[Feedback] The Shadow Affinity Doesn't Fit WX-78's Core Concept

[KINOTAKO]

I’m going to be blunt, but the current Shadow Affinity doesn't fit into the chassis, the circuits, or the drones. It simply doesn't align with WX's core character concept or their current skill tree at all.

(Note: When I say "character concept" here, I'm talking about their core playstyle identity, not necessarily the lore.)

Sometimes, a new mechanic is praised even if it deviates from the original concept—but that usually only happens when an Affinity is truly innovative and opens up entirely new playstyles. However, I can confidently say that the current Shadow Affinity is not innovative, nor does it offer any potential for new playstyles.

Does getting a built-in Lazy Forager and item duplication drastically change how you play? Not really. They are just slightly convenient buffs. Your actual playstyle probably won't change much at all.

Besides, why does a character who already relies on the Circuit system for buffs need an entirely separate, unrelated system just to get more buffs? There is no real innovation here. If you ask me, the Heart slot is basically just a "Delta Circuit." If they wanted to make a Delta Circuit, they should have finished fleshing out the Gamma Circuits first.

Furthermore, it just doesn't feel right thematically. An Affinity where you equip shadow items to level up and gain various shadow-related buffs? That sounds like a perfect mechanic for Maxwell. There is absolutely no reason for this to be a WX skill.

At their core, WX's character concept—and the fun of playing them—has always been about freely choosing your playstyle by creating situational builds using various circuits. You could even say that every unique combination of circuits is a playstyle in itself. I really wish the Affinities didn't feel disconnected, but instead added new playstyle options that directly supported this traditional concept.

I'm still really hoping that the Affinities eventually get properly integrated as new Circuits or as part of the Chassis system.

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post.

[Terra_cat]

i do think there should be other sidegrades and upgrades with other shadow-related items (pure horror, dreadstone, thulecite, maybe even beard hair or living logs as an alternative to the first stage, etc.) to make the inject slot a lot more adaptive and different from player to player. i do like the lazy forager and safer boulderbough and hex but has felt a little small compared to other chassis upgrades, and i think even if it doesnt become a true delta slot just giving more injections with different bonuses would help it feel more present. 

13 minutes ago, KINOTAKO said:

Furthermore, it just doesn't feel right thematically. An Affinity where you equip shadow items to level up and gain various shadow-related buffs? That sounds like a perfect mechanic for Maxwell. There is absolutely no reason for this to be a WX skill.

i think it could be a perfect mechanic for both. thematically, you would expect Maxwell to be the one that has it, yes, but WX's whole thing is kind of upgrading using the environment (and biodata, of course, though this affinity lacks that requirement). Besides, i would hope for them to do something similar to Wormwood's alignment for Maxwell, where there's only shadow alignment but theres a lot of options for what upgrades youll get from it.

 

17 minutes ago, KINOTAKO said:

I'm still really hoping that the Affinities eventually get properly integrated as new Circuits or as part of the Chassis system.

I admit i kinda wish the lunar affinity was implemented as a gamma or delta circuit (both to make it less expensive, as it would be able to be reused, and to make it also provide some small buff to encourage making it before you have gestalt access. and also if it was a delta circuit and not a gamma circuit to add more effects to choose from besides clone army, of course). And it would really only make sense to do the same for shadow affinity's effects.

[Jakepeng99]

Winona's shadow side is similar in how it doesnt relate to her tech at all, but the main difference is that its a whole other side of Winona.

She does have lore to support it, but its cool that Winona's affinity expands on the Charlie thing and makes her a Warlock which is fun. I dont have much to ssy that you havent, the skill perks to me feel like post riff item perks crafted at an alter.

[Pig and beefalo]

Regarding the aspect of shadow affinity, you can refer to the suggestions of this user. They are very interesting.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/170826-a-bit-more-love-for-shadow-wx/

 

As for the aspect of moon affinity, I recommend referring to my suggestions. I think they are quite comprehensive

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/170822-a-collection-of-suggestions-for-wx（it-contains-four-suggestions-about-wx）/

Edited Tuesday at 04:40 PM by Pig and beefalo

[KINOTAKO]

42 minutes ago, Terra_cat said:

デルタ回路として実装されていたらよかったのにと思っています

If they actually added Delta Circuits on top of everything else, the current battery system would completely implode lol.

[Dingle]

How many greek letters are there?

42 minutes ago, KINOTAKO said:

If they actually added Delta Circuits on top of everything else, the current battery system would completely implode lol.

 

[YouKnowWho142]

16 minutes ago, Dingle said:

How many greek letters are there?

 

Enough to make an alphabet

[HowlVoid]

This should of been given to wormwood. living logs + extra gems, as well as getting more uses from star caller staves would have been nice. The lunar critter affinity tree is too bloated, all three could be merged into one skill and then be given this.

[Malfario]

5 hours ago, KINOTAKO said:

I can confidently say that the current Shadow Affinity is not innovative, nor does it offer any potential for new playstyles

I dont know, infinite dupes of any gear in the game including deconstruction stuff seems really innovative and it opens a lot fo new playstyle. I agree the shadow affinity seems a bit off thematically with the rest of the tree but i dont think thats a bad thing on its own, its a gift of the shadow queen , integrating your chasis with dark powers for various effects. Its an outcast for sure but i dont think its disruptive.

Honestly, i get the affinity is not what you wanted but all that you are describing is personal taste (nothing wrong with your complaints but they arent objective failures on the desing), you say the mechaninc of pluging shadow materials fits maxwell more than wx, does transmuting shadow materials feel also disconected to wilson ? are shadow flames disruptive to willow ? does it relate to anything on wurts gameplay to have a staff that can cojure shadow turf ? All the characters have an aspect of their gameplay translated to be shadow or lunnar themed and its usually a stand alone ability, Wx main mechanic, plugging circuits, is translated to the shadow asthetic as pluging shadow materials, each mat being an improved version like the circuits are. 

Again, you have all the right in the world to complaint about whatever you want, but i think its important we separate objective failures within the character from persoanl criticism on what we would have prefered or what and how we think it could have been done better. 

[YouKnowWho142]

2 minutes ago, Malfario said:

I dont know, infinite dupes of any gear in the game including deconstruction stuff seems really innovative and it opens a lot fo new playstyle. I agree the shadow affinity seems a bit off thematically with the rest of the tree but i dont think thats a bad thing on its own, its a gift of the shadow queen , integrating your chasis with dark powers for various effects. Its an outcast for sure but i dont think its disruptive.

Honestly, i get the affinity is not what you wanted but all that you are describing is personal taste (nothing wrong with your complaints but they arent objective failures on the desing), you say the mechaninc of pluging shadow materials fits maxwell more than wx, does transmuting shadow materials feel also disconected to wilson ? are shadow flames disruptive to willow ? does it relate to anything on wurts gameplay to have a staff that can cojure shadow turf ? All the characters have an aspect of their gameplay translated to be shadow or lunnar themed and its usually a stand alone ability, Wx main mechanic, plugging circuits, is translated to the shadow asthetic as pluging shadow materials, each mat being an improved version like the circuits are. 

Again, you have all the right in the world to complaint about whatever you want, but i think its important we separate objective failures within the character from persoanl criticism on what we would have prefered or what and how we think it could have been done better. 

this is extremely well said, i couldnt have put it in words any better

Edited Tuesday at 09:38 PM by YouKnowWho142

[Well-met]

mecha walker pleas

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

This should have been given to wormwood. living logs + extra gems, as well as getting more uses from star caller staves would have been nice. The lunar critter affinity tree is too bloated, all three could be merged into one skill and then be given this.

Nah the critter tree is some of the best skills.

Anyway Wormwood being shadow would be weird though the atrium spawning resources would fit it if he had one.

59 minutes ago, Malfario said:

dont know, infinite dupes of any gear in the game including deconstruction stuff seems really innovative and it opens a lot fo new playstyle. I agree the shadow affinity seems a bit off thematically with the rest of the tree but i dont think thats a bad thing on its own, its a gift of the shadow queen , integrating your chasis with dark powers for various effects. Its an outcast for sure but i dont think its disruptive.

I think it’s innovative and really cool but believe it fits much more as a structure post riff.

1 hour ago, Malfario said:

Honestly, i get the affinity is not what you wanted but all that you are describing is personal taste (nothing wrong with your complaints but they arent objective failures on the desing), you say the mechaninc of pluging shadow materials fits maxwell more than wx, does transmuting shadow materials feel also disconected to wilson ? are shadow flames disruptive to willow ? does it relate to anything on wurts gameplay to have a staff that can cojure shadow turf ? All the characters have an aspect of their gameplay translated to be shadow or lunnar themed and its usually a stand alone ability, Wx main mechanic, plugging circuits, is translated to the shadow asthetic as pluging shadow materials, each mat being an improved version like the circuits are. 

All of those character skills combine existing perks with shadow. Shadow and flames. Merms and shadows. The transmutation thing and shadows (I guess).

[YouKnowWho142]

8 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

All of those character skills combine existing perks with shadow. Shadow and flames. Merms and shadows. The transmutation thing and shadows (I guess).

And so adding shadow components to your circuit board and empowering your chassis isn't combining existing perks?

 

[Hollow soul 3]

No where near as disappointing as wortox's.

[Baark0]

2 hours ago, Malfario said:

I dont know, infinite dupes of any gear in the game including deconstruction stuff seems really innovative and it opens a lot fo new playstyle.

If you think about it, it really isn't that impactful. You gain access to it pretty late in progression, which also happens to be the point in the game where equipment becomes repairable, so having extra copies of armor/weapons/tools just isn't all that useful. I spent a while trying to think up of some good uses, and the best I could come up with was infinitely duping napsacks/scaled flooring for infinite shroom skin/scales, and duping shadow mauls to give to other players and to have backups of in the likely chance that you forget to repair it and it breaks (but this is more of a bandaid fix for something that klei really shouldve changed by now).

The main issue I have with the skill is that it doesn't do anything that you couldn't already do just by spending time gathering resources and crafting more items, which for an affinity skill, is pretty disappointing.

[YouKnowWho142]

20 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

The main issue I have with the skill is that it doesn't do anything that you couldn't already do just by spending time gathering resources and crafting more items, which for an affinity skill, is pretty disappointing.

Wolfgang's double damage isn't impactful because you can play wilson and just kill them eventually anyways. Maxwell minions aren't impactful at harvesting since you can chop those trees yourself anyways. Teleports aren't impactful because you will eventually make it to your target destination anyways. What's the point in Lucy when you can craft an axe with a single stick and a flint? Or, I guess Wormwood's entire character is worthless since you can just farm treeguards or any of his farming benefits can be replicated through various items.

The point is that it's another way to do it that's distinct and unique to these characters. I like that shadow affinity offers something simple yet effective to people who don't want to stress over the lunar affinity which is absurdly complicated, while still offering something other characters cannot do. The shadow affinity offers several different effects that benefits many different types of players. I think the hate for shadow affinity is way overblown.

[reddocc]

the automated farms are not fitting for the souless automaton 

Edited Wednesday at 12:40 AM by reddocc

[HowlVoid]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Nah the critter tree is some of the best skills.

Anyway Wormwood being shadow would be weird though the atrium spawning resources would fit it if he had one.

 

I dont think you read what i wrote, i didnt say anything bad about them.

[David808]

42 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

duping napsacks/scaled flooring for infinite shroom skin/scales

You can't dupe anything other than equipments.

44 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

duping shadow mauls to give to other players

The game doesn't let you use mimicked equipments if you don't have possessed shadow atrium inside yourself.

 

46 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

The main issue I have with the skill is that it doesn't do anything that you couldn't already do just by spending time gathering resources and crafting more items, which for an affinity skill, is pretty disappointing.

I think it's the same with all of shadow affinity's perks. Except +25% more dmg i guess.

[Seero]

im fine with the resource gathering perk i just don't know why the wheel needs to be reinvented for it. why the little shadow worm thing where you can just like
have a nearby grass/twig just poof in your inventory instantly everytime you pick something

 

[David808]

Also i just realized while testing, mimicked items disappear after some time(2 days i think?) and drop the mimicreep.

[doritosdamafia]

Just now, David808 said:

Also i just realized while testing, mimicked items disappear after some time(2 days i think?) and drop the mimicreep.

aren't that just the behavior of the mimics?

[Baark0]

1 minute ago, David808 said:

You can't dupe anything other than equipments.

you dupe green staves and then deconstruct napsacks/scaled flooring with those staves.

1 minute ago, David808 said:

The game doesn't let you use mimicked equipments if you don't have possessed shadow atrium inside yourself.

oh right i forgot about that, so its even less useful.

[David808]

1 minute ago, doritosdamafia said:

aren't that just the behavior of the mimics?

oh my bad then 

Edited Wednesday at 12:58 AM by David808

[doritosdamafia]

4 minutes ago, David808 said:

You can't dupe anything other than equipments.

 

i think they mean, duplicanting the green amulet and staff to do that practically for free

1 minute ago, Baark0 said:

you dupe green staves and then deconstruct napsacks/scaled flooring with those staves.

oh right i forgot about that, so its even less useful.

you can share your maul to a shadow wx so he an get one for free