DoD's second wave of updates and why there's still work to be done

[Milordo]

 

Exactly 1 year ago, in this precise period, Depths of Duplicity was released. Not the biggest patch ever, not the best patch ever, but an impactful one that left a mark on all of us, even for the few who weren't interested. 
An update...ABOUT CAVES. Precisely after 10 YEARS, the Caves have been updated for their first time since their release. Which is completely insane, considering the criticism this and another level have received in all these 10 YEARS.

Unfortunately the patch was rushed and released some of his content in a half-baked stage or left some errors. The Great Depths Worm is one of them. Now, now, now. I know what some of you may think (Klei included). Didn't GDW already had tons and tons of fixes? Yes, in fact he's not in an unfinished state. However the Great Depth Worm is 80% done.
What do I mean by this? 
Well since Depths of Duplicity was released, I dedicated a full three months of testing of allll the caves changes, by myself, in a run "Caves only". Then I played together as well with friends and tested these changes even more in groups (albeit less than solo). In conclusion I have found some big errors, that couldn't be found immediately during the beta branch, that undermine heavily the GDW and Caves experience overall. 

That's why 80%. That 20% makes a big difference. Since this is the SECOND UPDATE ever of Caves, and also Ruins surprisingly, after 10 YEARS, (btw I'm testing this new patch and I'm literally crying at how beautiful it is), it is better that Klei does not leave these big errors in the Caves, giving us a low level quality after the requests and criticism of these years and I beg them to look and fix them within this first part of the update or the second. 

This first part of mine will be focused only on GDW.  

 

 

1. Spawning

Okay, SO. This is the most important and crucial point about GDW and what brought me here to give constructive criticisim.
First, To be simply put =

The spawning system doesn't work in practice at the moment, compared to what it might look like on paper.

Why?

Let's put all the data on the table; Great Depth Worm can replace a depths worms wave. Great Depth Worm can't spawn before day 25. After day 25, each wave will have a 5% increase chance to spawn a Great Depth Worm till 50%. From then, each wave will be a literal coin toss, until Great Depth Worm spawns, resets at 0% and repeat. Now, on paper and theory this seems fine right? Let's see how this would look like in pratice =

(If my calculations and data are correct) These are the depth worms attacks. On the first row we have the worst case, the Maximum Next Attack, that is the maximum number of in-game days before the next wave arrives. On the second row we have the best case, the minimum number of in-game days before the next wave arrives attack. If we now take the worst case possible, where GDW spawns at 50% on Maximum Next Attack, it will spawns on Day 128.5. And what if you fail the coin toss? What if it doesn't spawn the next wave. And the next wave. And the next wave.... oh look! Day 145 - 150 he spawned! Do we see now the problem?

2 YEARS LATER. Yes Klei. Two years in game. And this perfectly lines up and explain why the community still finds it too rare to encounter and why only in my caves solo world I have encountered GDW only on day 49 and day 111, and never again! My world is at day 173.... While with friends, we encounter GDW only in the middle second spring. Second spring! ALMOST TWO YEARS!!!

This ruins everything about the boss. The sense of danger because it's too much rare, learning the boss because it's too much rare, confusion and anger because it appeared during a bad time and you could loose it (this happened to many people here on the forums). This ruins in particular, the very crucial core design of what you Klei have given to GDW = a slot machine. It is literally a slot machine in all design sense. A slot machine of all Caves and Ruins resources. If you kill four GDW, tecnically this is what you got:

This seems a very strong and very well earned prize for having defeated four time the GDW. But if this loot happens normally in 4-5 years in game....You know how much more resources one can farm in a normal run right?
If, in the VERY FIRST LEVEL of the game, we have: one normal giant boss coming at us on autumn, one normal giant boss coming at us on winter, multiple normal giant bosses in the world on spring that could be near your base and constant earthquakes created by one normal giant boss on summer + all these bosses have only unique drops.... then, objectively speaking, the GDW should be coming at us at least twice a year to make it worthwhile.

Some possible solutions:

• Option A) Better chances                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is the simplest way Klei could fix it. Just make, after day 25, GDW spawn chances will increment to 25% each wave till 100%, so one or two is/are guaranteed for sure in a year in game. Nothing else to be said.

 

• Option B) Number of worms killed.                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ok this might be strange as a condition, but hear me out. Klei confirmed GDW is a she. What if... they made her a mother too? GDW will not spawn the next wave, until you kill X depths worms. That way those who kill normal depths worms will be rewarded even more with a bigger one, bigger challenge and bigger prize, while those who prefer to avoid danger in the Caves, will leave depths worms be. A strategic way to play the game 👍 This idea is not mine, but of my community.

 

• Option C) Flare or Explosions! (Updated)                                                                                                                                                                                                                     This has been brought-up ad nauseman by the community, but it works! Let's leave everything as it is, but when you use a normal flare, or gunpowder, or slurtle slime in the caves (not hostile flare since you can't have glommer in the caves), you could have a chance to spawn the great depth worm due to the vibrations that bother her. (ADDED; Or maybe even new fun items to have a chance to spawn GDW?)

 

Second, after we pointed out the errors of <<how it spawns>>, we need to talk about of <<how it despawns>>.

See, when GDW doesn't detect any players, it will voluntarily run away in a direction and despawns. This seems fine and I get where Klei is coming from, until you play the game and understand HOW MUCH it ruins the experience too. In terms of a general scale of difficulty; easy, medium, difficult, GWD is still easy. He's stronger and more dangerous compared to Deerclops, Bearger, Moose/Goose and Antlion, but still easy. You can kill normally a GWD in about 2 minutes or less. However the difficulty of a normal boss, compared to super bosses/raid bosses like Dragonfly, doesn't stand on the boss itself, but on the ambience and situation it's in. If you fight Deerclops on a normal forest during winter is easy. If you fight Deerclops on certain biome of the Caves with constant darkness, on winter with freezing and rain, the sanity already dropping for the Caves itself and somehow some batilisk or spiders come at you to annoy you, surprisingly the fight against Deerclops becomes more difficult.

Now, the very few situations me and my friends had with GDW, were enormously frustating because A) we wanted to fight it!  B) we wanted to gamble the prize!  Since it's a very punishing boss (discussed later on point 2.) death was almost inevitable for me in certain encounters, not because of the consequences of my actions, but because it was raining, my sanity was low and fell below zero because of GDW and I returned from a Ruins expedition, leaving me already in a (very) weak state. I died, revived and ran immediately to the worm hoping it didn't despawned....he despawned.

If Deerclops kills me, I have a lot of time and strategy to revive, re-organize myself and come back later for revenge. You can't with GDW. This is bad, please fix it.

A possible solution it's a cut content of the worm itself. If GDW doesn't detect any player, it will hide in the ground like normal depths worms for 5 minutes or so and then despawns. 
Another is from @Bumber64 . If you haven't dealt with it, the GDW should keep showing up in the next wave, maintaining its health like the Eye of Terror.

 

 

2. Punishment

Straight to the point, GDW is maybe one of the most punishing boss in the entire saga. The weird and unique movement and mechanic, if you touch one of his thorns you get knocked back HARD and even stunlocked, if you get eaten you get demolished hard too. Like, just one simple mistake and your death may be certain. Now trial and error, doing mistakes, it's all normal and sacred. It's all fine.

What is NOT FINE, it's GDW eating all items in the game and CANCEL them immediately. I don't need to describe you how much this is bad right? 

As suggested by the community since 1 year ago, GDW should have an inventory, like splumonkeys, where all non-edible items eaten go to the inventory, while all edible items get removed, like pierogies, meatballs, meats, ecc.... and this linked with point 1. Spawning, gives a fair battle and trial and error for the player, where they can retrieve their items if they try, instead of the game flipping you off. 

 

--OPTIONAL--

Plus HP nerf. Yes. You heard me right. A slight simple HP nerf. Before some people could be alarmed by this because it could "make it easier" or the game in general, No. I even tested already myself! How's that! I already did all the testing work for you, and I have a strong case here. 

• From 5000 to 4000 for example.

This made the fighting completely balanced for both ends and didn't felt too long. If GDW is a very punishing boss, let him be a glass cannon boss. 

 

 

3. Fighting

Now. We know how to deal with GDW, right? Give him or bait him with items like food or simple resources. That's fine, right? Wrong.

The "digestion" mechanic, if we can call it that, is very crude in the version presented. For those who don't know -->

As I tested and fought the GWD more and more, I began to notice how this item strategy was...incomplete. As if something was missing. I've started to remember exactly what I said on October 12, 2024, and not only has it not changed, it's stronger than ever.

Again, in my caves-only solo world, when GDW first spawned I used him as a farming tool for blue mushtrees (very cool). I properly fought him only afterwards, and accidentally pulled him into: 4 blue mushrooms, 7 logs, 3 rots, and 2 lightbulbs. She swooped everything in one bite, having the same 03.28 animation. I... sighed, like, it genuinely hurt me seeing that.

More than a solution, I have a proposal. Klei, with your time during the patch, please, look and make some distinctions between quality and quantity of the items the great worms eat. It's a grief seeing this mechanic not blossom in something more polished and finished. I know it's a lot. I'm not asking to be very deep. Just something would be enough, because as it is there's nothing interesting to interact with.

 

4. Drops

This is the great depth worm loot. (Now Updated!)

• 

Why stop it here? If he is truly the "slot machine" of Caves AND Ruins, why not expanding it? Like this (Updated!) -->

• 

(The rabbit and the moleworm at the end is just a funny bit to imagine them being still alive inside GWD's stomach).

Of course each new item in the pool will have their weights and probabilities measured. This could make the GWD even more enticing for people, becoming an alternate way to gather, few, of some rare resources in the Caves and Ruins. Plus I specifically requested 1 year ago about slurper pelts being in the loot table since they're almost near mandrakes rarity in the world, and 1 character in the roaster use them to craft an item. 

Edited September 10, 2025 by Milordo
Updating

[Bumber64]

The encounter rate is dependent on settings. The default caps at 50%, but the higher frequency goes to 100%. They could change it so all chances eventually reach 100%, increasing at the present rate per wave.

The major thing is the despawning. If you haven't dealt with it, the GDW should keep showing up in the next wave, maintaining its health like the Eye of Terror.

Edited September 5, 2025 by Bumber64

[Swiyss]

I personally like the depths worm being random and rare. But that's really just a personal thing. I love the boss, but I don't think people should have a way to manipulate the spawning of it as well. It being random and rare and unpredictable is already perfect to get those normies off guard.

[Milordo]

29 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

The encounter rate is dependent on settings. The default caps at 50%, but the higher frequency goes to 100%. They could change it so all chances eventually reach 100%, increasing at the present rate per wave.

The major thing is the despawning. If you haven't dealt with it, the GDW should keep showing up in the next wave, maintaining its health like the Eye of Terror.

Oh, cool to know! I didn't know about the settings! 

Yup yup yup, spawning and despawning are in a bad condition. Btw I do like your idea! Never thought of it. Added to the post! 

23 minutes ago, astareus said:

I personally like the depths worm being random and rare. But that's really just a personal thing. I love the boss, but I don't think people should have a way to manipulate the spawning of it as well. It being random and rare and unpredictable is already perfect to get those normies off guard.

Ye ye, I get it! That's why I suggested three options for now. There is option A in case 

I love GDW!! ❤️ It's been on my top 5 boss list since last year. 

[woxd]

7 hours ago, Milordo said:

A possible solution it's a cut content of the worm itself. If GDW doesn't detect any player, it will hide in the ground like normal depths worms for 5 minutes or so and then despawns. 
Another is from @Bumber64 . If you haven't dealt with it, the GDW should keep showing up in the next wave, maintaining its health like the Eye of Terror.

Personally, i love this idea. Of the few times I've faced GDW, I was almost never prepared and had to escape. By doing this, I could escape, prepare better, and return to combat much more comfortably. Although it would be easier to use the life mechanics that the Eye of Terror uses.

[Milordo]

4 hours ago, woxd said:

Personally, i love this idea. Of the few times I've faced GDW, I was almost never prepared and had to escape. By doing this, I could escape, prepare better, and return to combat much more comfortably. Although it would be easier to use the life mechanics that the Eye of Terror uses.

Yeah! Both options are good in my book. The point stands on the design balance. Why Deerclops, Antlion, Treeguards, and what not give you a lot of room of errors, while GDW not? It's clearly an oversight of Klei.

[Milordo]

Updated 1. Spawning in the Option C) with explosions.

Added Boulderbough seeds to GDW loot table.

 

The last addition made me thinking. Klei can do two birds with a stone.
With him dropping the new seeds, the people who wanted a way to reproduce boulderbough trees will have it, while the people who were still not convinced of its loot now are more certain than ever.

In the hypothesis where Klei decide to give an official way to farm and reproduce the new trees, I will predict it will be very slow due to their incredible power. 
Therefore if Klei fixes all four GDW last main errors, together with boulderbough seeds in its loot, it will be still appetising for the dopamine of obtaining an early seed.

Even if Klei choose Option A, with the worst case scenario (S.P.S), you can have boulderbough seeds at day 57.5

[Milordo]

Boulderbough seeds added officially to the GDW's loot table! Yeeeee! 

On 9/8/2025 at 4:06 PM, Milordo said:

In the hypothesis where Klei decide to give an official way to farm and reproduce the new trees, I will predict it will be very slow due to their incredible power. 
Therefore if Klei fixes all four GDW last main errors, together with boulderbough seeds in its loot, it will be still appetising for the dopamine of obtaining an early seed.

Even if Klei choose Option A, with the worst case scenario (S.P.S), you can have boulderbough seeds at day 57.5

I predicted it. 

Edited 4. Drops to reflect the new status.

Updated again 1. Spawning in the Option C) since a lot of people like the idea of a possible new fun item that could have a chance to spawn GDW!

 

Btw I was curious about the second change of GDW's loot,

and it's interesting. It means less bones, rocks, flints and nitre but more for the other drops! And yeah! It's very noticeable! I redo the experiment of last year, with four great depths worms killed, and these are the results! 

Before (2024) -->

After -->

 

Very interesting! Very interesting! This is a choice that I didn't think about it, but if Klei wants to nerf the weight of common items, to relieve the "gambling" and obtaining more big drops like gems and thulecite, thus incentivizing even more (and let's be real it's 100% good loot), then I'm in! The only problem. 1. Spawn 2. Punishment and 3. Fighting must me fixed, otherwise this change will mean nothing.