[Game Update] - 719857

[ZeRoboButler]

oh neat, new music for the menu!

(Also no gamma circuits yet... My impatience absolutely killing me but I will wait)

 

[gamehun20]

Right so another beta patch release, no Gamma circuits sadly but that's just how things are. Loving the changes to the circuit bars! I like the bronze/silver/gold coloring and the various spikes, however i rather dislike the colors chosen for the base of the circuits. They are really bright almost reaching 255 colors. I would prefer if they were more dull? more darker or grayer or maybe even use the aforementioned circuit bar colors, that would look a bit more natural personally. Now something i put off for a bit and i don't want to hurt the artist who drew this but the Expansive Storage Unit icon looks... well a little basic? Reminds me of a NGU Industries sprite .  Compared to other inventory storages I feel the lines are too thick and there's not really any texture/shading? Only the icon tho, the UI for both the Unit and the Chassis looks great! also i like the indicator that it's powered! I hope a way to make it movable again is discovered because i really like the idea of being able to make specific slots infinite. Love the menu music too! Best regards to everyone who worked on this beta, keep up the good work!

Edited March 28 by gamehun20

[Kondr_]

i was surprised winnona do not need wires for her crafts.

now we do have wx-78.
gears, doodad, scrap, wires. mb treat them as wormwood treats fertilizers - different effects. special crafts utilising this would also be nice. (right now wires is hard to renew in pre fuelweaver)

upd: forgot Auto-Mat-O-Chanic

[gamehun20]

15 minutes ago, Kondr_ said:

wires

What requires wires?

[AliceShiki]

4 hours ago, Soul7k said:

• deerclops doing 75 damage a hit will kill you in 3.3 hits.
• at 5% you will take 73 damage dying at 3.47 hits
• at 15% it will do 66 killing you in 3.7 hits.
• no matter what you will die in 4 hits.
• this is even less noticeable with smaller numbers after armor mitigation and other bosses that hit harder

I honestly don't see much point in these numbers, tbh.

I mean, boss numbers without armor are completely irrealistic, since you're always wearing armor for boss fights.

Also, healing food exists, so taking less damage does add up as you use healing items. Less damage taken means you'll need to spend less healing items on a fight... And I'm not sure if this is how it works, since I haven't tested it, but I imagine it also means you lose less Armor Durability too.

[hhhhddh]

5 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

I imagine it also means you lose less Armor Durability too.

no, armour from hardy circuit calculated last. for example you're wearing wood armor and pluging 2 super-hardy circuit (which provides 10% armour), and get 100 dmg, wood armor take its 80%(80dmg), and 20 dmg left calculates hardy armour, make 18 dmg to health. it won't reduce armor durability loss.

(I say last but not including shield from beanbooster, shield calculate after hardy armour, shield is kinda special hp)

 

[Soul7k]

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

I honestly don't see much point in these numbers, tbh.

I mean, boss numbers without armor are completely irrealistic, since you're always wearing armor for boss fights.

Also, healing food exists, so taking less damage does add up as you use healing items. Less damage taken means you'll need to spend less healing items on a fight... And I'm not sure if this is how it works, since I haven't tested it, but I imagine it also means you lose less Armor Durability too.

the damage reduction happens after the armor takes the hit. it means that 5% doesn't do much, but if you are wearing armor which you should be then using deerclops as the example again

• 80% dr to 75 is 15 damage. reduced by 5% is .75 shaved off
• 90% dr brings it down to 7.5 reduced by 5% is .375 damage shaved off

it takes even more to shave off one full point of damage when armor is taken into consideration. you likely will not notice it

Spoiler

if you want to plug in other boss values this leaves you with

• [planar damage taken after reduction + (damage reduction from armor x damage taken)] x .05
•  (damage reduction from armor x damage taken) x .05
  • dr values from armor: 0.4(60%), 0.3(70%), 0.2(80%), 0.1 (90%), 0.05(95%)

 

Edited March 28 by Soul7k

[sghr]

29 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

说实话，我觉得这些数字意义不大。

我的意思是，不穿盔甲的boss数值完全不现实，因为boss战中你总是要穿盔甲的。

此外，还有回复食物，所以减少受到的伤害确实能通过治疗道具的使用累积起来。受到的伤害越少，战斗中需要消耗的治疗道具也就越少……我不确定这是否真的如此运作，因为我没有测试过，但我猜想这也意味着你损失的护甲耐久度也会更少。

wx78  can't lose less Armor Durability.Ó⁠╭⁠╮⁠Ò

[Kondr_]

37 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

What requires wires?

right now it is only  Nautopilot beacon and kit

[flamboyant wolf]

8 hours ago, V2C said:

We're still working on the remaining skills, but next week we will also put some focus on retuning the current Circuits.  To be honest, it is very likely that we will be adjusting down their effects overall.  It may not be a popular change immediately, but we feel some rebalancing is necessary, and the sooner we can get feedback on it the better.

ooh! well this is intriguing, nice to see, nice to see.

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, viblym said:

just kinda miffed abt the idea of them tuning down some circuits when Wx still doesn't have any substantial gameplay. like aw. their gimmick can't even justify itself, sure whatever make the damage reduction on hardy absolutely nothing but their other circuits? None of them even really stand out to me as "overpowered" in any capacity. People like speed but that's just because it's speed. Not making any headway with WX at all if we're gonna keep tripping up over if they should be good at the one thing that they do. Maybe I sound melodramatic. But work with me here. The only time I've ever gotten the electrification blast to proc was against Bee Queen (The most annoying boss ever) despite trying to get it to deliberately trigger against things like hound waves and monkeys and other various crowd control situations where having something like that would even Be useful. At least right now most circuits feel satisfying enough in having utility on their own without stacking multiple. (Rangebooster... I don't like rangebooster.) 

Also NOOOOO BEANBOOSTER LOST ITS CROWN I'M SO DISTRESSED

With two Sainity circuits you won’t ever go insane.

With two hunger circuits you won’t ever starve.

All 3 and that stat basically doesn’t exist. You can survive around 60 days without eating, only needing to eat a seed a day. You can stand next to 10 nightmare ramparts (which have a -1200 Sainity aura) and only lose around 80 Sainity a minute.

Beanbooster comes with the Sainity perk, and is also really really efficient at giving free healing plus a sheild.

Health circuit is still good after the substantial nerf. 17.5% damage reduction and over 400 health if you max it, it would still take ages for you to die. It also synergies with the Beanbooster sheild though right now I feel Beanbooster gives more value. Even if something gets heavy nerfs, it doesnt mean it’s bad. (Maxwell got massive nerfs during the middle his rework and look at him).

The main thing is that the skilltree made Alpha Circuits and Beta circuits have their own slots, basically more than doubling his power. Soon they will add a 3rd slot, and none of this involves his skilltree power yet. The old circuit values would probably have been more fair if he still had one slot for everything.

1 hour ago, Kondr_ said:

right now it is only  Nautopilot beacon and kit

Also Walter’s scrappy slingshot upgrade.

[Malfario]

9 hours ago, V2C said:

but we feel some rebalancing is necessary

I have done a short run as Wx as well as play as them on my current megabase for the good part of three seasons, trying to check all the circuit posibilities. On its current state i found out the balance between all the circuits and their new separation in three plug layouts to be exceptional. Without acounting the skilltree aditional perks i think the current state between all circuits its greatly balanced, there isnt universally usefull set ups and there is a great variety of layout depending on what the player values and having to change btween diferent set ups adds a lot of layers of complexity to wx gameplay, constantly having to farm biodata, been carefull of the timing for when you unplug circuits etc.

I feel like mentioning this because i cant see why the circuits in their current state would need to be tunned down, I am a big advocate to not critice a change untill you personally test it, judging features having nothing but a vage description of what it does seems silly and unmature. But i am worried that the nerfs to the circuits, will bring WX back to the pre skilltree state, just that now, instead of plugging 2-3 circuits for some decent effects, now you will need to plug and mantain 5-10 circuits for more or less the same effect.

The separation of circuits into three bars, has made Wx gameplay explode in terms of fun and creativity, i dont wanna see it become an aditional step to achieve the same we could do before, and yes i know we are getting extra skills with the skilltree, but its been only said that the circuits will probably be tunned down, nothing about the skills been improved upon. The only info we have is that the current state of Wx is pending for balance, not how drastic will it be, and in my experience if anything is that the circuits without skills are perfect(as in buffing them would be to much, and nerfing them would be detrimental), and the buffs provided by the skills need to be, a bit more impactfull if anyhting else.

That´s all, i normally like to restrain myself from talking about anything that isnt strictly direct feedback upon released content, But i think its important that we all comunicate or perceptions to the devs, and so i hope this is usefull.

19 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

With two Sainity circuits you won’t ever go insane.

With two hunger circuits you won’t ever starve.

All 3 and that stat basically doesn’t exist. You can survive around 60 days without eating, only needing to eat a seed a day. You can stand next to 10 nightmare ramparts (which have a -1200 Sainity aura) and only lose around 80 Sainity a minute.

Beanbooster comes with the Sainity perk, and is also really really efficient at giving free healing plus a sheild.

Health circuit is still good after the substantial nerf. 17.5% damage reduction and over 400 health if you max it, it would still take ages for you to die. It also synergies with the Beanbooster sheild though right now I feel Beanbooster gives more value. Even if something gets heavy nerfs, it doesnt mean it’s bad. (Maxwell got massive nerfs during the middle his rework and look at him).

The main thing is that the skilltree made Alpha Circuits and Beta circuits have their own slots, basically more than doubling his power. Soon they will add a 3rd slot, and none of this involves his skilltree power yet. The old circuit values would probably have been more fair if he still had one slot for everything.

Also Walter’s scrappy slingshot upgrade.

I think you are forgeting the inherit balance that comes from not been anle to have all of that at once, "not having to eat in 60 days" comes at the price of having 33% less sanity and health than the average character. there is abalance between all the alpha circuits because it sabout what you give up and what you enhance, and diferent stages of the game will call for diferent layouts for diferent players.

I think we should start giving feedback as a result of playing the game, and not treating betas like thought experiments, instead of "this ability is intrinsicly unbalanced" lets apreciate the context within that ability takes place, what does it really serve ? what scenarios does it create ? how impactfull is it really ? what did you give up in orther to achieve it ?

"2 processing circuits will make you never go insane" yeah buddy thats equally as bad as being insane all the time, you want to be insane most of the time until rifts are up for nightmare fuel, but you also wanna have wigle room to reliably control when are you sane, So yes processing circuits can almost overcome sanity, but that doesnt take away sanity its still impactfull in wx gameplay. And even then it creates an interesting scenario because if wx can avoid sanity for the most part, that makes them a fitting character to use glass cutters instead, which also makes them have a motif to complete the celestial quest first wich also varies in a million of other interesting decisions when playing as them.

I just whish we could all be a little less reductionistic, and not try to justify our visions for what a character should be by asking for none stop limitations on them

[rabbit1324]

29 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

With two Sainity circuits you won’t ever go insane.

With two hunger circuits you won’t ever starve.

All 3 and that stat basically doesn’t exist. You can survive around 60 days without eating, only needing to eat a seed a day. You can stand next to 10 nightmare ramparts (which have a -1200 Sainity aura) and only lose around 80 Sainity a minute.

Beanbooster comes with the Sainity perk, and is also really really efficient at giving free healing plus a sheild.

Health circuit is still good after the substantial nerf. 17.5% damage reduction and over 400 health if you max it, it would still take ages for you to die. It also synergies with the Beanbooster sheild though right now I feel Beanbooster gives more value. Even if something gets heavy nerfs, it doesnt mean it’s bad. (Maxwell got massive nerfs during the middle his rework and look at him).

The main thing is that the skilltree made Alpha Circuits and Beta circuits have their own slots, basically more than doubling his power. Soon they will add a 3rd slot, and none of this involves his skilltree power yet. The old circuit values would probably have been more fair if he still had one slot for everything.

Also Walter’s scrappy slingshot upgrade.

I agree. Rather than adjusting individual circuit balance, it would probably be better to revert the slot system itself.

[qwp18]

10 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, we've been trying to finish up some of the more tech heavy changes needed, especially with the Spatializer Circuit, to get that out in a hotfix before the weekend.  We're still working on the remaining skills, but next week we will also put some focus on retuning the current Circuits.  To be honest, it is very likely that we will be adjusting down their effects overall.  It may not be a popular change immediately, but we feel some rebalancing is necessary, and the sooner we can get feedback on it the better.

This is the type of transparency i adore klei for. F*ck yes dude, will always praise it because i always love it, talking to players like people is the best ❤️

[Kacpert25]

10 hours ago, V2C said:

Roto-Mapper can now be selected even if it is out of range from WX-78, but can only be sent back to destinations within range.

Not mentioned change.

[JazzyGames]

Appreciate the transparency. I don’t think tuning down the circuit effects in general is gonna be a bad thing, especially if we are expecting new, stronger affinities and gammas (which remember, will get their own 6/7 slots).

The effects of the alpha circuits in particular make for a style of gameplay that frankly feels incredibly casual, possibly one of the safest character experiences I’ve ever had in DST. With a single hardy circuit I was startled by how little health I would lose from a mutant boss, and by the end of the fight my health had already regenerated, with beanbooster shield restored.

Also I’m just gonna say it…I miss eating. The super gastro circuit made me put down my polar bin for the first time ever. I didn’t even get around to eating gears. Stats were just always maxed out.

I support adding a bit more risk back to WX; I don’t think it will detract from the experience, especially if we’re about to get new powerful skills.

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Malfario said:

I have done a short run as Wx as well as play as them on my current megabase for the good part of three seasons, trying to check all the circuit posibilities. On its current state i found out the balance between all the circuits and their new separation in three plug layouts to be exceptional. Without acounting the skilltree aditional perks i think the current state between all circuits its greatly balanced, there isnt universally usefull set ups and there is a great variety of layout depending on what the player values and having to change btween diferent set ups adds a lot of layers of complexity to wx gameplay, constantly having to farm biodata, been carefull of the timing for when you unplug circuits etc.

I feel like mentioning this because i cant see why the circuits in their current state would need to be tunned down, I am a big advocate to not critice a change untill you personally test it, judging features having nothing but a vage description of what it does seems silly and unmature. But i am worried that the nerfs to the circuits, will bring WX back to the pre skilltree state, just that now, instead of plugging 2-3 circuits for some decent effects, now you will need to plug and mantain 5-10 circuits for more or less the same effect.

The separation of circuits into three bars, has made Wx gameplay explode in terms of fun and creativity, i dont wanna see it become an aditional step to achieve the same we could do before, and yes i know we are getting extra skills with the skilltree, but its been only said that the circuits will probably be tunned down, nothing about the skills been improved upon. The only info we have is that the current state of Wx is pending for balance, not how drastic will it be, and in my experience if anything is that the circuits without skills are perfect(as in buffing them would be to much, and nerfing them would be detrimental), and the buffs provided by the skills need to be, a bit more impactfull if anyhting else.

That´s all, i normally like to restrain myself from talking about anything that isnt strictly direct feedback upon released content, But i think its important that we all comunicate or perceptions to the devs, and so i hope this is usefull.

I think you are forgeting the inherit balance that comes from not been anle to have all of that at once, "not having to eat in 60 days" comes at the price of having 33% less sanity and health than the average character. there is abalance between all the alpha circuits because it sabout what you give up and what you enhance, and diferent stages of the game will call for diferent layouts for diferent players.

I think we should start giving feedback as a result of playing the game, and not treating betas like thought experiments, instead of "this ability is intrinsicly unbalanced" lets apreciate the context within that ability takes place, what does it really serve ? what scenarios does it create ? how impactfull is it really ? what did you give up in orther to achieve it ?

"2 processing circuits will make you never go insane" yeah buddy thats equally as bad as being insane all the time, you want to be insane most of the time until rifts are up for nightmare fuel, but you also wanna have wigle room to reliably control when are you sane, So yes processing circuits can almost overcome sanity, but that doesnt take away sanity its still impactfull in wx gameplay. And even then it creates an interesting scenario because if wx can avoid sanity for the most part, that makes them a fitting character to use glass cutters instead, which also makes them have a motif to complete the celestial quest first wich also varies in a million of other interesting decisions when playing as them.

I just whish we could all be a little less reductionistic, and not try to justify our visions for what a character should be by asking for none stop limitations on them

Having 100 base hunger or sainity isnt the biggest deal especially since you can have 1 health, 1 hunger, and 1 beanbooster. Saying never going insane is a downside is wrong and really cherry picking when you can just unplug it if you want nightmare fuel. Never being able to go insane in boss fights and stuff like the ruins is rather massive. Its current balancing is too high in one direction.

The circuits have reasons to use over each other, main problem is the power of WX himself. His power has been doubled, and soon will be tripled and thats without any skills. He wasnt too strong to begin with but it is huge buffs that will need some compensation since he is so versitile, and top teir powerful at all the things he can achieve. Hes the best at what he chooses, or jack of all trades, still master of them all.

Edited March 28 by Jakepeng99

[whiteking]

Even if one believes that the strength of wx78 is too high, it would definitely be a mistake to consider weakening the existing circuit when the gamma circuit has not yet been determined. If weakened, those who have low expectations for the gamma circuit will oppose it; if not weakened, those who believe the gamma circuit is too strong will also oppose it.

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Soul7k said:

the damage reduction happens after the armor takes the hit. it means that 5% doesn't do much, but if you are wearing armor which you should be then using deerclops as the example again

• 80% dr to 75 is 15 damage. reduced by 5% is .75 shaved off
• 90% dr brings it down to 7.5 reduced by 5% is .375 damage shaved off

it takes even more to shave off one full point of damage when armor is taken into consideration. you likely will not notice it

0.375 is 1 or 0? I haven't tested it, so I dunno how the game rounds it.

If it's 1, then it's pretty good.

As for not noticing it, that's pretty normal stuff. Doesn't mean it isn't useful.

If the game actually works with decimals, then it just means you need to be hit 21 times to take the damage of 20 hits... Dunno about you, but being hit 20+ times sounds pretty normal to me on hard bosses , so it's definitely making a difference.

A shame it doesn't reduce durability loss though, that would have been nice.

Edited March 28 by AliceShiki

[hhhhddh]

14 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

0.375 is 1 or 0? I haven't tested it, so I dunno how the game rounds it.

If it's 1, then it's pretty good.

As for not noticing it, that's pretty normal stuff. Doesn't mean it isn't useful.

If the game actually works with decimals, then it just means you need to be hit 21 times to take the damage of 20 hits... Dunno about you, but being hit 20+ times sounds pretty normal to me on hard bosses , so it's definitely making a difference.

A shame it doesn't reduce durability loss though, that would have been nice.

it's exact 0.375. Actually if klei make it can reduce durability loss it will be good as 5%, but it's not so in my opinion last version(10% per circuit) is better.

[Terra_cat]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Having 100 base hunger or sainity isnt the biggest deal especially since you can have 1 health, 1 hunger, and 1 beanbooster. Saying never going insane is a downside is wrong and really cherry picking when you can just unplug it if you want nightmare fuel. Never being able to go insane in boss fights and stuff like the ruins is rather massive. Its current balancing is too high in one direction.

The circuits have reasons to use over each other, main problem is the power of WX himself. His power has been doubled, and soon will be tripled and thats without any skills. He wasnt too strong to begin with but it is huge buffs that will need some compensation since he is so versitile, and top teir powerful at all the things he can achieve. Hes the best at what he chooses, or jack of all trades, still master of them all.

unplugging a beanbooster does come with drawbacks though because unlike a regular super processing youll eventually run out of royal jelly (especially since it spoils) and need to fight bee queen again. itll be a while especially with the insight that decreases durability loss from unplugging, but it is still a reasonable concern. theres also 2 bosses and traversing the atrium in general that require you to be insane part of the time, but obviously theyre late enough to just use nightmare amulet - and this ideology can be extended to all insanity stuff with the resources for them to spare (or you could just eat a ton of green/blue caps).

as others and even i have said, it's too tricky to do these balance changes BEFORE we have gamma because we dont know their power will ACTUALLY be tripled (gamma could be less impactful than the alpha and beta setups, and i wouldnt be surprised if it is because of how stacked beta's variety is and how alpha fully covers the stat department). In its current state I wouldnt be completely opposed to decreasing the numbers on alpha circuits but how extreme it should go is indeterminable until we know what we're actually working with.

[Jopni_Landish]

It's a bit of a sadness that the skills (at least for now) don't give the WX-78 any interesting interactions with other mechanical objects like scrap. It would be great if it could eat different items and receive different buffs from them. I'm also curious about how they plan to weaken the existing circuits. None of the circuits are particularly unbalanced, even considering the addition of seven slots for gamma. Players often talk about the acceleration circuit being too powerful, but if you're playing as a farmer on the base, you don't need that speed. On the contrary, the uselessness of one of the circuits is more confusing. The bean-boost is the most difficult and expensive circuit to create, and its effect is quite weak. It's much easier to insert 1 health 2.0 circuit and 1 sanity circuit and not waste resources

[Kvetevk]

16 hours ago, Kacpert25 said:

why does yours look different than mine?

[Kacpert25]

21 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

why does yours look different than mine?

B.U.D.D.Y. has a customizable appearance. Changing parts of the radio in the Expectamus Puzzle also changes the radio's appearance in-game.

[Kvetevk]

7 minutes ago, Kacpert25 said:

B.U.D.D.Y. has a customizable appearance. Changing parts of the radio in the Expectamus Puzzle also changes the radio's appearance in-game.

ooh that is nice to know, so there are a lot of options, I really like that
also I like that Klei made is as its own item instead of a reskin

Edited March 28 by Kvetevk