Why does Celestial Scion not despawn when he kills you?

[TheDankDwight]

Honestly it bothers me that because Scion doesn't despawn, your stuff that you brought into the arena gets stuck there. Honestly I accept the fact that it's a hard and unforgiving boss and that I'm bad but this is just stupid in my opinion. I had no idea that this would happen, because I tried to go in there blind and now I had to reroll because I have a 400+ day old world but playing on it anymore feels scummy. Maybe I'm just malding because I essentially lost a 400 day old world but I really think Scion should despawn and revert to Warbot if you die.

[Sinistrem]

Doesn't it work the same way as celestial champion with phases being essentially checkpoints and the boss staying to make it easier to kill so that you can eventually chip it to death after dying several times as opposed to Fuelweaver which you have to kill in one sitting or start from the beginning?

[Edible Coal]

1 hour ago, TheDankDwight said:

Honestly it bothers me that because Scion doesn't despawn, your stuff that you brought into the arena gets stuck there. Honestly I accept the fact that it's a hard and unforgiving boss and that I'm bad but this is just stupid in my opinion. I had no idea that this would happen, because I tried to go in there blind and now I had to reroll because I have a 400+ day old world but playing on it anymore feels scummy. Maybe I'm just malding because I essentially lost a 400 day old world but I really think Scion should despawn and revert to Warbot if you die.

quick tip, scion phrases are determine by his health, so as long as you dont attack over 800 dmg, it will only dash

[hyoton123]

22 minutes ago, Sinistrem said:

Doesn't it work the same way as celestial champion with phases being essentially checkpoints and the boss staying to make it easier to kill so that you can eventually chip it to death after dying several times as opposed to Fuelweaver which you have to kill in one sitting or start from the beginning?

It doesnt.

[Cruvimaster]

I believe all the chaos stems from reviving your character inside the arena and the boss attacking you before taking your items. In any case, it's perfectly fine to return to the fight outside the arena and calmly return for a rematch.



 

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I believe all the chaos stems from reviving your character inside the arena and the boss attacking you before taking your items. In any case, it's perfectly fine to return to the fight outside the arena and calmly return for a rematch.



 

Great idea!

[RubLog6]

It's not actually stuck stuck there. You can go in pick it up (scion aggro range is not that bad). But if you go in, you must kill it since you're trapped. 

Consider LGAs if you intend to do no rollback worlds. 1 wrong move you die. Good to have failsafes.

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, TheDankDwight said:

Honestly it bothers me that because Scion doesn't despawn, your stuff that you brought into the arena gets stuck there. Honestly I accept the fact that it's a hard and unforgiving boss and that I'm bad but this is just stupid in my opinion. I had no idea that this would happen, because I tried to go in there blind and now I had to reroll because I have a 400+ day old world but playing on it anymore feels scummy. Maybe I'm just malding because I essentially lost a 400 day old world but I really think Scion should despawn and revert to Warbot if you die.

Does this make it more forgiving?

[Edible Coal]

6 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Does this make it more forgiving?

it doesnt

 

[cybers2001]

7 hours ago, TheDankDwight said:

Honestly it bothers me that because Scion doesn't despawn, your stuff that you brought into the arena gets stuck there. Honestly I accept the fact that it's a hard and unforgiving boss and that I'm bad but this is just stupid in my opinion. I had no idea that this would happen, because I tried to go in there blind and now I had to reroll because I have a 400+ day old world but playing on it anymore feels scummy. Maybe I'm just malding because I essentially lost a 400 day old world but I really think Scion should despawn and revert to Warbot if you die.

Don't worry, the only thing that separates you from a "pro" gamer is that the pro gamer spammed the boss fight for +2 hours in a test world with rollbacks beforehand.

[TheDankDwight]

11 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I believe all the chaos stems from reviving your character inside the arena and the boss attacking you before taking your items. In any case, it's perfectly fine to return to the fight outside the arena and calmly return for a rematch.



 

With this video imagine that you had a Krampus sack in there with your stuff. You couldn't get that back until you kill the boss. That is my problem

6 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Does this make it more forgiving?

No. Well yes, in the sense that you can retrieve your stuff and prep again. This is really important in a late game world in my opinion.

Edited October 3, 2025 by TheDankDwight
Figured out how to actually reply to comments :)

[Cruvimaster]

6 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Don't worry, the only thing that separates you from a "pro" gamer is that the pro gamer spammed the boss fight for +2 hours in a test world with rollbacks beforehand.

Life is like this: training. Military personnel train before going into combat. Athletes train before going to competitions. Actors "train" several times before delivering the perfect scene in a film.

Difficult bosses in other games (Soulslike, Metroidvania, etc.): I need to go there and try several times until I learn the moveset. Difficult bosses in DST: Devs, I can't do it, nerf him for me, please.

[SilverSpoon]

33 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Difficult bosses in other games (Soulslike, Metroidvania, etc.): I need to go there and try several times until I learn the moveset. Difficult bosses in DST: Devs, I can't do it, nerf him for me, please.

Because other games hadn't gone "Difficult" like WARBOT's Heat-Seeking Missiles ignoring heated Thermal Stones in summer, or the Scion suddenly full heals mid-combat.

Edited October 3, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Hungry French]

11 hours ago, TheDankDwight said:

Честно говоря, меня беспокоит то, что из-за того, что Скайон не исчезает, ваши вещи, которые вы принесли на арену, остаются там. Честно говоря, я принимаю тот факт, что это сложный и беспощадный босс и что я плохой игрок, но, на мой взгляд, это просто глупо. Я понятия не имел, что так будет, потому что я пытался пройти его вслепую, а теперь мне пришлось начать заново, потому что мой мир существует уже более 400 дней, но играть в нём дальше — это просто отвратительно. Может быть, я просто злюсь, потому что потерял мир, которому было 400 дней, но я действительно считаю, что после смерти Scion должен исчезать и превращаться в Warbot.

The easy boss. Just fat and boring

Just now, Cruvimaster said:

Life is like this: training. Military personnel train before going into combat. Athletes train before going to competitions. Actors "train" several times before delivering the perfect scene in a film.

Difficult bosses in other games (Soulslike, Metroidvania, etc.): I need to go there and try several times until I learn the moveset. Difficult bosses in DST: Devs, I can't do it, nerf him for me, please.

Challenging bosses in other games : Wow, this boss is so fast and has so many attacks - I can't react to his attacks, I need to get better! 
A difficult boss in DST, damn, is this boss so fat that I'm tired of killing him? What day is it? Ouch. I missed 1 attack and now the whole floor is filled with a suspicious liquid resembling... It definitely resembles something and kills without a chance if there is no overfarm.

If you think about it, why should bosses disappear at all? How can I take down 90% of the hp of a fly and get out of a fight, after which a half-dead fly will restore absolutely all its hp.

[Cruvimaster]

26 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

A difficult boss in DST, damn, is this boss so fat that I'm tired of killing him? What day is it? 

Wilson defeats WARBOT + Scion in 7 minutes. Wolfgang should do it in 4 minutes? A day in DST is 8 minutes. You spend much more time chopping wood than fighting a boss.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

If you think about it, why should bosses disappear at all? How can I take down 90% of the hp of a fly and get out of a fight, after which a half-dead fly will restore absolutely all its hp.

 

 

I'm not in favor of the boss disappearing, but I think it's great that HP returns. Besides, the best bosses are the ones that regenerate health. The player can regenerate health infinitely, but the boss can't? DST was designed to be a difficult game (Joew even mentioned this before).

You bought a ticket to the wrong movie. If you want it easy, play Stardew Valley.

Edited October 3, 2025 by Cruvimaster

[Hungry French]

1 minute ago, Cruvimaster said:

Wilson defeats WARBOT + Scion in 7 minutes. Wolfgang should do it in 4 minutes? A day in DST is 8 minutes. You spend much more time chopping wood than fighting a boss.

I spend less time chopping wood, even though unlike others I don't use a poor Bearger. 
And 7 minutes is a very long time for a boss who only has 3 attacks and a short minute soundtrack.
It feels like. Oh. I need to MINE the boss, not KILL the boss with a challenge and a treat.
Chopping trees in vanilla is more fun.

4 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I'm not in favor of the boss disappearing, but I think it's great that HP returns. Besides, the best bosses are the ones that regenerate health. The player can regenerate health infinitely, but the boss can't? d to be a difficult game (Joew even mentioned this before).

You bought a ticket to the wrong movie. If you want it easy, play Stardew Valley.

Yes. That's just that the player does not restore the player immediately outside the battle, which is no longer fair. 
The best bosses in my opinion are in hamlet. Yes, they don't have much HP, but they're perfect bosses for Wes or if you don't use much stronger weapons than a spear.

And they are not such passive bosses and are well balanced under 1 on 1.

A difficult game? Well, yes it should be. But it can't. 
The only thing difficult in it is the hp of the bosses, which is so big that the bosses are not just bad for Wolfgang.
Healing system, armor system, food system, sanity system, clothing system. Even the crafting system, the taming is too easy.

A difficult game becomes when you use the weakest objects, things, etc. And then the game is really difficult.

What are the best bosses in DST? Antlion and Eye of Terror, I think. They're good solo bosses.

[Cruvimaster]

6 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

And 7 minutes is a very long time for a boss who only has 3 attacks and a short minute soundtrack.

That's your opinion. I disagree. 7 minutes in DST is absolutely nothing. Almost all of the time spent in the game is spent crafting resources to build a base. And specifically regarding bosses, much more time is spent preparing for the fight than actually fighting.
 

13 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

A difficult game? Well, yes it should be. But it can't.

Players with a lot of time in DST tend to think it's not difficult. Just look at this type of thread (a recurring one on the forum) and you'll see it's not easy.

 

 

[cybers2001]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Life is like this: training. Military personnel train before going into combat. Athletes train before going to competitions. Actors "train" several times before delivering the perfect scene in a film.

Difficult bosses in other games (Soulslike, Metroidvania, etc.): I need to go there and try several times until I learn the moveset. Difficult bosses in DST: Devs, I can't do it, nerf him for me, please.

Difficult bosses in other games: "Damn this runback is brutal, it takes me 15 min to get to get back to the boss."

Difficult bosses in DST: "Damn this runback is brutal, gotta regen a new world and spend 26 hours to reach this boss again."

[Terser]

5 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Difficult bosses in other games: "Damn this runback is brutal, it takes me 15 min to get to get back to the boss."

Difficult bosses in DST: "Damn this runback is brutal, gotta regen a new world and spend 26 hours to reach this boss again."

rollback button/life giving amulet/meat effigy/touch stone/telltale heart/twintailed heart/perennial altar:

Edited October 3, 2025 by Terser

[Hungry French]

55 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

That's your opinion. I disagree. 7 minutes in DST is absolutely nothing. Almost all of the time spent in the game is spent crafting resources to build a base. And specifically regarding bosses, much more time is spent preparing for the fight than actually fighting.

You won't spend a lot of time preparing if you take minimal equipment. There is no inventory completely in armor, food, etc.
And the fatter the bosses, the more preparation.

57 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Players with a lot of time in DST tend to think it's not difficult. Just look at this type of thread (a recurring one on the forum) and you'll see it's not easy.

DST and even DS are made so that new knowledge makes the game much easier. The beginning of the game is very difficult for a beginner until he learns that butterflies solve all health issues. 
And so it is in many aspects. Playing in complete ignorance is incredibly difficult, and with them... You or a mega-bazer who likes ease and accessibility. Or you're looking for a fashion for complexity. Well, some pass bosses with funny challenges.

[cybers2001]

1 minute ago, Terser said:

rollback button/life giving amulet/meat effigy/touch stone/telltale heart/twintailed heart/perennial altar:

Rollbacks are exploits.

Effigies have existed since vanilla DS, but it was never the point to lean into them as core gameplay mechanics. They are merely safeguards that you should never hope to have to use.

If a core mechanic of a boss is that you're going to die a lot, it's a poor design for a survival game.

[Hungry French]

7 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Difficult bosses in other games: "Damn this runback is brutal, it takes me 15 min to get to get back to the boss."

15 minutes are the runbacks in rouglike...

 

8 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Difficult bosses in DST: "Damn this runback is brutal, gotta regen a new world and spend 26 hours to reach this boss again."

Roll back makes a pu pu pu.

[SpookyXy]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

The best bosses in my opinion are in hamlet. Yes, they don't have much HP, but they're perfect bosses for Wes or if you don't use much stronger weapons than a spear.

And they are not such passive bosses and are well balanced under 1 on 1.

 

Those great boss fights like Queen Womant and Ancient Herald where you wear 2 pieces of armour and hold F until they're dead. They are perfect bosses for when you're using the worst character and worst weapon in the game instead of literally anything else for some reason.

[cybers2001]

1 minute ago, Hungry French said:

15 minutes are the runbacks in rouglike...

 

Roll back makes a pu pu pu.

Exactly my point, lol.

[Terser]

2 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Rollbacks are exploits.

Effigies have existed since vanilla DS, but it was never the point to lean into them as core gameplay mechanics. They are merely safeguards that you should never hope to have to use.

If a core mechanic of a boss is that you're going to die a lot, it's a poor design for a survival game.

can we not go for some semantics stuff with exploits, safeguards and whatever else? if you're struggling without them, just use them instead of complaining that they're an exploit or a safeguard, klei aren't going to revoke your access to the game for using them wrong

and if dying is supposedly poor design, then what do you want? a boss that you can't die on? a fight that you can't fail? what is the point of such a fight, or is it even a fight?