Why Wagstaff kicking Pearl out of her island is actually a great thing.

[Swiyss]

At first I didn't understand exactly why the devs decided to do this. It goes against everything we did until this point by trying to help her. But I think I get it now.

Things are really too boring if they're predictable. Pearl being kicked out by an evil scientist is the least worst that could've happen, and it added some spice to the lore. We view it as the unfinished product, but if we analyze it like a book, this does make sense since Wagstaff is the big villain here. Not only that, but his intentions are not plainly evil as well, they have a reason, it's for science and progress, he's a psychopath.

Whether you like it or not, this new lore update that you can interact with in-game is actually a very great addition to the game. And it doesn't come out of nowhere as well. The constant is not all flowers and sunshine, it's also hopelessness and unfair. And I love it.

[Echsrick]

counter argumend:

the ocean is EMPTY and needed more isle

[gaymime]

3 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

counter argumend:

the ocean is EMPTY and needed more isle

counter; just add isle without pretence

[Ridley]

Funnily enough, my complaint that Pearl's berry bushes are targeted by Brightshades is irrelevant now that she became my neighbor. It is nice that I don't have to sail to her to visit anymore too.

[Empa505]

Yeah, the idea in theory and lorewise sounds awesome. But i dont know in practice atm atleast. The main problem i have with it is that it removed the only "normal" island to base in/visit.

In Moon quay you got to deal with monkey raids the second you step out of the island or by coming back. And in Lunar island you gotta deal with lunacy. Their not super hard but just more things to deal with just by going back to your base or getting out of it.

This sucks especially for me since i just started building my base at pearls. This was something new and diffrent from your usual mainland base that i have mainly done the last 2k hours. 

 

[Radicaljoe]

58 minutes ago, astareus said:

At first I didn't understand exactly why the devs decided to do this. It goes against everything we did until this point by trying to help her. But I think I get it now.

Things are really too boring if they're predictable. Pearl being kicked out by an evil scientist is the least worst that could've happen, and it added some spice to the lore. We view it as the unfinished product, but if we analyze it like a book, this does make sense since Wagstaff is the big villain here. Not only that, but his intentions are not plainly evil as well, they have a reason, it's for science and progress, he's a psychopath.

Whether you like it or not, this new lore update that you can interact with in-game is actually a very great addition to the game. And it doesn't come out of nowhere as well. The constant is not all flowers and sunshine, it's also hopelessness and unfair. And I love it.

It would be cool if klei gives an alternate option that is significantly more expensive but saves Pearl's island.
 

I had a whole rant about Pearl saying she'll go look for ck on this new island even after the divorce arc. However! apparently, within this last patch, they updated Pearl's dialogue to account for if you actually hand her the cracked pearl. Now she moves off the island for her own reasons because she's donw with ck and all the stuff he put her through. So no more need for the island because she's not waiting for him anymore.

 

So I'm happy for Pearl, she moved on for real. 

However, though I'm happy for Pearl, there's still the issue of klei made a really cool important location, completely uninhabitable. A person can only base in oasis or pigking so many times before the boredom sets in. Pearl's Island was a monumentously important place for the people that dared to actually enjoy ocean content (ocean enjoyers stay losing sadly) because it is the one singular safe space on the ocean (as long as you dont get bad RNG with moon quay 3 tiles away from Pearl) to base. 

This is also probably an issue of ocean being more empty than the fridges on pubs with prework-Wolfgang players, but still an issue regardless. That of the little ocean content we have, essentially the most important place on it is being turned into a Walmart parking lot.

Kinda got off track but yea, happy for Pearl, sad for literally anyone that dared for a second to try and build creatively in a cool spot.

[Evelo]

Truly an unpopular opinion of the ages. Kudos for the amazement you have delivered unto us. I couldn't disagree more.

[lowercase skye]

2 hours ago, Echsrick said:

the ocean is EMPTY and needed more isle

That wouldn't make the ocean less empty, it would just put more non-ocean areas on the map. Moon Quay is awesome but the real shining features of the ocean are stuff like clusters of sea weeds, waterlogged bayous, and salt shoals, where you interface with it entirely on a boat.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

unpopular opinion of the age

It seems that the developers of this game reason with this idea. And even though at first it seemed weird, I'm slowly understanding why, and moving the pieces together from back in the day when every lore drop seemed hopeless. It's cool the devs still troll everyone, even pearl. Ninjas.

[SilverSpoon]

If I were to just write "Bad bait ☆☆☆☆★" in this post, then it's not "it added some spice" or "not all flowers and sunshine, it's also hopelessness and unfair." 

The same goes for encouraging players to build and then destroying them.

Edited June 26, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Arcwell]

Genuinely cannot see how retroactive destruction of player's work without them having any way around it (apart from literally not engaging in the content) is ever justifiable. 

This is something that has made me increasingly frustrated at Klei for over a year now and has ultimately led to me not playing the game until these updates reach some kind of a conclusion. I frankly do not care if it is fitting to the character or makes for compelling lore or what have you. If it's detrimental to the player experience (which I really can't see how you'd argue it's anything but), then it is bad for the game.

[Swiyss]

4 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Genuinely cannot see how retroactive destruction of player's work without them having any way around it (apart from literally not engaging in the content) is ever justifiable. 

This is something that has made me increasingly frustrated at Klei for over a year now and has ultimately led to me not playing the game until these updates reach some kind of a conclusion. I frankly do not care if it is fitting to the character or makes for compelling lore or what have you. If it's detrimental to the player experience (which I really can't see how you'd argue it's anything but), then it is bad for the game.

I know it is detrimental to the player, but not having the ability to build in the mosaic biome is also something detrimental to some players. The only problem is that the game is not finished, so they're going to eventually kick someone's butt out of a land for their progression. And in my opinion, if this progression makes sense, then it's justifiable. Hammering your pearl base before engaging in the beta should not be that hard, and you can always build it again elsewhere, better than before.

It's a clear view that the game is not mainly supposed to be played like this, building literally every edge of the map. It's supposed to be a mix of jungle housing and concrete jungle.

But this is just my opinion. I honestly don't care the slightest if your pearl base is being destroyed by the beta, just don't build there from now on, you can always make another world, the game isn't finished.

But really, bringing this discussion to another note, I really really really think that Klei should add something similar to hamlet/shipwrecked, but specifically for together. This would probably put the focus more on new things rather than pissing players off because the new giant worm cave broke 17 fences on my "fully" decorated chinese cave base..

[Arcwell]

4 minutes ago, astareus said:

I know it is detrimental to the player, but not having the ability to build in the mosaic biome is also something detrimental to some players. The only problem is that the game is not finished, so they're going to eventually kick someone's butt out of a land for their progression. And in my opinion, if this progression makes sense, then it's justifiable. Hammering your pearl base before engaging in the beta should not be that hard, and you can always build it again elsewhere, better than before.

It's a clear view that the game is not mainly supposed to be played like this, building literally every edge of the map. It's supposed to be a mix of jungle housing and concrete jungle.

But this is just my opinion. I honestly don't care the slightest if your pearl base is being destroyed by the beta, just don't build there from now on, you can always make another world, the game isn't finished.

Mosaic is not retroactive.

And no, devs did not need to kick anyone out of anywhere for progression. They chose to. They could have simply generated additional islands as others have already said. 

The problem isn't that you can't build everywhere. That's obvious. It's that where you can build is at the whim of the developers to be changed without consent.

To be clear, I don't even build on Pearl's Island (and as I've said before, I stopped playing the game until the updates finish). It is the pattern of behavior these updates have been following that I take issue with.

[Milordo]

19 minutes ago, astareus said:

This would probably put the focus more on new things rather than pissing players off because the new giant worm cave broke 17 fences on my "fully" decorated chinese cave base..

Unrelated and related, thanks to me and others of the community the big great depth worm is now perfect than ever in terms of destruction and for a megabase playstyle (yes, better than deerclops and bearger). Also he's a new thing. The same new literal thing you're advocating from shipwrecked/hamlet. It's a new normal boss, something we didn't have since 2015 - Antlion (literally 10 years bruh....). Tecnically less because lord of the fruit flies....exist??? (Don't know why they choose that to be a normal boss or a boss in general, or why they didn't buff it to be more a boss out of it, it's pathetic...). To inflict more pain (in my heart especially), Caves, Ruins, Ocean and Lunar Island lack a big pool of bosses that needs to be filled.

I don't see why the community can't unite for a common point, like the GDW, and make the same types of changes for pearl and everybody win. For example @Radicaljoe idea's on a grinding option to save the island. You woudn't care if people can save and build in pearl island right?

[Swiyss]

43 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

without consent.

Consent? This isn't your property, nor the game is. Klei can even revoke your game if they want to, it's their game. Now I'm not saying that a build on Pearl's island is unimportant, but it doesn't justify them not being able to do what they want with the island. 

It would be a different story if the devs themselves advocated for you to build things in there, but they didn't do that.

And again, it makes sense that Wagstaff would do that, and it's cool and new that they decided to add this to the game. You shouldn't point your fingers to Klei or the developers, nor should ANYONE with this opinion. It's a fantasy video-game, you and everyone should join this fantasy and point fingers to the mad scientist.

And don't get me started on real work value, this isn't even an mmorpg or an online grinding game, it's even further from anything IRL.

My whole point is, the intention is for Wagstaff to ruin this friendship you created with this fantasy character, and it could have been even worse than simply shooshing her out to the moon quay island. And I discussed this back in other world destructive updates, I think the devs should have all support for implementing new challenges and additions to the game, even if they somehow touch player "property" or player works.

Thinking of it, it's even better now that we have more space to build an actual big garden and environment for Pearl. You can get more possibilities, be more creative, and do more. And if your complain gets any closer to "that place was unique", it's the only reason I can give why this wasn't a great decision. Still is a great implementation in my opinion regardless.

33 minutes ago, Milordo said:

You woudn't care if people can save and build in pearl island right?

Would be cool if we can "reclaim" the island, but that's for a future Klei, and it might take them 3 to 5 years to accomplish, who knows.

[Arcwell]

21 minutes ago, astareus said:

Consent? This isn't your property, nor the game is. Klei can even revoke your game if they want to, it's their game. Now I'm not saying that a build on Pearl's island is unimportant, but it doesn't justify them not being able to do what they want with the island. 

It would be a different story if the devs themselves advocated for you to build things in there, but they didn't do that.

And again, it makes sense that Wagstaff would do that, and it's cool and new that they decided to add this to the game. You shouldn't point your fingers to Klei or the developers, nor should ANYONE with this opinion. It's a fantasy video-game, you and everyone should join this fantasy and point fingers to the mad scientist.

And don't get me started on real work value, this isn't even an mmorpg or an online grinding game, it's even further from anything IRL.

My whole point is, the intention is for Wagstaff to ruin this friendship you created with this fantasy character, and it could have been even worse than simply shooshing her out to the moon quay island. And I discussed this back in other world destructive updates, I think the devs should have all support for implementing new challenges and additions to the game, even if they somehow touch player "property" or player works.

Ok.

[SilverSpoon]

23 hours ago, astareus said:

Consent? This isn't your property, nor the game is. Klei can even revoke your game if they want to, it's their game. Now I'm not saying that a build on Pearl's island is unimportant, but it doesn't justify them not being able to do what they want with the island. 

That’s literally the worst mindset for professional game creator. Games should be made for the players first, then for profit, and then for creators themselves.
If you want to know what a game prioritizes the creator's vision above all else, please try playing some of the obscure games on itch.io that almost no one else is playing. Updated.

23 hours ago, astareus said:

It would be a different story if the devs themselves advocated for you to build things in there, but they didn't do that.

Devs must have been advocating for player to plant flowers and berry bushes or to built Wooden Chair to progress through the Luna quest, and to build a Relic Chair to get the blueprint for the Sawhorse...

Edited June 27, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[gaymime]

22 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

That’s literally the worst mindset for professional game creator. Games should be made for the players first, then for profit, and then for creators themselves.

i will agree to this when you agree professional farmers should grow tomatoes for the bees first.

Edited June 27, 2025 by gaymime
the latter part has no purpose in this convo

[SilverSpoon]

21 hours ago, gaymime said:

i will agree to this when you agree professional farmers should grow tomatoes for the bees first. 

As a full-time game programmer and amateur game planner, who has seen many fail because their prioritized profit or creators themselves too much, and who has leaned that the hard way, I will never bent my theory about this, but if you try, please explain in more detail.

At the least, it seems to me that Klei is prioritizing the players. The removal of "Disease" is one example of that.

Edited June 27, 2025 by SilverSpoon
Reflected Edit. Thanks for your consideration.

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

As a full-time game programmer and amateur game planner, who has seen many fail because their prioritized profit or creators themselves too much, and who has leaned that the hard way, I will never bent my theory about this, but if you try, please explain in more detail.

At the least, it seems to me that Klei is prioritizing the players. The removal of "Disease" is one example of that.

Riot games goes for profit->themselves->players and the balance team and economist for the game has openly stated that. It has remained like this for 6+years, and they only go back on a thing when the players boycott the game or make a massive movement on twitter, yet the game has remained the most played online per day. So your logic literally doesn't work on one of the biggest companies out there.

Not to mention that gta6 from rockstar games has been planned to be charged by minute, and guess what, people will STILL play it regardless.

2 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

The removal of "Disease" is one example of that.

Disease was an amazing cool idea, it just needed some changes to not be too harsh on the player.

I disagreed with Klei removing disease before I even knew it was because players were complaining too much about it.

Edited June 26, 2025 by astareus

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, Arcwell said:

The problem isn't that you can't build everywhere. That's obvious. It's that where you can build is at the whim of the developers to be changed without consent.

Okay but the alternative is that that the devs can't use any existing land for content it's kinda a darned if you do darned if you don't scenario they could form a landmass everytime something major happens but that means every existing area currently is basically out of canon

[SilverSpoon]

48 minutes ago, astareus said:

Riot games goes for profit->themselves->players and the balance team and economist for the game has openly stated that. It has remained like this for 6+years, and they only go back on a thing when the players boycott the game or make a massive movement on twitter, yet the game has remained the most played online per day. So your logic literally doesn't work on one of the biggest companies out there.

Not to mention that gta6 from rockstar games has been planned to be charged by minute, and guess what, people will STILL play it regardless.

I know there are plenty of successful game companies that prioritize profits like EA, Blizzard, a bunch of mobile pay-to-win developers, and even Rockstar and Riot Games(OMG, are they now not only prioritizing profits but also themselves over the players?).

However, I’m sure no one think that’s how games "should" be. And if Klei were to follow that path now, it would collapse immediately.

Another thing. all of the companies mentioned became like that after growing into "on one of the biggest companies". None of them started out by putting profit above all else. And I think they actually still not so much prioritize profits first and that "title" that crosses that line had broke.

Edited June 26, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[oregu]

1 hour ago, astareus said:

Riot games goes for profit->themselves->players and the balance team and economist for the game has openly stated that. It has remained like this for 6+years, and they only go back on a thing when the players boycott the game or make a massive movement on twitter, yet the game has remained the most played online per day. So your logic literally doesn't work on one of the biggest companies out there.

Not to mention that gta6 from rockstar games has been planned to be charged by minute, and guess what, people will STILL play it regardless.

Disease was an amazing cool idea, it just needed some changes to not be too harsh on the player.

I disagreed with Klei removing disease before I even knew it was because players were complaining too much about it.

Disease was made to punish players for moving resources. Even if disease was curable you would have to get resources for the cure of it It, which may have lead to more uninteresting gameplay. There's no reason to why transplanting dug resources would lead to disease, it only seemed to punish players who know what they were doing. 

For me, you would have to change what the purpose of disease is fundamentally to add it back but it might be a good idea for post-rifts content. Why not? That seems to fit more the angle of what they're going for.

[Echsrick]

10 hours ago, lowercase skye said:

That wouldn't make the ocean less empty, it would just put more non-ocean areas on the map. Moon Quay is awesome but the real shining features of the ocean are stuff like clusters of sea weeds, waterlogged bayous, and salt shoals, where you interface with it entirely on a boat.

you have to use boat to get to moon island therefor an ocean contend

[SilverSpoon]

11 minutes ago, oregu said:

For me, you would have to change what the purpose of disease is fundamentally to add it back but it might be a good idea for post-rifts content. Why not? That seems to fit more the angle of what they're going for.

I suppose that it is Deadly Brightshade now. However I still feel more annoying than enjoyable, so before I open the Rift, I always bring all potentially Brightshaded plants underground.

Edited June 26, 2025 by SilverSpoon