Start betas earlier, but make them last longer

[Jakepeng99]

Would be more interesting.

[BezKa]

You mean "start betas before a lot of the content is done" or "delay the update so that beta can last longer"?

[Kacpert25]

I don't think a longer beta is a good idea after the last beta.

[_mylilsunshine_]

1 hour ago, Kacpert25 said:

I don't think a longer beta is a good idea after the last beta.

yeah the three-tree beta was absolutely draining. i myself got a lot of opportunities to make suggestions and see them bear fruits, but i would NAWT want to go back to a 6+ months beta

[WilsonHiggs]

1 hour ago, Kacpert25 said:

I don't think a longer beta is a good idea after the last beta.

Is what saved the update... And more time would have been good since a lot of things weren't changed

[JustAPineapple]

I have to admit, there were a lot of what I think are genuine improvements that were made over the course of the last beta, particularly with Walter whom imo benefitted the most from the extra time to bake and came out the otherside the best. Admittedly that's with a caveat, I haven't played wortox either pre or post skill tree and thus he also may or may not have benefitted, I have no clue.

But generally, I think the time was spent pretty okay all things considered.

[WilsonHiggs]

13 minutes ago, JustAPineapple said:

I have to admit, there were a lot of what I think are genuine improvements that were made over the course of the last beta, particularly with Walter whom imo benefitted the most from the extra time to bake and came out the otherside the best. Admittedly that's with a caveat, I haven't played wortox either pre or post skill tree and thus he may also have may or may not have benefitted, I have no clue.

But generally, I think the time was spent pretty okay all things considered.

Walter's tree become an example of what a skill tree should be

[Kacpert25]

43 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Is what saved the update... And more time would have been good since a lot of things weren't changed

True, but it doesn't change the fact that the length of this beta was overwhelming.

[Reiko24]

3 hours ago, BezKa said:

You mean "start betas before a lot of the content is done" or "delay the update so that beta can last longer"?

Probably “start betas before a lot of the content is done”.

it will allow players to give feedback at a much earlier stage in development, allowing for more drastic changes to appease the playerbase

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, BezKa said:

You mean "start betas before a lot of the content is done" or "delay the update so that beta can last longer"?

Start before content is done.

1 hour ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Walter's tree become an example of what a skill tree should be

Maybe. Though some things like Woby dashing felt like too much. Way too much power off spawn.

[WilsonHiggs]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Start before content is done.

Maybe. Though some things like Woby dashing felt like too much. Way too much power off spawn.

The dash is only useful for gaps and ruins sink holes. What is really game changing is how fast she runs with the sprint 

[Jakepeng99]

21 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

The dash is only useful for gaps and ruins sink holes. What is really game changing is how fast she runs with the sprint 

Yeah I think both are too op.

It feels bad to have that much power.

[DVGMedia]

Last beta was only long because of the Holiday. Can't really expect lots of work to be done during that. So I'm for longer betas

3 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

 

it will allow players to give feedback at a much earlier stage in development, allowing for more drastic changes to appease the playerbase

We had some consensus on what could be good on the last update however klei still went with stuff that just ended up causing a divide hitting a perk that could have been done in a more interesting manner. Even though there was good discussion of how to address the problem particularly with sisturn on the Wendy tree 

[YouKnowWho142]

would a good compromise be for them to do more teasers for upcoming content or discuss upcoming concepts for feedback before the beta? That way people can provide their feedback before the idea becomes more rigid and hard to change

I know it's something i've seen another game experiment with, it has let them completely rework ideas before they even released and saved a lot of trouble overall in the long run

[JustAPineapple]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

would a good compromise be for them to do more teasers for upcoming content or discuss upcoming concepts for feedback before the beta? That way people can provide their feedback before the idea becomes more rigid and hard to change

I know it's something i've seen another game experiment with, it has let them completely rework ideas before they even released and saved a lot of trouble overall in the long run

Rhymes with Klei streams doing this with a summarization posted to the forums would be Very Nice

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

would a good compromise be for them to do more teasers for upcoming content or discuss upcoming concepts for feedback before the beta? That way people can provide their feedback before the idea becomes more rigid and hard to change

I know it's something i've seen another game experiment with, it has let them completely rework ideas before they even released and saved a lot of trouble overall in the long run

Certainly this because it would save a lot of work that they waste on assets and designs and such because they put out a beta and it's mostly complete and we don't know if it's going to work or not or how much is going to really interact with the game. Since they can have an interesting idea but then it just doesn't really work or it's too strong

[Wawchik]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Yeah I think both are too op.

It feels bad to have that much power.

Regular dash isn't really useful and Woby isn't that great without affinities which require you know what, so I think maybe a little speed nerf could happen, but at least now Woby is actually worth using 

[AliceShiki]

13 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Last beta was only long because of the Holiday. Can't really expect lots of work to be done during that. So I'm for longer betas

We had some consensus on what could be good on the last update however klei still went with stuff that just ended up causing a divide hitting a perk that could have been done in a more interesting manner. Even though there was good discussion of how to address the problem particularly with sisturn on the Wendy tree 

I don't think a consensus existed for anything Wendy-related on that beta... >.>

[DVGMedia]

6 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I don't think a consensus existed for anything Wendy-related on that beta... >.>

There was during the Christmas break. Many people came up with good alternatives for the sisturn and the double health problem. And there was good discussions and adjustments. However only the most divisive was chosen by the devs.  

My suggestion was that the current version of the sisturn 3 becomes a potion skill since that effect  feels more like it should be a potion and they then convert sisturn into an Abby buff station that provides mini buffs based on what flowers were inside. 

I had a whole thing for it. And people liked the idea. 

[AliceShiki]

8 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

There was during the Christmas break. Many people came up with good alternatives for the sisturn and the double health problem. And there was good discussions and adjustments. However only the most divisive was chosen by the devs.  

My suggestion was that the current version of the sisturn 3 becomes a potion skill since that effect  feels more like it should be a potion and they then convert sisturn into an Abby buff station that provides mini buffs based on what flowers were inside. 

I had a whole thing for it. And people liked the idea. 

Some people liking your idea isn't a consensus. Every single idea had people that liked it and disliked it.

I remember the potion idea. There were a fair number of people who disliked it. Plenty of people didn't want any change to Sisturn III whatsoever and wanted it to remain in its unnerfed state, in fact.

Klei just chose the one they felt played better.

[Bumber64]

8 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

I had a whole thing for it. And people liked the idea. 

I pointed out issues with it that I don't think were ever addressed. (Regarding which elixirs it would block you from using.)

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Klei just chose the one they felt played better.

Thats the truth of the matter for sure.

actually no not really. The current version doesn't feel good .

 

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

I pointed out issues with it that I don't think were ever addressed. (Regarding which elixirs it would block you from using.)

Both do have their strengths and weaknesses.  I feel it being a super elixir is better because then can still have the healing interaction. But then it can give a risk reward thing of having a stronger Abby's a tanky Abby 

Plus well the sisturn buffs would provide some balance too. 

but even with some of the chinese that came and some going against it it seemed like a good middle ground. It provides something for everyone.  despite losing out on just 1 potential late game synergy.  And that synergy could have been still done similarly with sisturn upgrades instead of having strange player tag nonsense. And it would also be consistent cause then it wouldn't have been a playertag thing. It would have just been general defense against bosses which would have been better.

And yet the whole concept of some strange concept of game balance left a poor taste in alot of peoples mouths. Because we think something is going to be strong without ever giving it a try.
Which i feel should have been done instead of making these strange off patches of weakning healing.

[DegenerateFurry]

On 4/30/2025 at 4:46 AM, BezKa said:

You mean "start betas before a lot of the content is done" or "delay the update so that beta can last longer"?

Yes to both.

If the beta starts earlier, we get to give feedback on the direction Klei's taking whatever they're working on as well as provide free bug-testing. This'll result in the community getting more of what they want.

If the beta is longer, that gives Klei more time to polish things so we don't end up with skill trees that feel undercooked or content that's just left indefinitely unfinished like their plans to have multiple versions of the Frostjaw.

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Thats the truth of the matter for sure.

actually no not really. The current version doesn't feel good .

I want the original one which increased hp back. The boss tag is so lame. 

[SilverSpoon]

People who crossed the line of constructive discussion during the beta balance discussion should have been appropriate punished, or at least banned from the Beta Branch forum for a certain period of time. In any case, what  approach that used in this beta that "Rather than shutting down or hiding this bad behavior, we have allowed most conversations to take place with only limited intervention in order to allow new posters to provide their thoughts even when clearly against forum guidelines in an effort to avoid a perception of staff hiding or otherwise limiting criticism" is not good. In fact, it turned out to be a not good.

If people who have such personal emotions about certain players or characters that they can't have constructive discussion are allowed to participate in adjusting the game balance, it's inevitable that the game balance will be spoiled. And it's inevitable that people who are the target of hate or insults or abuse would become people who can't have constructive discussion.