？？？？？

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

In the early game, yes, mostly when other players already picked all the fruits and veggies around spawn, but after you make a farm, you can survive even on pub server + I like to get stone fruits when I play as wurt.

You are right but farms are very time consuming for the average person who doesn't know or care to use the crop combos and not too many people ever make it to the lunar Islands and of those who do some wait until they are settled a year or so in. Even then just about every existing downside can be handled with some work in a similar way.

[doritosdamafia]

12 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

In the early game, yes, mostly when other players already picked all the fruits and veggies around spawn, but after you make a farm, you can survive even on pub server + I like to get stone fruits when I play as wurt.

i raid the lunar sland almost in very save

[Kvetevk]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

You are right but farms are very time consuming for the average person who doesn't know or care to use the crop combos and not too many people ever make it to the lunar Islands and of those who do some wait until they are settled a year or so in. Even then just about every existing downside can be handled with some work in a similar way.

does some wurt players not care about farms? It all depends on your playstyle I guess.
I just hope that after skill trees, Klei will add new fitting flaws, maybe even to the skill trees (for example: Willow fire magic is weaker during winter).

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Kvetevk said:

does some wurt players not care about farms? It all depends on your playstyle I guess.
I just hope that after skill trees, Klei will add new fitting flaws, maybe even to the skill trees (for example: Willow fire magic is weaker during winter).

Most don't in my experience as it's a easy way to waste a lot of time.

We're good at the game so it doesn't seem like it hunger issues is one of the long time major issues with the character and one of the most common things asked when people ask online for help. You have to remember hunger and sanity issues have lead to the least popular characters historically and for a good reason.

[cropo]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I'll exclude Willow and Wolfgang because their skills directly counteract their weaknesses

I play Willow a lot and the only thing that is truly counteracting her weakness in my opinion is thermal stones. Sure, you can literally stand in fire to get warm(as you should) but it's  the thermal stone that helps her keep that warmth far longer than she should. 

If she had a significantly reduced thermal stone effectiveness, or thermal stones were nerfed in general, her disadvantage would be far more noticeable. You really can't give a character a cold weakness when thermal stones exist.

Trying to do anything in winter without a thermal stone is a huge pain. Even at max temperature and a decent insulation hat your heat drops rather quickly. Once you reach the freezing point, she loses a much larger chunk of health and sanity than other characters even if you catch it in only a few seconds. I once accidentally forgot my eyebrella during spring and it rained in the caves and I simply could not leave my fire and had to wear a nightmare helmet and just stand there because if I moved away from it I would die from freezing before I could even make it out of the ruins.

[aidancode]

7 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

Wortox eats souls, Wurt get bonus from food (pigs got replaced by merms)

That's the point of the downside. It's not to block players out of something, it's to replace an old strategy with a new strategy. Like, imagine if Warly's downside didn't come with exactly Warly's upside. That would suck! But the upside offers a solution to the downside. Thats just how the design is supposed to work.

[Mysterious box]

15 minutes ago, cropo said:

I play Willow a lot and the only thing that is truly counteracting her weakness in my opinion is thermal stones. Sure, you can literally stand in fire to get warm(as you should) but it's  the thermal stone that helps her keep that warmth far longer than she should. 

If she had a significantly reduced thermal stone effectiveness, or thermal stones were nerfed in general, her disadvantage would be far more noticeable. You really can't give a character a cold weakness when thermal stones exist.

Trying to do anything in winter without a thermal stone is a huge pain. Even at max temperature and a decent insulation hat your heat drops rather quickly. Once you reach the freezing point, she loses a much larger chunk of health and sanity than other characters even if you catch it in only a few seconds. I once accidentally forgot my eyebrella during spring and it rained in the caves and I simply could not leave my fire and had to wear a nightmare helmet and just stand there because if I moved away from it I would die from freezing before I could even make it out of the ruins.

The thing is even with a thermal stone you need something to warm it up yeah trees and such exist but not every area will have a place where you can burn something. Fireball tips that scales however by making everywhere a place where you have access to fire. 

I disagree on the clothing part I've gotten by just fine with using clothing for warmth.

 

23 minutes ago, cropo said:

I once accidentally forgot my eyebrella during spring and it rained in the caves and I simply could not leave my fire and had to wear a nightmare helmet and just stand there because if I moved away from it I would die from freezing before I could even make it out of the ruins.

This isn't an outcome exclusive to Willow prolonged wetness without proper prep will get you killed regardless.

[Kvetevk]

2 minutes ago, aidancode said:

That's the point of the downside. It's not to block players out of something, it's to replace an old strategy with a new strategy. Like, imagine if Warly's downside didn't come with exactly Warly's upside. That would suck! But the upside offers a solution to the downside. Thats just how the design is supposed to work.

Warly is one of the characters that have one of the best designed downside, not being able to eat any food that was not made in crockpot while also having personal portable crockpot, but on top of all this, he have bigger hunger drain, making him rely on his ability more.
Wurt and Wortox without their downside would play the same, but with more food options, Warly on the other hand would play much differently if he could eat any food.
Wurt doesnt need any meat dishes, because she  gets 33% more hunger, gain sanity from fish in inventory and not needing to heal because you will mostly use merms.
Wortox can eat anything, just getting 50% less stats is only annoying, but you will mostly eat souls and if you dont have them, then you can just make 2 same dishes for the same value as other characters.
Warly doesnt get any buffs from eating crockpot food, but he is also punished for eating the same thing, making his downsides more impactful on his gameplay, Wurt gets 33% more hunger from eating, Wortox have souls but also can eat anything but with 50% less, Warly can only eat crockpot food, have bigger hunger drain, eating same dishes will give you less stats.
I think Warly is fun to play as, his downsides actually matter and they will make you play him a cetain way.

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't an outcome exclusive to Willow prolonged wetness without proper prep will get you killed regardless.

You can get pretty far on a regular character while freezing. The damage takes awhile to build up. For willow her health goes down like a machine gun firing.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

he thing is even with a thermal stone you need something to warm it up yeah trees and such exist but not every area will have a place where you can burn something.

I mean that's like me saying "The thing is even with fireball you need some embers to warm herself up yeah enemies exist but not every area will have a place where you can kill something."

 

 

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I disagree on the clothing part I've gotten by just fine with using clothing for warmth.

Just a hat? Or a hat+coat? I think that's a big difference. With a beefalo hat I constantly have to make pit stops to a nearby tree to warm up which quickly adds up to a lot of wasted time. Unless you want a disadvantage to actually cripple a character I think being forced to contend with it on that level is enough to be considered a disadvantage.

[doritosdamafia]

3 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

Wurt doesnt need any meat dishes, because she  gets 33% more hunger, gain sanity from fish in inventory and not needing to heal because you will mostly use merms.
 

even if she needed to heal, tomato and potato are the best veggie for healing and you can easily get them though the year

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, cropo said:

You can get pretty far on a regular character while freezing. The damage takes awhile to build up. For willow her health goes down like a machine gun firing.

True but it's usually the compounding of the sanity drain, freezing, and slippery tools making it harder to get resources to stop the loop or even fight off the sanity creatures that gets people. Freezing itself isn't that bad for most but wetness is.

11 minutes ago, cropo said:

I mean that's like me saying "The thing is even with fireball you need some embers to warm herself up yeah enemies exist but not every area will have a place where you can kill something."

Where would you be that wouldn't have something to kill? Like legitimately I know there are a few patches with nothing there but that's kinda the key part, nothing there. Why would you be hanging out in a area like that in the first place as areas with something worth getting generally have some sign of life that can be burned unless you actively got rid of them in which case you should have embers.

 

11 minutes ago, cropo said:

Just a hat? Or a hat+coat? I think that's a big difference. With a beefalo hat I constantly have to make pit stops to a nearby tree to warm up which quickly adds up to a lot of wasted time. Unless you want a disadvantage to actually cripple a character I think being forced to contend with it on that level is enough to be considered a disadvantage.

Just a hat and I'm not constantly stopping so I don't know where the issue is if I'm being honest perhaps you don't warm up enough beforehand?

13 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

Warly is one of the characters that have one of the best designed downside, not being able to eat any food that was not made in crockpot while also having personal portable crockpot, but on top of all this, he have bigger hunger drain, making him rely on his ability more.
Wurt and Wortox without their downside would play the same, but with more food options, Warly on the other hand would play much differently if he could eat any food.
Wurt doesnt need any meat dishes, because she  gets 33% more hunger, gain sanity from fish in inventory and not needing to heal because you will mostly use merms.
Wortox can eat anything, just getting 50% less stats is only annoying, but you will mostly eat souls and if you dont have them, then you can just make 2 same dishes for the same value as other characters.
Warly doesnt get any buffs from eating crockpot food, but he is also punished for eating the same thing, making his downsides more impactful on his gameplay, Wurt gets 33% more hunger from eating, Wortox have souls but also can eat anything but with 50% less, Warly can only eat crockpot food, have bigger hunger drain, eating same dishes will give you less stats.
I think Warly is fun to play as, his downsides actually matter and they will make you play him a cetain way.

This is kinda flawed especially on the Warly and Wortox side of things. As Warly isn't prevented from doing a similar play to Wortox who just tanks the food penalty. As he can just rely on meaty stews for hunger and completely ignore his variety downside healing foods could he traded for medicine or just spamming high value healing foods. Something to remember is that Warly needs to eat the same dish a 4th time before it reaches the same decrease Wortox gets from food with the 5th time being that cap with it being 20% lower than Wortox's penalty. The only truly different impact is the inability to eat non crockpot foods but that's still equivalent to Wurt.

 

As for Wurt when it comes to playing differently having access to meat and not having access to meat makes a big impact on your playstyle because the game favors meat drops where as you have to work harder to setup non meat drops. Rather her progression mirrors what you praise about Warly. She has a different progression path for her equivalent of pig king, pigs houses, and food sources.

Edited 13 hours ago by Mysterious box

[xzmm]

Adding water resistance to the robot does not mean it is truly waterproof. Instead, it prevents electric leakage or raises its tolerance to humidity. However, once the moisture reaches a certain level, it will lose sanity just like an ordinary person.