Limited Resources

[mobius187]

We all know that certain creatures in the game right now are either limitless, like birds, rabbits, and spiders, or limited, like beefalo, tall birds, and tentacles (at least until Kevin updates this). To resolve this issue I know the plan is to introduce baby animals (i.e. baby beefalo) which is all well and good, but what about other resources?

I'm of course talking about boulders, or specifically what's inside them: rock, gold ore, and flint. Now while the pig king will cough up an endless supply of gold with the right motivation, that still leaves us with the issue that, Sooner or later, you'll mine every boulder in the game and have no more rock or flint.

So my question to everyone is how do you think this issue could be resolved? Or do you like the finite quality of resources?

As for myself I would prefer never to completely run out of any resource. I don't mind scarcity, rarity, or even requiring a degree of patience to wait for a resource to return, but I wouldn't want anything to be completely used up. To this end I can only come up with two ideas:

1) Underground Caverns - As I've suggested in the past, if there were a means of accessing underground areas, say via a crevasse in the surface of an island, then it could potentially lead to a whole new source of boulders as one might well imagine (among other things). Now while the boulders would still be finite, the sheer quantity of acceptable boulders, stones, and flint that could simply be "lying around" would fit with the environment and should therefore be able to exceed most normal player needs.

2) Volcanic Island - In other threads I've discussed the idea of islands possessing different biomes, especially if the game never has seasons. One such unique biome that was suggested was a hazardous volcanic island where lava spews forth randomly to create pools and rivers. It would be hard to imagine that perhaps several boulders could spawn from the volcano... perhaps raining down from above every few days during a violent eruption and landing around the island randomly.

Thoughts?

[501105]

I have thought about it and I would like there to be infinite sources of all resources in the game in some form. It is your quest to survive and determine how to do this and I hate the fact that the limited resources could determine the way you play. Part of why I love Minecraft is that it lets you do all you want. A big part of Minecraft is the fact that you have a world that basically never ends. Since Dont Starve has a much smaller world I would like there to be new sources for the current limited resources (do my sentences sound like rhimes or is it just me?).

I dont want there to be unendless amount of rocks to fix the amount of flint. I think there should be tiers for limited resources. You start with a basic way of getting them that you can use from the start of the game and then have other ways of getting that resource with some extra tools or items made. Both of your suggestion are a bit in that direction and for that fact I like them.

[mobius187]

I hate the fact that the limited resources could determine the way you play.

Tell me about it... until Kevin introduces baby animals I don't plan to hunt the beefalo or tall birds. Well, except for the one beefalo I used Abigail to kill. But that was a test... for science!

Part of why I love Minecraft is that it lets you do all you want. A big part of Minecraft is the fact that you have a world that basically never ends. Since Dont Starve has a much smaller world I would like there to be new sources for the current limited resources (do my sentences sound like rhimes or is it just me?).

It's not a crime, to always rhyme. I agree about the fact that, while limited in theory (or location), the fact that Miencraft's maps are so massive means you'll never truly run out of anything. My only qualm is that certain blocks only spawn when you create a new map or load a new chunk. So for me, who started before emeralds were introduced, I need to travel great distances in order to locate them.

But yes, as Don't Starve isn't going to be anywhere near as large as the maps for Minecraft it makes sense that no resource is truly limited. There should always be some way to acquire more... even if the "easy ways" have all expired.

I dont want there to be unendless amount of rocks to fix the amount of flint. I think there should be tiers for limited resources. You start with a basic way of getting them that you can use from the start of the game and then have other ways of getting that resource with some extra tools or items made. Both of your suggestion are a bit in that direction and for that fact I like them.

Which is why I see the volcanic island as an interesting option. You start off finding flint on the ground, with no real effort needed to collect it. Then after that's all gone you create a pick axe and start mining it from boulders. Then once all the boulders on the easy islands are gone, then you need to venture over to the dangerous volcanic island... risking a horrible burning death... to mine the boulders that rain down from the eruptions. The idea is the volcanic island is a very hostile environment and you wouldn't want to camp there... although with all the rivers/pools of burning lava it would be the best illuminated island at night, so super-safe from Grues. If that's a comfort when avoid bring burned alive or crushed by falling rocks.

[501105]

When resources are limited you tend to use those as less as possible, or atleast it has that effect on me. It is for that reason that I have not killed a single beefalo or tallbird yet, since they are finite and dont respawn or bring young into the world.

Updates tend to be a tricky thing. In both Minecraft and Dont Starve you sometimes need to make a new world to have all kinds of resources and biomes in your world. If you play a Minecraft world on the base of the newest update, then it should offer all there is to have in a nearly infinite amount. I believe that the world of Dont Starve will get bigger, but nowhere near that of Minecraft, so yeah, having finite resource limits a lot of the fun there can be had.

The idea of different tiers to get resources in increasingly difficult ways should apply to more than just flint. Getting gold from the pig king is a bit boring and having something different and dangerous in place of it would be fun. The same applies to beehives, but I cant really think of one at the moment.

[NeedPants]

One could add an event called earthquake that would occur once every X turns. It shakes the ground during the night and pushes rocks towards the surface. It could add some danger for the player aswell, but the main point is it would create new rocks on some or all islands that have rocks as a possible spawning resource. This event would be like once every 50 days (for example) and would add 2 rocks on tiny islands, 4 on medium ones and 6 on large ones.

Sortof a growth of rock.

Either that or do it the boring way: uve mined all rocks, ur watching ur map: SUDDENLY ROCK! and a new rock spawned on a rocky island. Make those islands automatically spawn new ones over time, but limiting the max amount so they dont spawn everywhere if u dont mine the island at all.

EDIT: reading about the pig king: make him only give a certain amount of gold per day. So it "feels" more limited. Personally i have never needed him. Always mined enough gold to make my best tools until the day i died or suicided.

Edited November 23, 2012 by NeedPants

[mobius187]

When resources are limited you tend to use those as less as possible, or atleast it has that effect on me. It is for that reason that I have not killed a single beefalo or tallbird yet, since they are finite and dont respawn or bring young into the world.

Exactly. Same here.

Updates tend to be a tricky thing. In both Minecraft and Dont Starve you sometimes need to make a new world to have all kinds of resources and biomes in your world. If you play a Minecraft world on the base of the newest update, then it should offer all there is to have in a nearly infinite amount. I believe that the world of Dont Starve will get bigger, but nowhere near that of Minecraft, so yeah, having finite resource limits a lot of the fun there can be had.

The only problem I have with restarting Minecraft with a new world is that I've built a LOT in my current map, and I would hate to see it all disappear. As such I'm waiting for the "huge update" that will make it totally worthwhile to end my current world map. Now in Don't Starve it's much simpler because at this stage you aren't really investing that much time/effort, but since that would be something Klei may want in the future (to keep players investing in their game) then this issue should be addressed at some stage.

The idea of different tiers to get resources in increasingly difficult ways should apply to more than just flint. Getting gold from the pig king is a bit boring and having something different and dangerous in place of it would be fun. The same applies to beehives, but I cant really think of one at the moment.

Agreed. Not necessarily for all resources, like wood, but for some of the more useful or uncommon ones. Gold is a prime example. I'm also curious about natural beehives... why can't we steal honey from them without breaking them open? I think they should let us not attack a beehive, but rather collect honey from it (say with a bucket), but in doing so it triggers a bee attack.

One could add an event called earthquake that would occur once every X turns. It shakes the ground during the night and pushes rocks towards the surface. It could add some danger for the player aswell, but the main point is it would create new rocks on some or all islands that have rocks as a possible spawning resource. This event would be like once every 50 days (for example) and would add 2 rocks on tiny islands, 4 on medium ones and 6 on large ones.

That could work. Or on a grander scale, have a "rock" island sink beneath the waves during an earthquake (you die if you're on the island by the end of the day) and then a new "rock" island (no trees) rises elsewhere on the map. Of course this idea works better if there aren't island bridges and you travel to island, say, by raft.

EDIT: reading about the pig king: make him only give a certain amount of gold per day. So it "feels" more limited. Personally i have never needed him. Always mined enough gold to make my best tools until the day i died or suicided.

Good idea. They should let you feed him once or twice, then he burps and falls asleep.

[Excess]

But the scarcity of some resources adds to the atmosphear and tension. If everything where infinite, you would use stuff as you pleased, never worrying about anything (except that tentacle that's trying to grab your leg now).

I still haven't reached a point where a certain resource disappeared before I get bored and shuffle my world, as it is now.

[mobius187]

But the scarcity of some resources adds to the atmosphear and tension. If everything where infinite, you would use stuff as you pleased, never worrying about anything (except that tentacle that's trying to grab your leg now).

Well limitless would necessarily mean "easy to acquire". As I suggested with my solution for flint the player starts off acquiring it easily, but as they use up all the easy resources they're forced to take greater risks to acquire said resource. So if you squander it, then you have to pay later by risking your life to get more (from deadly volcano island in this case).

I still haven't reached a point where a certain resource disappeared before I get bored and shuffle my world, as it is now.

True. But who knows how the game will be like once it's released? Right now we're hitting a content wall that doesn't inspire any real desire to retain maps after a set duration. Maybe that will one day change.

[Draugur]

But the scarcity of some resources adds to the atmosphear and tension. If everything where infinite, you would use stuff as you pleased, never worrying about anything (except that tentacle that's trying to grab your leg now).

I still haven't reached a point where a certain resource disappeared before I get bored and shuffle my world, as it is now.

I agree. Not to mention that I have yet to actually mine every single boulder or even leave the first island before day 60. Having finite resources actually makes the game more tense as you have to wonder how you'd get along without them. Assuming the game will get harder, I doubt this is an issue that will be actually present any challenge for most of the game.

[501105]

That is however only with the current beginning of your survival in place. Once mid and end game are implemented it will become a different story. Then you will hit the end of some resources if no new sources of them are introduced. I think that it is better to have everythng infinite with increasingly greater risks in order to get those resources than simply running out of them completely.

[mobius187]

That is however only with the current beginning of your survival in place. Once mid and end game are implemented it will become a different story.

We can all only imagine what that will be like...

Then you will hit the end of some resources if no new sources of them are introduced. I think that it is better to have everythng infinite with increasingly greater risks in order to get those resources than simply running out of them completely.

That's what I believe, within reason. Simply put, if a resource is finite (i.e. no respawn) then there should be to still allow players to acquire it at greater risk. However, if a resource can be made infinite (i.e. trees via pine cones) and a player willfully chooses to endanger this resource... well I say let them. I mean, if you want to burn down every tree on your map or kill every beefalo... as a conscious choice... then the game should let them. Otherwise if a player want to preserve resource, at least to a reasonable degree, the game should allow that too.

[501105]

That I agree with, if you burn down every forest in the game, then you should feel the consequences. The same applies to killing all beefalo and even their cute babies (you monster). It is still surviving after all and a survivor that destroys resources should not be rewarded or helped.

[supernerd]

I think volcanic islands is an awesome idea for renewable mineral(i.e. stone, flint, gold) resources! What if rocks and the pig king did not drop gold and you had to venture to a volcano island or some such dangerous environment, as the only way to get it?

[mobius187]

I think volcanic islands is an awesome idea for renewable mineral(i.e. stone, flint, gold) resources! What if rocks and the pig king did not drop gold and you had to venture to a volcano island or some such dangerous environment, as the only way to get it?

In a word... awesome.