Thulecite club could use a buff

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

even if you take that out of the equation the club's advantages arent much, compared to other options like hambat which is dirtcheap and can be made on command for bosses or something, or darkswords/glass cutters for accessibility. not to mention, glass cutters do 85 to any shadow without lunar affinity on characters so its better there as well (not to mention the tentacles never hit the shadows either) so its mediocre where it is made anyway.

its roles are also strange, as a makeshift worse cane, you wouldnt want to fight with it, which contrasts with its role as a weapon. you can always choose not to use it as a weapon and save it for something irregularly used but if you dont rush ruins, you have the cane, if you DO rush it then youd have to have this awful cane in your inventory with low durability. you can use it for basic pigs or bunnymen, small fights that dont last long but you can also use the pick/axe which has 800 durability, 42.5dmg and is a tool that you'd want to make anyway since youre using a gold pick in the ruins prior to crafting one anyway, plus it lasts 5 times longer with slightly lower damage (not like thulecite club's tentacles will hit moving pigs anyway, and they dont matter on spiders). for bosses if i wanted a weapon i can use a hambat which is also slightly lower cost but infinite durability, and dirtcheap as mentioned before

the topic of the post isnt to just consider the 'hard' task of inventory management and item switching to kite (not that its hard if youve played the game at all), but to compare it to its alternatives and show how it is lacking

I don't think you're demonstrating how it's lacking, everything you've listed has big downsides over the thulecite club except for glass cutters. The only thing you're showing is that glass cutters are overpowered and should be nerfed since they're so easy to craft without drawbacks.

[somethin]

This post would actually not exist if Klei decided to add a way to craft thulecite gear without having to go to the ruins 

[Hungry French]

9 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Избавляемся от раздражителя, который мешает нам получить Ридс.

Lol, tentacles almost never spawn near reeds. And there's Monkey Island.

9 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

В целом Spear можно использовать очень долго. Срок его хранения огромен... Так что я не думаю, что этот аргумент здесь уместен.

 

 

This is the most fragile weapon in the game... It breaks very quickly in DST.

9 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Они всё равно умирают довольно быстро, а броня снижает урон на 80 %, так что, если ваша броня не сломается и вас не окружат, ни один обычный моб не нанесёт вам существенного урона, пока вы в броне.

Просто слишком много защиты от урона.

This is another reason to weaken the protection of all armor by 2 or even 4 times.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 10/10/2025 at 11:01 AM, Cheggf said:

I don't think you're demonstrating how it's lacking, everything you've listed has big downsides over the thulecite club except for glass cutters. The only thing you're showing is that glass cutters are overpowered and should be nerfed since they're so easy to craft without drawbacks.

the comment wasnt really to show how its lacking, since i was only responding to a person that didnt want to assume every player would rush ruins and explained that even in best case scenario it is still lacking

[AliceShiki]

On 10/9/2025 at 11:42 PM, IAmAFurrz said:

even if you take that out of the equation the club's advantages arent much

I disagree with that, but I just wanted to point out that you were making an assumption that I don't think it's very reasonable.

On 10/9/2025 at 11:42 PM, IAmAFurrz said:

(not that its hard if youve played the game at all)

It's pretty tough to actually manage that and still react to what's happening on the screen. You not finding it hard doesn't mean it isn't hard. You really shouldn't assume most players are on the same level as you when you probably have 100x more playtime (not hyperbole) than the average player.

19 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Lol, tentacles almost never spawn near reeds. And there's Monkey Island.

This is the most fragile weapon in the game... It breaks very quickly in DST.

This is another reason to weaken the protection of all armor by 2 or even 4 times.

I have no idea what you're replying to with the second paragraph because you put my reply through google translate within your post for some reason.

For the first one, you're assuming people actually know that the Monkey Island exists, and that they actually understand how the spawning of stuff within the swamp works instead of just aimlessly wandering around a hostile environment to get some resources and then get the hell out of it. You're not thinking from the average player perspective.

For the 3rd one, I don't disagree that armor could be nerfed, but only if enemy damaged was lowered appropriately.

If armor only reduced dmg taken by 60% instead of 80%, but monsters dealt 50% of their current dmg, it could be an interesting change that would make getting hit without armor less punishing for sure, while still keeping the same overall damage output to armored characters. That could work out well enough.

[IAmAFurrz]

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

It's pretty tough to actually manage that and still react to what's happening on the screen.

a lot of bosses are just basic hit dodge hit dodge, practicing like 3 times is gonna be fine. 

[Hungry French]

22 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Я понятия не имею, на что вы отвечаете во втором абзаце, потому что вы почему-то перевели мой ответ через Google Translate.

В первом случае вы предполагаете, что люди действительно знают о существовании Острова обезьян и понимают, как происходит появление объектов в болоте, а не просто бесцельно бродят по враждебной среде в поисках ресурсов, а затем уносятся прочь. Вы не думаете с точки зрения обычного игрока.

Что касается третьего пункта, я не спорю с тем, что броню можно ослабить, но только в том случае, если урон от врагов будет соответствующим образом снижен.

Если бы броня снижала получаемый урон на 60 %, а не на 80 %, но при этом монстры наносили бы 50 % от своего текущего урона, это могло бы стать интересным изменением, которое сделало бы получение урона без брони менее болезненным, сохранив при этом общий урон, наносимый персонажам в броне. Это могло бы сработать.

In this... There's no point... Damage without armor is absolutely normal for me. Yes, some creatures have just huge damage for no reason. But seriously. Something stronger than grass armor is just broken against mobs. And something stronger than wooden armor against bosses. This is not to mention how much heal is literally everywhere in the game. You can safely survive even without armor because of the heal so much... 
And then there is Thulecite... He protects so much that you can just tank all the bosses without true damage... It doesn't matter if you're hit by Ancient Guardian or AFW if you're taking literally 7% hp damage... It's literally bee damage if you don't have armor...
I'm usually used to games where bosses deal damage like a Warbot minimum... And then the ability to have several armor plates in the inventory is added to the DST... And a bunch of heal... Tanking as a tactic is not cool.

[Edible Coal]

58 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

In this... There's no point... Damage without armor is absolutely normal for me. Yes, some creatures have just huge damage for no reason. But seriously. Something stronger than grass armor is just broken against mobs. And something stronger than wooden armor against bosses. This is not to mention how much heal is literally everywhere in the game. You can safely survive even without armor because of the heal so much... 
And then there is Thulecite... He protects so much that you can just tank all the bosses without true damage... It doesn't matter if you're hit by Ancient Guardian or AFW if you're taking literally 7% hp damage... It's literally bee damage if you don't have armor...
I'm usually used to games where bosses deal damage like a Warbot minimum... And then the ability to have several armor plates in the inventory is added to the DST... And a bunch of heal... Tanking as a tactic is not cool.

tanking use resources, they arnt free

[AliceShiki]

7 hours ago, Hungry French said:

And then there is Thulecite... He protects so much that you can just tank all the bosses without true damage... It doesn't matter if you're hit by Ancient Guardian or AFW if you're taking literally 7% hp damage... It's literally bee damage if you don't have armor...

Uhn... Thulecite Suit gives 90% damage reduction, not 93%.

Also, armor has limited durability and can break, and then if you don't have more armor in your inventory, you'll die pretty quickly... And if you do have more armor, then well, you prepared well, so you're being rewarded for the time you spent preparing.

7 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Tanking as a tactic is not cool.

So... You dislike the fact that people don't need to be good at learning boss attack patterns to kill them if they have enough resources?

... Why? I'm so confused at this idea. You don't want people to be able to use the simplest method available in a sandbox game to beat challenges? I really don't get the point of this complaint.

Even with armor being as strong as it is, you will often times need to still learn bosses' attack patterns to actually beat them anyways... Like, just try beating Dragonfly by holding F without using Walls nor Panflutes and see what ridiculous amount of resources you end up needing to do it.

Not to mention stuff like AFW with the heals and invulnerability... >.>

On the other hand, random mooks and weaker bosses being killable by holding F makes complete sense and just makes things more convenient to people. Armor is there to be used, and HP is a resource that is there to be used as well.

Also... You'd be surprised to see how often you can run out of Pierogis when playing with 3 people when 2 of the players aren't particularly good at kiting. Those resources can run out really fast.

[Hungry French]

6 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

tanking use resources, they arnt free

They are not free, but they are very cheap. And that doesn't change the fact that the bosses are scratching your back. Even in thulecite set, you can withstand 20 boss hits... And these are just 1 set...

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Uhn... Thulecite Suit gives 90% damage reduction, not 93%.

Wilson gets Wilson can withstand 15 hits in thulecite armor. This is a loss of 6.7% of his maximum hp for a hit equal to 100 damage.

 

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Also, armor has limited durability and can break, and then if you don't have more armor in your inventory, you'll die pretty quickly... And if you do have more armor, then well, you prepared well, so you're being rewarded for the time you spent preparing.

The armor is very durable and easy to craft. It's not a reward, it's just a bad balance. Bosses are not bosses if they have damage like a bee.

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Ун... Костюм Тулецита снижает урон на 90 %, а не на 93 %.

Кроме того, броня имеет ограниченный срок службы и может сломаться, и тогда, если у вас в инвентаре не будет другой брони, вы довольно быстро погибнете... А если у васесть другая броня, то что ж, вы хорошо подготовились и получаете награду за потраченное на подготовку время.

Итак... Вам не нравится, что людям не нужно хорошо разбираться в схемах атак боссов, чтобы их убить, если у них достаточно ресурсов?

... Почему? Меня эта идея приводит в замешательство. Выне хотите, чтобы люди могли использовать самый простой метод, доступный в игре-песочнице, для прохождения испытаний? Я действительноне понимаю, в чём суть этой жалобы.

Because being able to dance and not worry about getting a level worsens my gameplay.

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Даже несмотря на то, что броня очень прочная, вам всё равно придётся изучить схемы атак боссов, чтобы победить их... Например,просто попробуйте победить Стрекозу, удерживая клавишу F и не используя стены или флейты, и посмотрите, сколько ресурсов вам для этого понадобится.

Dragonfly is the Raid boss. there's no problem tanking her in the team. And in solo, it's not that much of a problem.

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Не говоря уже о таких вещах, как AFW с исцелением и неуязвимостью... >.>

That's just a lot of people tanking it because tanking does more damage, and it's very similar to AFW.

 

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

С другой стороны, возможность убивать случайных мобов и более слабых боссов, удерживая клавишу F, вполне логична и просто делает игру более удобной для людей. Броня нужна для того, чтобы её использовать, а здоровье — это ресурс, который тоже нужно использовать.

It doesn't have to be comfortable. I attack mobs and not raid bosses, not so that you can tank them, but to dodge them. Convenience has nothing to do with it.

1 hour ago, AliceShiki said:

Кроме того... Вы удивитесь, узнав, как часто у вас могут закончиться вареники, если вы играете втроём, а двое из вас не очень хорошо управляются с кайтом. Эти ресурсы могут закончиться очень быстро.

Yes, only if you have 2 trailers in your team. And perogies are not the only source of health in the game. Not to mention that many sources are useless simply because it is very easy to restore health.

Edited October 12, 2025 by Hungry French

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Wilson gets Wilson can withstand 15 hits in thulecite armor. This is a loss of 6.7% of his maximum hp for a hit equal to 100 damage.

I'm extremely confused about what this sentence is supposed to mean, but the Thulecite Suit reduces damage by 90%.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

The armor is very durable and easy to craft. It's not a reward, it's just a bad balance. Bosses are not bosses if they have damage like a bee.

Armors can break pretty fast, I have no idea what you're on about... And it's not bad balance, it's just balance you disagree with. The game is balanced around you always having armor on when fighting, that's just the gist of it.

And if you think bosses aren't scary because of log suits existing, then you just never played with people who run away from Treeguards and that you have to go and rescue yourself... Which you actually would usually need to kite, btw, because they break the armor a bit too fast to be comfortable to hold F against them.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Because being able to dance and not worry about getting a level worsens my gameplay.

I am also confused about what this sentence is supposed to mean, but other people being able to hold F should do nothing to hinder your experience playing the game.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Dragonfly is the Raid boss. there's no problem tanking her in the team. And in solo, it's not that much of a problem.

Tanking her as a team is indeed easy, but you're plain and simply lying by saying that it's not much of a problem to tank her solo without walls/Panflute. The amount of Marble Armors it consumes even as Wolfgang is absurd.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

It doesn't have to be comfortable. I attack mobs and not raid bosses, not so that you can tank them, but to dodge them. Convenience has nothing to do with it.

Why do you not want other people to be able to comfortably kill mooks in a sandbox game? I'm just confused here. If you wanna kite, you kite. If other people wanna hold F, let them hold F. It shouldn't really be your problem.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

And perogies are not the only source of health in the game.

Yeah, they're just the most efficient and easily available one. Hence why it's the one I mentioned.

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Not to mention that many sources are useless simply because it is very easy to restore health.

Other items being bad is their own problem. They could also be buffed, just like how stuff like the Breezy Vest could use a buff.

[Hungry French]

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I'm extremely confused about what this sentence is supposed to mean, but the Thulecite Suit reduces damage by 90%.

Yes, and that's too much. It should have a maximum protection of 80%. I'm not sure about 70% and 60% yet...

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Armors can break pretty fast, I have no idea what you're on about... And it's not bad balance, it's just balance you disagree with. The game is balanced around you always having armor on when fighting, that's just the gist of it.

And if you think bosses aren't scary because of log suits existing, then you just never played with people who run away from Treeguards and that you have to go and rescue yourself... Which you actually would usually need to kite, btw, because they break the armor a bit too fast to be comfortable to hold F against them.

I've seen players like this. These are the ones who haven't lived for more than 10 days.
Logsuit + Football what gives you at least 8 hits from bosses. That's a lot for a third-class armor.

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I am also confused about what this sentence is supposed to mean, but other people being able to hold F should do nothing to hinder your experience playing the game.

It's simple. Others can - I can - I don't like it.

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Tanking her as a team is indeed easy, but you're plain and simply lying by saying that it's not much of a problem to tank her solo without walls/Panflute. The amount of Marble Armors it consumes even as Wolfgang is absurd.

You say it like you only get marble from earthquakes in caves.
You really only need a little if you combine it with the Cookie Cutter hat.

3 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Why do you not want other people to be able to comfortably kill mooks in a sandbox game? I'm just confused here. If you wanna kite, you kite. If other people wanna hold F, let them hold F. It shouldn't really be your problem.

Yeah. Only this balance is not suitable for me.
I'm used to seeing in difficult games how a boss can kill me with a few hits. Or even 2 in Souls like.
About comfortable killing... Is it comfortable to kill raid bosses alone ? I doubt...

4 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Да, это самый эффективный и легкодоступный вариант. Поэтому я и упомянул его.

Nope. The most effective treatment is sleep. Outside of combat, of course.

4 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Other items being bad is their own problem. They could also be buffed, just like how stuff like the Breezy Vest could use a buff.

This is a Klei problem. Their winter clothing balance is ridiculous. The beloved bifalo hat shouldn't have 240 insulation... It should have a maximum of 120. It's a Mating Season item, not just the best winter hat... It's still being created on a scientific machine for some reason... Thermal Stone also has problems.

Edited October 13, 2025 by Hungry French

[AliceShiki]

40 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

You say it like you only get marble from earthquakes in caves.
You really only need a little if you combine it with the Cookie Cutter hat.

Yeah, like, 10 Marble Suits or so with Wolfgang. Only a little, definitely.

41 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Logsuit + Football what gives you at least 8 hits from bosses. That's a lot for a third-class armor.

8 hits using the best armor available for most players sounds like a pretty fair amount to me.

42 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Yeah. Only this balance is not suitable for me.
I'm used to seeing in difficult games how a boss can kill me with a few hits. Or even 2 in Souls like.
About comfortable killing... Is it comfortable to kill raid bosses alone ? I doubt...

Well... Then you aren't used to playing Sandbox games, I guess?

43 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Nope. The most effective treatment is sleep. Outside of combat, of course.

Oh yes... Because wasting time doing nothing when you could be doing something is suuuuper efficient... >.>

44 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

This is a Klei problem. Their winter clothing balance is ridiculous. The beloved bifalo hat shouldn't have 240 insulation... It should have a maximum of 120. It's a Mating Season item, not just the best winter hat... It's still being created on a scientific machine for some reason... Thermal Stone also has problems.

It's not Beefalo Hat that is the problem, the problem are Rabbit Earmuffs, Breeze Vest and other similar useless items. Beefalo Hat is fine. It's pretty hard to find enough Beefalos to make more than 2 Beefalo Hats for your first Winter, and that might end up wiping out some Beefalo hordes, which is not something you want.

You can only get Beefalo Hats easily while playing solo, otherwise someone will probably have to make do with Winter Hat and then have to try finding a Puffy Vest once Winter starts.

If I had to point to problematic items in terms of being too powerful, I'd point to Eyebrella, not Beefalo Hat... Though I can understand the complaint on Thermal Stones at least, even if I personally disagree with it.

[Hungry French]

15 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

8 hits using the best armor available for most players sounds like a pretty fair amount to me.

It doesn't seem right to me. It's an armor against mobs. Not against bosses.

15 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Well... Then you aren't used to playing Sandbox games, I guess?

DST is a very weak sandbox game. And it proudly makes its best part, survival, worse and worse...

15 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Oh yes... Because wasting time doing nothing when you could be doing something is suuuuper efficient... >.>

Sleeping is effective.

15 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

It's not Beefalo Hat that is the problem, the problem are Rabbit Earmuffs, Breeze Vest and other similar useless items. Beefalo Hat is fine. It's pretty hard to find enough Beefalos to make more than 2 Beefalo Hats for your first Winter, and that might end up wiping out some Beefalo hordes, which is not something you want.

No, it's not okay. It shouldn't be twice as strong as Winter Hat just because it doesn't give 1.3 sanity per minute.

15 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

You can only get Beefalo Hats easily while playing solo, otherwise someone will probably have to make do with Winter Hat and then have to try finding a Puffy Vest once Winter starts.

Even in DS, it wasn't a problem to create a Befallo hat. And there was about 3 times less beefalo then in DST.

15 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

If I had to point to problematic items in terms of being too powerful, I'd point to Eyebrella, not Beefalo Hat... Though I can understand the complaint on Thermal Stones at least, even if I personally disagree with it.

I think the problem is not the weak subjects, but the strong ones. The Beefalo Hat is the strongest clothing in winter. Which is why you don't lose your backpack.

[Hungry French]

17 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Yeah, like, 10 Marble Suits or so with Wolfgang. Only a little, definitely.

I don't even have 2 broken :/

 

 

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

No, it's not okay. It shouldn't be twice as strong as Winter Hat just because it doesn't give 1.3 sanity per minute.

Sounds like an argument to buff Winter Hat to me... Which isn't necessary IMO, but wouldn't be the worst thing either.

Though the stuff that need buffs are the ones that only give 60 insulation.

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

Even in DS, it wasn't a problem to create a Befallo hat. And there was about 3 times less beefalo then in DST.

If you happen to find big Beefalo herds it's not a problem to make 3+ Beefalo hats. If you only find small ones, then it's a struggle, especially if you don't want to wipe them out.

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

I think the problem is not the weak subjects, but the strong ones. The Beefalo Hat is the strongest clothing in winter. Which is why you don't lose your backpack.

As far as gear variety goes, the problem is absolutely the weak stuff. You don't really need to choose what gear you want to use when there is a bunch of garbage available, you just pick the usable stuff and that is that.

If the weak gear gave similar outputs to the strong gear while being easier to find, or focusing on different benefits, then it would be more interesting to make the decision.

53 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

I don't even have 2 broken :/

 

 

Perhaps if you read the posts you were replying to, you wouldn't make such bad faith arguments.

I said without Walls nor PanFlute... Technically speaking, you actually stunned her in the exact moment of Enraged Form instead of using Pan Flute from what I saw, which I dunno if it was deliberate or not (probably not, considering you have a Pan Flute in your inventory), but it's also not within the expectations of a Holding F fight... Not to mention you were actually moving around a bit for some reason, I'm not sure why, maybe to reduce damage from heat or something... Which is also not within the expectations of Holding F.

But yes, if you use the default cheese tactics for Dragonfly, you won't need to use much armor to hold F against it... Who'd have guessed? Why do you think the armor is a problem here when you're openly cheesing the boss? Wtf?

There is nothing wrong with cheesing the boss, for the record, I think it's actually great to have bosses that are easily cheesable in this game, and I wish more of those bosses were added. Fun bosses if you try engaging with their mechanics, but also super easy to cheese if you wish to cheese them is the perfect boss design for a sandbox game IMO.

... But the point was made specifically about a Holding F fight, not about a cheesed fight while holding F. I pretty specifically pointed out without Walls or Panflutes in my previous post.

22 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Tanking her as a team is indeed easy, but you're plain and simply lying by saying that it's not much of a problem to tank her solo without walls/Panflute. The amount of Marble Armors it consumes even as Wolfgang is absurd.

Right here. Your video is doing the exact opposite of that by bringing the walls and the pan flute with you.

Though to be fair, if you can actually time the stun thresholds to make them nullify the enraged phase entirely, that would actually be a really cool high skill play, and I would never deny someone's achievement from doing that on purpose... I just want to clarify that my point regarding how it consumes multiple marble armors actually assumed you were playing through the Enraged Phase, not stunning it out... Otherwise yes, it would considerably reduce how many marble armors it takes.

There was actually a video that someone posted a while back showcasing a fight against Dragonfly without Walls/Pan Flute which showcased the absurd amount of resources it takes... I sadly don't remember the thread it was in anymore though. I tried using search function, but it was to no avail... I remember actually being surprised by it, because I thought the damage from Dragonfly's stomp didn't go through armor, so I thought it wasn't realistic to try Holding F against the boss... Then someone made a joke video proving me wrong by bringing 10 billion resources showcasing that it was in fact actually doable, but the amount of resources needed was crazy.

[slendyproject]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

I don't even have 2 broken :/

 

 

Sorry for going off-topic, but how come DF has an indicator pointing to them? Is this a mod or an option in the game?

[Semind]

1 hour ago, slendyproject said:

Sorry for going off-topic, but how come DF has an indicator pointing to them? Is this a mod or an option in the game?

Part of the Insight mod, I believe.

[Hungry French]

 

13 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Что касается разнообразия снаряжения, то проблема заключается в его слабости. Вам не нужно выбирать, какое снаряжение использовать, когда в наличии куча хлама. Просто выберите то, что можно использовать, и всё.

Если бы слабая передача выдавала те же результаты, что и сильная, но при этом была бы более доступной или давала другие преимущества, то принять решение было бы интереснее.

It is easier to weaken the strongest items than the weakest ones.
And strengthening weak objects, especially hats. The balance of clothes on the body and head will not help.

13 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

На мой взгляд, это похоже на аргумент в пользу улучшения Зимней шапки... На мой взгляд, в этом нет необходимости, но и хуже от этого не станет.

Хотя улучшения требуют те вещи, которые дают всего 60 единиц изоляции.

60 is not enough so you want to make the clothes better. 240 is too much so you don't want to craft body clothes.

13 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I said without Walls nor PanFlute... Technically speaking, you actually stunned her in the exact moment of Enraged Form instead of using Pan Flute from what I saw, which I dunno if it was deliberate or not (probably not, considering you have a Pan Flute in your inventory), but it's also not within the expectations of a Holding F fight... Not to mention you were actually moving around a bit for some reason, I'm not sure why, maybe to reduce damage from heat or something... Which is also not within the expectations of Holding F.

I understand' That the walls are not fair. But why panflute.
DragonFly Fire was intentionally reworked like this' Whatever you can dodge it, don't use cheese damage taken animation. That's why she can be put to sleep and frozen and stunlocked and pelted with water balls and she calms down automatically when trying to spawn lavae or after the timer.
Reworked Dragon Fly looks like a mod boss that flies at you at the speed of sound, and its wings are small.

 

And the walls can be called "legal cheese" because it's a classic way of killing Dragonfly, which hasn't been fixed for 10 years. You could just as easily call killing DF unfair for any character except WES.

Not to mention the multiplayer, which involves cheese gameplay in a team, which is also cheese. So the game is called Cheese Together?

And the Dragonfly fight itself is no longer fair, because the boss's balance was adjusted for larger teams. This means that playing alone is no longer fair, because you can kill the boss without other players, which is cheese because you don't need have to find players to play with.

[Hungry French]

To put it bluntly, this is not cheese, but a deliberately bad, unbalanced, and bugged boss fight. There would be no problem with this if Klei had fixed it, but they didn't, even though it's a service game.

14 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

There is nothing wrong with cheesing the boss, for the record, I think it's actually great to have bosses that are easily cheesable in this game, and I wish more of those bosses were added. Fun bosses if you try engaging with their mechanics, but also super easy to cheese if you wish to cheese them is the perfect boss design for a sandbox game IMO.

No. Cheese is evil. Especially when it becomes the main tactic and is so easy to find.

The old DragonFly was as fair as possible and not bugged. No running speed - you can't dodge it. That's it. And she didn't have enough damage like all the DST bosses. And her HP for Wolfgang was a joke.

2750 HP seems small... But all the vanilla DS bosses had a special feature. They weren't very AFK, and the character attacked slower and couldn't cancel the attack animation. This is why vanilla HP bosses took the same amount of time to kill as DST bosses.

[AliceShiki]

On 10/14/2025 at 6:58 AM, Hungry French said:

No. Cheese is evil. Especially when it becomes the main tactic and is so easy to find.

Yeah, we'll just agree to disagree there. Cheese is not evil in the slightest. Cheese is just finding a way to trivialize or skip parts of the content you're supposed to be interacting with.

There is nothing evil about it, it's good to have cheeses in a sandbox game.

On 10/14/2025 at 6:27 AM, Hungry French said:

I understand' That the walls are not fair. But why panflute.

Because it skips the enraged phase entirely... And again, I wasn't saying it's a bad thing to skip the enraged phase, I just said that the boss would consume a lot more resources if you weren't actively trying to skip and trivialize certain mechanics of the boss.

I like Dragonfly because it's a really fun boss if you try fighting it fairly, and really easy boss if you choose to cheese it with walls and panflutes, and you can choose if you want to trivialize it for rewards or if you want to have a fun fight by actually engaging with the mechanics. That's good design IMO.

On 10/14/2025 at 6:58 AM, Hungry French said:

and bugged boss fight.

The bug related to Dragonfly spawn point being changed was already fixed. Dragonfly isn't really buggy.

If anything, I once saw someone arguing that the pathfinding of larvae may be a slightly buggy because they don't seem to consider the lava pools an obstacle, which makes their pathfinding not work properly, or something along those lines... Which well, is probably a bug, but also a very minor bug that doesn't really alter anything, since even if this was changed, the method to surround the pools with walls would still work anyways.

You may dislike the fight, sure, but it's not a buggy fight.

On 10/14/2025 at 6:27 AM, Hungry French said:

And the Dragonfly fight itself is no longer fair, because the boss's balance was adjusted for larger teams. This means that playing alone is no longer fair, because you can kill the boss without other players, which is cheese because you don't need have to find players to play with.

If you put some time into practicing it, you can still beat Dragonfly solo just fine without any cheeses. And then it becomes a pretty fun fight... If you don't wanna do that and just want the rewards though, the cheese is a very convenient option.

[cropo]

I always felt Thulecite club was more of a luxury item. You don't really make it for gainful use except for some extremely favorable situations where the club helps like on Toadstool. I guess I'd use it more if it's durability practically doubled but even then it's just such a waste of thulecite compared to all the other stuff you can make.

[Hungry French]

On 10/16/2025 at 11:02 PM, AliceShiki said:

Yeah, we'll just agree to disagree there. Cheese is not evil in the slightest. Cheese is just finding a way to trivialize or skip parts of the content you're supposed to be interacting with.

There is nothing evil about it, it's good to have cheeses in a sandbox game.

As a sandbox, DST is very weak. And cheese only spoils the main part of the game - survival and boss fights.

On 10/16/2025 at 11:02 PM, AliceShiki said:

Because it skips the enraged phase entirely... And again, I wasn't saying it's a bad thing to skip the enraged phase, I just said that the boss would consume a lot more resources if you weren't actively trying to skip and trivialize certain mechanics of the boss.

It can't even be called a phase... This is a temporary gain that may or may not be there... In general, it is a shame to call it a phase. This is the same regular Dragon Fly, but with a different skin and one non-creative additional attack. That's it

On 10/16/2025 at 11:02 PM, AliceShiki said:

I like Dragonfly because it's a really fun boss if you try fighting it fairly, and really easy boss if you choose to cheese it with walls and panflutes, and you can choose if you want to trivialize it for rewards or if you want to have a fun fight by actually engaging with the mechanics. That'хороший дизайн. ign IMO.

No, this is not an interesting boss...
yes, she has an interesting swipe attack. 
But lavae is just spam with very thick mobs...
and her fire form is the same as the usual one, but faster and with more damage. And you can't dodge it in a fair fight. 
It's no more interesting to fight with her than against Mosse, but for some reason he only has x2 hp, and she has x10.

On 10/16/2025 at 11:02 PM, AliceShiki said:

The bug related to Dragonfly spawn point being changed was already fixed. Dragonfly isn't really buggy.

If anything, I once saw someone arguing that the pathfinding of larvae may be a slightly buggy because they don't seem to consider the lava pools an obstacle, which makes their pathfinding not work properly, or something along those lines... Which well, is probably a bug, but also a very minor bug that doesn't really alter anything, since even if this was changed, the method to surround the pools with walls would still work anyways.

You may dislike the fight, sure, but it's not a buggy fight.

Lavae is the stupidest and most artificial opponent in the game... They ONLY target the characters... Because of this, there are very stupid situations when the larva ignores any creature that hits it... And if there is no player nearby, she will just stand AFK... This is the most artificial mob in the game... Not to mention that they ignore the walls...

On 10/16/2025 at 11:02 PM, AliceShiki said:

If you put some time into practicing it, you can still beat Dragonfly solo just fine without any cheeses. And then it becomes a pretty fun fight... If you don't wanna do that and just want the rewards though, the cheese is a very convenient option.

Fun? Well, not... Dragon Fly is just a Spider Queen with a fire form... Dragon Fly was fun in DS. Yes, Dragon Fly has become a little more interesting in DST, but it doesn't deserve x10 hp... Because it's still a primitive boss whose movset consists of 1 attack and spam with minions... And I don't care that the game has a name Together, because in 10 years Klei might not annoy single players with monotonous boss fights. With such interest, it would be possible to make all mobs and bosses in the game except for raid x10 hp...

The "DST professionals" of 20,000 hp Deerclops would be thrilled because it gives them a FEEL for THE BOSS, it would allow them to interact with seasonal mechanics and the mechanics of the night... Mmm.... Then let's give Catcoon 1500 hp to feel it... Although Catcoon is a really funny mob because the only thing he manages to do before he dies is hiss... For some reason, Buzzard in DST got x2 hp on the background of DS, but they didn't...

Although the problem with DS was not that the surrounding creatures were too soft, but that the character dealt too much damage... And Clay even planned to make a damage modifier to weaken all the weapons in the game...

Although DST bosses are intentionally made more passive than DS bosses. It's just that the players could approach the boss all together, and not literally play synchronously to give 2 hits to the boss... They also canceled the animation and increased the attack speed and giant stun's in 10 seconds for Dragon fly

Seriously. Is it fun for someone to stand afk for 10 seconds and beat a body called a boss? In Elden Ring, bosses can attack non-stop and perform 10-second combos that need to be dodged...

[AliceShiki]

19 hours ago, Hungry French said:

and her fire form is the same as the usual one, but faster and with more damage. And you can't dodge it in a fair fight. 

You can, it's just pretty hard, which is part of what makes the fight fun. You seem to be talking about something you never really tried to actively rollback worlds to practice against. If you had, you'd know that it is possible to dodge it, it just has a pretty strict timing.

I'm actually pretty bad at getting the timing right, for what it's worth. I've seen Youtube Videos of how to do it, but I couldn't replicate the strat, so I instead opted for tanking one hit and dodging the next one (due to positioning, it was easier to dodge a hit if you had been hit by the last one), then tried using Wigfrid's Shield to block the hit I was planning on tanking... But if you're good enough, you can dodge it all.

19 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Lavae is the stupidest and most artificial opponent in the game... They ONLY target the characters... Because of this, there are very stupid situations when the larva ignores any creature that hits it... And if there is no player nearby, she will just stand AFK... This is the most artificial mob in the game... Not to mention that they ignore the walls...

Those aren't bugs.

19 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Fun? Well, not... Dragon Fly is just a Spider Queen with a fire form...

They're very different fights, and I have no idea how you're even trying to compare them.

It was very fun to me, either way. But if you don't find it fun, then the cheese is there for you.