Wolfgang is the strongest survivor in the Constant. So why does getting strong feel like a chore?

[Gashzer]

7 minutes ago, KZtyler said:

 People self declaring as the "correct" ones in a conversation always amuse me.

Your courage idea for wolfgang is bad.

The best idea i could salvage from your bad idea is keeping the mightiness meter the same as now but instead of it draining faster at low hunger its tied to sanity instead, draining faster at lower sanity to go with along with wolfgang's scared personality or "fear spiral" as you call it.

But making him rewarded by kiting is bad, wolfgang is not scared of getting hurt like walter, wolfgangs fears are irrational as he is this massive powerful man. If anything getting hit should break his irrational fears and make him less scared and stronger. Like the inverse of Walter.

Edited March 11 by Gashzer

[KZtyler]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Your courage idea for wolfgang is bad.

The best idea i could salvage from your bad idea is keeping the mightiness meter the same as now but instead of it draining faster at low hunger its tied to sanity instead, draining faster at lower sanity to go with along with wolfgang's scared personality or "fear spiral" as you call it.

But making him rewarded by kiting is bad, wolfgang is not scared of getting hurt like walter, wolfgangs fears are irrational as he is this massive powerful man. If anything getting hit should break his irrational fears and make him less scared and stronger. Like the inverse of Walter.

"Your idea is bad"
proceeds to suggest to make the stronger character in the game who can tank all damage with unrestricted movement with marble armor EVEN STRONGER WHEN HIT.

🤣

[Gashzer]

 

7 minutes ago, KZtyler said:

"Your idea is bad"
proceeds to suggest to make the stronger character in the game who can tank all damage with unrestricted movement with marble armor EVEN STRONGER WHEN HIT.

🤣

No i suggested a nerf in the form of tying mightiness to sanity, because wolfgang players love running around at zero sanity, lets punish them for it.

I was explaining thematically why your courage idea makes no sense, if i was irrationally scared of a mouse then a mouse actually bit me and it wasnt that hurtful at all. Then surely that irrational fear would go, would it not?

Just admit it, you gave no actual thought to your idea other than gameplay. Might as well be a modded character with no consistency.

Edited March 11 by Gashzer

[KZtyler]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

 

No i suggested a nerf in the form of tying mightiness to sanity, because wolfgang players love running around at zero sanity, lets punish them for it.

I was explaining thematically why your courage idea makes no sense, if i was irrationally scared of a mouse then a mouse actually bit me and it wasnt that hurtful at all. Then surely that irrational fear would go, would it not?

Just admit it, you gave no actual thought to your idea other than gameplay. Might as well be a modded character with no consistency.

Yes I'm sure that a person with arachnophobia would suddenly stop being afraid when bitten by a spider, because that totally makes sense. 
Let's check what google says:
```
A person with arachnophobia who gets bitten by a spider will likely experience an intense panic attack, severe anxiety, or hysteria, alongside physical symptoms of a bite like pain, redness, or swelling. The extreme fear can intensify the pain and cause a racing heart, trembling, or vomiting. While most bites are mild, the phobia makes the event traumatic, requiring calm medical evaluation to distinguish from rare, dangerous bites.
```

Oh who would've thought 

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, KZtyler said:

Yes I'm sure that a person with arachnophobia would suddenly stop being afraid when bitten by a spider, because that totally makes sense. 
Let's check what google says:
```
A person with arachnophobia who gets bitten by a spider will likely experience an intense panic attack, severe anxiety, or hysteria, alongside physical symptoms of a bite like pain, redness, or swelling. The extreme fear can intensify the pain and cause a racing heart, trembling, or vomiting. While most bites are mild, the phobia makes the event traumatic, requiring calm medical evaluation to distinguish from rare, dangerous bites.
```

Oh who would've thought 

Wolfgang doesnt have that tho. And we already have the idea of courage tied to Walter the fearless.

 

[aidancode]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Mightiness is the correct downside, old wolfgang needing to stuff his face every 2 secs in an attempt to stay at 2x damage and moving faster made zero thematic sense for a strongman.

If i had to make a change i would make mightiness decay exponentially faster if you are not holding a dumbell or doing "work" the same way woodies wereforms drain faster and faster... maybe not to the same extreme but you get what i mean.

I respect the concept but I don't think the current solution is particularly in theme for the cowardly strongman Wolfgang is either. If anything the crafting qol beta that made Wolfgang lose mightiness when hit would be the closest fit to the archetype Wolfgang is going for. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you picture Wolfgang's gameplay loop as being able to do things faster than the default character, but requiring maintainence and becoming notably underpowered if that maintainence is not given. Is that right?

[Gashzer]

9 hours ago, aidancode said:

I respect the concept but I don't think the current solution is particularly in theme for the cowardly strongman Wolfgang is either. If anything the crafting qol beta that made Wolfgang lose mightiness when hit would be the closest fit to the archetype Wolfgang is going for.

Yes "cowardly" strongman. His mightiness should be tied to his sanity, as he loses sanity he loses mightiness and his sanity should get lower faster when closer to monsters which it already does.

There is no thematic reason why getting damage would directly lower his mightiness. If anything getting hit should lower his sanity the same as Walter but we already have Walter so that doesnt work.

9 hours ago, aidancode said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you picture Wolfgang's gameplay loop as being able to do things faster than the default character, but requiring maintainence and becoming notably underpowered if that maintainence is not given. Is that right?

Yes thats one gameplay loop that works... orrr punish wolfgang for going insane by introducing wolfgang specific monstrous horrors that have 3x the hp of terrorbeaks, do twice the damage and move ever so slightly faster that scales with movement speed boosts so you can never run from them.

But i hate the idea of having another "reward kiting mechanic" thats Wanda's thing save that for her skilltree

Edited March 12 by Gashzer

[KZtyler]

17 hours ago, aidancode said:

I respect the concept but I don't think the current solution is particularly in theme for the cowardly strongman Wolfgang is either. If anything the crafting qol beta that made Wolfgang lose mightiness when hit would be the closest fit to the archetype Wolfgang is going for. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you picture Wolfgang's gameplay loop as being able to do things faster than the default character, but requiring maintainence and becoming notably underpowered if that maintainence is not given. Is that right?

To be honest in the gameplay sense I focused on addressing what I consider the more outstanding issue with wolfgang, he is a 2x damage monster that can put on marble armor and trivialize every single boss in the game, he has insane HP, he gains mightiness by pressing F and taking 5% damage means nothing when you ignore the slow movement of using marble armor.
It seems that most people who commented on this thread never played Wolfgang or defeated all bosses with him, did you know that you can kill crab king in first phase by just hitting him and animation cancelling with your helmet? It's freaking ridiculous, you should not be able to do that...
Dragonfly is another one you just hold F and watch her melt, and I'm talking single player, with multiple people most bosses are a joke if you're wolfgang.

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, KZtyler said:

To be honest in the gameplay sense I focused on addressing what I consider the more outstanding issue with wolfgang, he is a 2x damage monster that can put on marble armor and trivialize every single boss in the game, he has insane HP, he gains mightiness by pressing F and taking 5% damage means nothing when you ignore the slow movement of using marble armor.
It seems that most people who commented on this thread never played Wolfgang or defeated all bosses with him, did you know that you can kill crab king in first phase by just hitting him and animation cancelling with your helmet? It's freaking ridiculous, you should not be able to do that...
Dragonfly is another one you just hold F and watch her melt, and I'm talking single player, with multiple people most bosses are a joke if you're wolfgang.

Yes wolfgang is powerful so lets not give him a useless downside like your courage system but an actual downside like mighty terrorbeaks that scale with wolfgangs own mightiness and increased sanity drain.

[Cruvimaster]

Poor Wolfgang. He gets more OP in the game every day.
 

 

[cybers2001]

On 3/9/2026 at 3:31 AM, Gashzer said:

No. 

Wolfgang has one of the more dangerous downsides in the game.  For example if you lose mightiness while getting chased by terrorbeaks or shadow spulmonkeys the transforming pause could end up getting you stunned locked to death or badly hurt.

Not many characters get punished so badly for not paying attention to their downsides, and wolfgang can never get rid of this either. Most characters have endgame items or ways to remove their downsides, wolfgang doesnt.

Wolfgang’s downside is made *worse* due to his rework by introducing what otherwise should have been a buff, which is gaining mightiness through fighting.

if you’re already mighty, then fighting to replenish mightiness is great. If you aren’t already mighty, and shadow creatures spawn in from a fissure or something, you’re in a unique predicament where now you’re *punished* for attacking them, as it can lead to turning mighty, stunning you in front of them. And if you get hit (which you will), this can delay your attack long enough to cause you to lose mightiness again, stunning you *again.*

This was not a problem for any other iteration of Wolfgang.

Edited March 12 by cybers2001

[aidancode]

4 hours ago, KZtyler said:

To be honest in the gameplay sense I focused on addressing what I consider the more outstanding issue with wolfgang, he is a 2x damage monster that can put on marble armor and trivialize every single boss in the game, he has insane HP, he gains mightiness by pressing F and taking 5% damage means nothing when you ignore the slow movement of using marble armor.
It seems that most people who commented on this thread never played Wolfgang or defeated all bosses with him, did you know that you can kill crab king in first phase by just hitting him and animation cancelling with your helmet? It's freaking ridiculous, you should not be able to do that...
Dragonfly is another one you just hold F and watch her melt, and I'm talking single player, with multiple people most bosses are a joke if you're wolfgang.

I think some of this is the fault of the combat system. Functionally Wolfgang's upside is really just meant to be the "pretend you're playing multiplayer in singleplayer" character, the fact that it breaks the game says more about the game than it does about Wolfgang

 

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

If you aren’t already mighty, and shadow creatures spawn in from a fissure or something, you’re in a unique predicament where now you’re *punished* for attacking them, as it can lead to turning mighty, stunning you in front of them. And if you get hit (which you will), this can delay your attack long enough to cause you to lose mightiness again, stunning you *again.*

This was not a problem for any other iteration of Wolfgang.

Interesting point. Ngl, I feel like the mightiness mechanic being a separate bar is incredibly dull design. This problem wouldn't exist if they just kept it tied to hunger instead of adding needless complexity. Not that a separate bar is inherently bad, just that it's executed poorly