Recent Communication has been amazing

[BalkanCockroach]

22 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Play DS. And read the lines he says. He's at least not a bad guy and he loves his aunt.

1. He used to be a snake oil seller (snake oil seller which is a term for scammer. Scamming = immoral)

2. He's obsessed with science and harnessing real power. It's clear he will pursue it without questioning any moral or ethic code.

3. He threw Wx into the constant because they were fighting. You could say this is because Wx is not a human anymore and just an evil, soulless automaton but let me remind you this was when he had his empathy module attached.

[Hungry French]

49 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

1. Раньше он был торговцем чудодейственными снадобьями (торговцем чудодейственными снадобьями называют мошенников. Мошенничество = аморально)

2. Он одержим наукой и стремлением обрести настоящую власть. Очевидно, что он будет добиваться этого, не задумываясь о моральных и этических нормах.

3. Он бросил Wx в константу, потому что они дрались. Можно сказать, что это произошло потому, что Wx больше не человек, а просто злой, бездушный автомат, но позвольте напомнить, что это было, когда у него ещё был модуль эмпатии.

1. Applies to DS Wagstaff.
2. This applies only to DST.
3.This is ent DST.  There is no such connection in DS. He doesn't even call the WX his car when meeting him on the shadow throne...
Not everything in lore needs to be attributed to one line... A constant consists of many dimensions in which you can find variations of different creatures, characters, and even people... There are certain reasons why describing DST as a sequel and DS as a prequel is wrong. And there are certain reasons why gestalts and Alter do not exist in DS, and the fact that the full moon there works in such a way that it turns flowers into shadows...

Edited September 23, 2025 by Hungry French

[loopuleasa]

17 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

in ds you can see some quotes that show he wants to utilize things for war in his reality. feels pretty evil when you consider he would kill us if it meant he gets what he wants

War morality depends:
Are you the aggressor?

Are you defender?

This we don't know. Wagstaff doesn't seem like the character to go to war to conquer, only dragged into a war unwillingly, like most scientists.

The nature of violence is that it has an overriding effect, and if you want to survive you are forced to participate, or you choose nonexistence.

[Edible Coal]

wagstaff is not evil, but rather a very selfish person

[loopuleasa]

5 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

wagstaff is not evil, but rather a very selfish person

Externally seen as selfish, yes, but internally he's just obsessed with his goals and is myopic to anyone else that may come to harm (including harming himself).

[Edible Coal]

5 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

Externally seen as selfish, yes, but internally he's just obsessed with his goals and is myopic to anyone else that may come to harm (including harming himself).

selfish and stupid

[Radicaljoe]

10 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

wagstaff is not evil, but rather a very selfish person

Selfishness can lead to evil. Wagstaff isn't comedically evil like WX, but not twirling a moustache while cackling about the world's destruction doesn't mean you're not evil. This is the same guy that locks us on an island with HIS giant robot and has an anti-teleport field active on it. 
Is he a super villian? No. Is he evil in other ways? I believe so.

[Kehvran]

how a real quick appreciation post turned out to be a discussion between DST and DS, you only need to add these two ingredients in the middle of any equation 1) complaints about something related to DST and 2) hungry french, and BUM: DS is better than DST here is why

[Edible Coal]

7 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Selfishness can lead to evil. Wagstaff isn't comedically evil like WX, but not twirling a moustache while cackling about the world's destruction doesn't mean you're not evil. This is the same guy that locks us on an island with HIS giant robot and has an anti-teleport field active on it. 
Is he a super villian? No. Is he evil in other ways? I believe so.

personally i define the word "evil" as a desire to cause harm to other or partially enjoy seeing other suffer, wagstaff doesn't feel like that type of person, is just that his selfish action causes other harm but he didn't aim to do that 

[Radicaljoe]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

personally i define the word "evil" as a desire to cause harm to other or partially enjoy seeing other suffer, wagstaff doesn't feel like that type of person, is just that his selfish action causes other harm but he didn't aim to do that 

I supposed evil is a subjective term. I think evil is when someone lacks empathy for anything, truly no feelings to stop their impulsive thoughts. Which this lack of empathy also makes it easier to hurt people, but in this case Wagstaff isn't caring enough about the survivors' well-being to pull them out/ help them with Warbot containment.

Like, original Maxwell on the throne was evil. He lacked the empathy to care about stealing people from the real world and casting them into his hell world. But, he has been redeeming himself over time regaining the empathy he seemed to lack. I imagine not having ragtime play 24/7 is probably helping him with that rehabilitation. 

[Edible Coal]

53 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Like, original Maxwell on the throne was evil. He lacked the empathy to care about stealing people from the real world and casting them into his hell world. But, he has been redeeming himself over time regaining the empathy he seemed to lack. I imagine not having ragtime play 24/7 is probably helping him with that rehabilitation. 

tbh even for maxwell, i can hardly call him evil at all, he was well under the full power of the shadow side and was basically torture by the shadow to do their bidding, he being able to limit the capture people to only under 20 people and stay sane enough to not let the shadow fully control him to cause mass destruction is already the best to his effort.

[Radicaljoe]

5 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

tbh even for maxwell, i can hardly call him evil at all, he was well under the full power of the shadow side and was basically torture by the shadow to do their bidding, he being able to limit the capture people to only under 20 people and stay sane enough to not let the shadow fully control him to cause mass destruction is already the best to his effort.

Yeah, there's definitely some defense for Maxwell's actions being tortured and whatnot for who knows how long. Given all the knowledge we had before the DS Epilogue, it was pretty easy to say that Maxwell was 100% evil. Wagstaff may be the same, but as far as we know, Wagstaff is just doing all this for the hell of it and he's not as easy to defend.

[Milordo]

I was the first one that day to saw your post Variant and I was going to respond immediately, after Klei response of Ruins (made me tons of jumps of joy) but decided to complete before my recent post about Ruins and stuff.

I agree, it's just a little better. Not fantastic, since a lot more should be done, like telling us in short their decisions behind big changes and new big additions, instead of being forced by big pressure (coff coff wendy and walter skilltree coff coff) or gave us short quick response about problems we found during the beta, like fumaroles being lost, but overall still nice to see it ❤️ 

Dst had a hitch during 2023 and half 2024 but now is recovering hard.

And I'm sorry to be a "nancy" but

On 9/19/2025 at 10:17 PM, Lovens said:

It's cool that you got a reply on such an obscure part of the update such as this waterfall (which to me sounds like a very minor nitpick which should only be addressed when the rest of the game is functioning properly and players are satisfied with all the parts of the update). 

^^^^^ This is a very hard truth. Don't forget. Functionality > a small graphic/artstyle nitpick. (I didn't quote all lovens response for space, but yeah....Pearl is much bigger)

Let's be positive from this but don't lower our guard or be satisfied with distractions when parts of the house are on fire. Literally.

 

[SilverSpoon]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

I agree, it's just a little better. Not fantastic, since a lot more should be done, like telling us in short their decisions behind big changes and new big additions, instead of being forced by big pressure (coff coff wendy and walter skilltree coff coff) or gave us short quick response about problems we found during the beta, like fumaroles being lost, but overall still nice to see it ❤️ 

Dst had a hitch during 2023 and half 2024 but now is recovering hard.

Maybe it’s time it's okay I pour some cold water on here... I’m a hundred times more of a NANCY than this guy, so let me say this:

The previous “Hostile Takeover” update, they rushed it out for Klei Fest 2025 even though they didn’t have to last year, shipped it full of bugs and WIP content, and offered no explanation.
I'm bothered by this fact and some other things I deeply hate that I think are related to it, so I don't agree with the people here even one nanoangstrom.

Edited October 7, 2025 by SilverSpoon