life, due to all its hazards, counter-balanced the pros of the infinite light sources found there.

Ah, fair point. How about this then... Lit gas areas have a small chance to spawn extra gas geysers close by. That way, staying near one has a chance to create a small area of conflagration! And like I said earlier, its just a permanent location for fire, not a permanent fire. If you were to leave the area they go out mysteriously. Mayhaps a helpful tentacle or tallbird squashes it of screen.

Ah yes, I know you supported the idea of "fresh vs unfresh" foods. For me, I've supported the idea of "fresh vs rotten" foods. Similar to how it's handled in Project Zomboid, each food can stay fresh a certain number of days, after which it spoils and becomes rotten. Eating rotten food makes you sick. For Don't Starve I suggested that food stack from oldest to newest, with the oldest at the bottom. Players who stack too much food would find that when they encountered their first "rotten" food item, they would know everything else below it in the stack was also rotten and they should dispose of it. The opposite is also feasible, as we could use CTRL to remove rotten food from the top of its stack.

Of course in addition to supporting food rotting I also support suggestions that allow us to preserve foods, like salting meats or smoking/drying fish. The trade off being that while they last much longer they don't satiate as much hunger (because they don't taste as good as "fresh" food).

The problem with this idea doesn't have anything to do with the food stuff themselves actually. Cause over all, its a good idea. Now, I don't know how common food is in PZ, but in DS its possible to pick up 100s of food items in a single day. Plus, how do the timers work for things in bags or boxes. What if you throw it on the ground? These triggers all get added into the processing load, and I've heard some computers are already struggling a bit. There are ways around this that I can think of myself actually, but they start causing more problems once you allow stacking. Which is why the idea I suggest is a lot easier to implement. Fresh would use an already present mechanic (the % system), and would countdown quickly. Then, once its done, it becomes just another object.

[mobius187]

Ah, fair point. How about this then... Lit gas areas have a small chance to spawn extra gas geysers close by. That way, staying near one has a chance to create a small area of conflagration! And like I said earlier, its just a permanent location for fire, not a permanent fire. If you were to leave the area they go out mysteriously. Mayhaps a helpful tentacle or tallbird squashes it of screen.

Well adding risk would make the idea more reasonable. However, maybe instead of lasting until you left the area it could instead be an unreliable light source... When you ignite the gases and it would illuminate the area, but then have it that each gas geyser lasts for a random duration, after which it quickly dies off and extinguishes. So a player could benefit from finding one, and it might last for the night and then some... or it may very will extinguish in the middle of the night forcing the player to pull out a torch or create a hasty camp fire.

...Now, I don't know how common food is in PZ, but in DS its possible to pick up 100s of food items in a single day.

I think that's part of the issue. We acquire lots... maybe too much... food in Don't Starve (DS). In Project Zomboid (PZ) you need to scavenge for food, so you may find little (i.e. house kitchen) or a lot (i.e. grocery store), it really depends on what previous survivors have raided. Also food collection is balanced against other needs. Areas with lots of food also have lots of zombies, so if you're ill prepared you'll run into crowds of them and they'll start chasing you. Unlike DS, it's far easier to be overwhelmed by enemies in PZ, so you often need to retreat or hide, which again takes time. It's all about balancing needs.

Plus, how do the timers work for things in bags or boxes. What if you throw it on the ground? These triggers all get added into the processing load, and I've heard some computers are already struggling a bit.

Again, should we really have multiple stacks of x40 food in Don't Starve? I don't think so. I know for a fact that in PZ you could place food in the refrigerator to keep them fresh longer... that is, until the power fails in the game. But until then it extends the life of food. Realistically though in Don't Starve we should have that much food that we're filling whole chests with it. But that's just my opinion.

There are ways around this that I can think of myself actually, but they start causing more problems once you allow stacking. Which is why the idea I suggest is a lot easier to implement. Fresh would use an already present mechanic (the % system), and would countdown quickly. Then, once its done, it becomes just another object.

Still, I know they have rotting in PZ and they also have stacking... so they must have come up with a solution. I may need to revisit them to review it. Anyway, for now Kevin has shelved rotting until he can work out whether it's more useful than troublesome.