Wilson is bland and unenjoyable to play

[Golden Daemon]

6 hours ago, Mr.Tarunio said:

I think Wilson will always be the easy to know the game more character.

i wish he had more skills related to "know the game more".
like being able to discern more information from things when examining them (something akin to Insight or showme except less meta gamey) or remarking on events in more detail. giving information that can both provide valuable gameplay benefits for veteran players and also teach new players about things that they might have not known otherwise.

[Capybara007]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

And the devs themselves have already said that they are dissatisfied with the old skill trees and will revise them in the future.

First rework: willow (may 2019) bernie + inmune to fire
Last rework: maxwell (nov 2022) reworked codex umbra, new spells, new craftables and gear boosts minions damage

First skill tree: wilson (march 2023) torch toss, beard storage, item transmutation, shadow and lunar affinities are just a crafting recipe
Latest skill tree: WX (may? 2026) 3 drones, chasis, alpha beta and gamma circuits, (7?) new circuits, shadow and lunar affinities are for either combat or gathering resources

First skill tree revisit: wilson (2027) torch telekinesis, beard minion follower, more transmutation recipes

Eighty fifth skill tree revisit: Wes (2099) updated lazer eyes, buffed celestial champion minion followers, added 10 new weapons that vary on the gem color, 6 new craftable nuclear bombs, increased multiverse portal cap to 10, added a new "ultra insight" skill tree with 18 total branches

Hopefully klei knows what they want to do with the characters in DSE from the beginning, unlike in DST

[Well-met]

speak for yourself and keep sleeping on his tree

[Cruvimaster]

16 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

First skill tree revisit: wilson (2027) torch telekinesis, beard minion follower, more transmutation recipes

I don't see any possibility of revisiting next year with so many characters without skill trees. I hope Klei has the good sense to give skills to those who never had them before to revisit. In any case, let's wait.

[_sirJames]

Wilson's Transmute Icky skill is unironically really good on teams for doubling meatball output

I have nothing else to contribute, just something I observed while playing him

[YouKnowWho142]

Honestly I used to agree with this, but now I don’t really think so. Characters now are so crazy and strong that there’s a common trend with them. Look at bee queen, for instance. Before skill trees, it was very rare for a character to be combat focused so every character, including Wilson, usually dealt with bee queen the same way. Now though, every character has a unique method of killing the bee queen. That’s not a bad thing at all, I celebrate all the uniqueness in the kits, but it means that characters don’t feel forced to interact with many universal tools. Teleport characters aren’t going to care about the new portation fragments, aoe characters aren’t going to use weather panes, etc.

That’s where Wilson comes in. He’s not reliant on his unique character tools to get out of situations or gain an edge. Instead, he focuses on the tools available to everyone and putting them to their best use in order to come out on top. When I look at it that way, he really is conquering the world with the power of his mind.

Dont get me wrong, I’d still love to see his skill tree tweaked. I just hope they double down on his resourcefulness and ability to utilize tools available to everyone in his own unique way instead of giving him strong powers like everyone else. I don’t see anything wrong with a character who needs to interact with the tools the game provides instead of what their character provides. The fact that he’s the only character now who really plays this way is what makes him inherently unique to me, and it’s why I don’t really find him so bland either when I would’ve thought so before everyone else got skill trees.

Edited 7 hours ago by YouKnowWho142

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can say with absolute certainty that Newbies pick Wilson is a Myth.

... Why are you using anecdotal evidence to say something with "absolute certainty"?

Also... When people introduce others to the game, they also influence the first decisions those people make... Did you suggest those new players you introduced to the game to start with certain specific characters?

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

but you have the attitude that newbies simply start playing DST without ever having seen anything on the internet, and you don't believe that either.

I actually do believe that the vast majority of new players do not look up youtube tutorials and the like before deciding to buy a game. They might see a review or they might be recommended the game by a friend, but... I really don't believe they'll know much about the game when they first boot it up. And starting with the first character when you first boot up a game you barely know anything about is pretty standard behavior.

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Without them, they have no knowledge whatsoever; they won't even know what a skill tree is

Yeah, until they play for a few days and get the Insight Pop Up... And once they do, if they're playing Wilson, they'll be getting the most newbie-friendly skill tree in the game, because it lacks complexity.

Which is part of what makes Wilson good for new players. He is not complex.

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

And the devs themselves have already said that they are dissatisfied with the old skill trees and will revise them in the future.

I did see that, but we currently don't know what the devs plan to do with the old skill trees when they do revisit them.

I'm personally imagining that in case of Wilson, they'll try adding more power without adding more complexity to it... Like, for example, making torch tree cost 3~5 points instead of 7 to be complete, then proceed to add a skill that buffs Spear dmg/durability or something (not saying that this would be a good addition, mind you, it's just an example to highlight my point of what's the kind of thing I expect).

I could, of course, be wrong. We don't know the devs' plans. But I do believe they'll try to keep Wilson as a very simple character to make sure he is very beginner-friendly.

[reddocc]

Wilson will never be "op" there's no need for him to be extra complicated there are tools in this game that allows him to solve any problem 

Edited 6 hours ago by reddocc

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Honestly I used to agree with this, but now I don’t really think so. Characters now are so crazy and strong that there’s a common trend with them. Look at bee queen, for instance. Before skill trees, it was very rare for a character to be combat focused so every character, including Wilson, usually dealt with bee queen the same way. Now though, every character has a unique method of killing the bee queen. That’s not a bad thing at all, I celebrate all the uniqueness in the kits, but it means that characters don’t feel forced to interact with many universal tools. Teleport characters aren’t going to care about the new portation fragments, aoe characters aren’t going to use weather panes, etc.

That’s where Wilson comes in. He’s not reliant on his unique character tools to get out of situations or gain an edge. Instead, he focuses on the tools available to everyone and putting them to their best use in order to come out on top. When I look at it that way, he really is conquering the world with the power of his mind.

Dont get me wrong, I’d still love to see his skill tree tweaked. I just hope they double down on his resourcefulness and ability to utilize tools available to everyone in his own unique way instead of giving him strong powers like everyone else. I don’t see anything wrong with a character who needs to interact with the tools the game provides instead of what their character provides. The fact that he’s the only character now who really plays this way is what makes him inherently unique to me, and it’s why I don’t really find him so bland either when I would’ve thought so before everyone else got skill trees.

You say all this, and I counter that by saying Wilson is a SCIENTIST, at the very very least Klei could have given him the ability to create a Brightshade Hammer like weapon (which is a Pickaxe/Hammer & Weapon just barely above spear levels) I mean… 90% of the characters cast of unique “skills” are really just early game or easier access versions of gadgets you’d unlock through other means playing a different character. like Willows Fireball is just a Dwarf star but easier access to it.

Klei could have given Wilson SOMETHING.

[YouKnowWho142]

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean… 90% of the characters cast of unique “skills” are really just early game or easier access versions of gadgets you’d unlock through other means playing a different character. like Willows Fireball is just a Dwarf star but easier access to it.

That’s literally my entire point. Wilson relies only on what the game gives him instead of what characters provide for themselves. While other characters are using fireballs, soul hops, Abigail, merms, or teletransports, Wilson is using dwarf stars, lazy explorers, weather panes, pigmen, and telelocators. It’s a layer to his gameplay that other characters completely ignore or sideline in favor of their own plots or mechanics. He has his gimmick, other characters have theirs. 

im not going to argue with you mike since you’re a master at going in circles and creating meaningless discussion.

Edited 6 hours ago by YouKnowWho142

[Cruvimaster]

50 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

I actually do believe that the vast majority of new player

Even if you believe it, remember that beginners don't start a world with skill points. So they'll have Wilson's standard experience. How many days will they have to play to get all 15 points?

And the whole debate here revolves around Wilson's skill tree, not a rework of the character. And Wilson's skill tree shouldn't be designed for beginner players only, but for all players. The character looks like Klei and is bad in my opinion (regarding the skill tree).

Furthermore, the devs' dissatisfaction with some older skill trees is a fact, not an opinion. If Wilson is on the devs' list, what will matter in the forum is opinions for improvement instead of saying it's perfect.

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

Even if you believe it, remember that beginners don't start a world with skill points. So they'll have Wilson's standard experience. How many days will they have to play to get all 15 points?

Rather than worry about the 15 points, I'd rather worry about each individual point, and you get your first point very early on.

If Wilson had complex options in the skill tree, a beginner might be unsure of what to pick because they don't know enough about the game, and they might pick something that might not help them overall.

But with the current skill tree, the options are transmute (which they'll probably skip because they dunno how useful they are), torch (immediately useful and likely to be picked) and beard (probably skipped at first, but might be picked after the beginner gets to their first winter and realizes why the beard is useful).

Which makes it a pretty good skill tree for a beginner. Torch is immediately useful and very intuitive, beard is useful as early as the first winter and becomes intuitive once said winter arrives, and transmute is there for when you know the game better.

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

And Wilson's skill tree shouldn't be designed for beginner players only, but for all players. The character looks like Klei and is bad in my opinion (regarding the skill tree).

I don't think there is any problem in having certain characters designed for certain portions of the playerbase?

We have a lot of characters aimed at everyone, there is nothing wrong with having Wilson being more beginner-friendly and Wes being the challenge character.

Because like... If someone dislikes Wilson they can just... Pick any of the other characters? Why is it a bad thing for Wilson to have a specific audience in mind? I don't get it.

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

Furthermore, the devs' dissatisfaction with some older skill trees is a fact, not an opinion. If Wilson is on the devs' list, what will matter in the forum is opinions for improvement instead of saying it's perfect.

I mean, yeah, the forum is for feedback, but devs probably have their own plans already by this point, especially because lots of threads were made for Wilson skill tree by this point.

Of course, more feedback never hurts, but just like you (and other people) are saying they would like Wilson to become more complex and interesting, I'm also saying that I would prefer Wilson to remain simple, even if I would be happy with more power being given to him... Both are valid feedback, and it's up to the devs to choose which feedback they wanna act on.

[Mike23Ua]

Because “Default (Wilson) & Challenge (Wes)” should be game modes or World Options, not the character you play as? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[lowercasename]

4 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

That’s where Wilson comes in. He’s not reliant on his unique character tools to get out of situations or gain an edge. Instead, he focuses on the tools available to everyone and putting them to their best use in order to come out on top. When I look at it that way, he really is conquering the world with the power of his mind.

Kind of hard to agree when there are mechanics like gunpowder explosion damage soft-limit when it's probably the strongest part of Wilson that was actually unique to him with his easy access to mass nitre.
Though then also other characters can also get a lot of nitre easily thanks to boulderboughs too now.

And then there's other characters like even the "simple to play" Wolfgang with Ice Bell toss spam for cheesing certain stuff (Crab King) that are just more interesting.
Anyway, that and another post earlier mentioning spears (and condensing torch skill tree to take less skill points to max out) maybe could just have it so that Wilson's thing is throwing stuff? Throwing spears, torch, rocks, maybe even throwable explosives.

But then also there's already Walter, so hmm.

[FluffyBun]

15 hours ago, Wumpair said:

 

And I find that his skilltree has good things, it is not "objectivelly terrible": Large meat = 2 morsels permutation means 1 tall bird kill will give you enogh meat ingredients for 2 pirogies, and refresh food value. Gold <-> nitre is usefull when you have tons of one and little of other. The twigs <-> logs can be very good in a pintch where you need logs (e.i. campfire, glass cuter, general crafting) and run out of them. The gems -> iridesent gems lets you speedrun CC and sanctum golemns. Rocks <-> flint perfect for things such as couble stone crafting and you had ingredients in un-even quantities. The beard storage is efectively +3 inventory slots which is solid. And yes, the lantern exists, but torch toss has its uses, and it is so satisifying to just toss a low-percent tourch, e.i. after buring things for ashes, instead of holding it in your hand. 

 

You are going to select every Alchemy skill every single game and ignore the rest, because torch sucks.

Honestly, just buff alchemy more.