Gas reservoir content cooling example

[bionic-mix]

Ok, I know this is basic stuff, but I am just failing at this completely and now its getting frustrating 

 

Internet at large says that gas reservoir exchanges heat with output tile and with the tile below it. I have used radiant gas pipes and a metal tile under output and there is a 10C pwater flowing through the radiat pipe segment inside metal box and the gas content stays stable at 30C. No heat gets exchanged. There is no vacuum anywhere, this is inside my hydra SPOM oxygen cavity. I tried different conductive materials for pipe and tile. They do cool down, but it has zero effect on the reservoir content. I know that eventually the cooler air will be pumped inside and replace the hot one, but I am now confused about hos the mechanics work and will need this for other uses too.

 

What am I doing wrong? Can someone give me an a functioning example of a gas reservoir content being cooled by pwater loop?
PS: Sorry for the washed out colors, its HDR-SDR screenshotting. 

 

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[bionic-mix]

No one? I dont need much, a functioning example would be easy. I even tried to reproduce this in a sandbox, it still does not exchange heat. 

[Tigin]

And after a few ticks

Using large packets (1000kg) with a low delta either takes quite a bit of time or probably just fails to exchange heat altogether.

[Charletrom]

You can use gas bridges to set up a continuous loop that passes through the metal tile. With proper bridge placement the reservoir would still be able to receive and dispense gas from the input and output lines respectively.

[asurendra]

Game counts reservoir content as bottle. So it uses debris exchange formula. First, it uses lowest conductivity, and its terrible for most gases. Second, while gas to cell exchange increased highly (25 times faster than it should be), debris to cell exchange, contrary, reduced in 12 times. So 1000kg of gas requires eternity to cool. Even hydrogen will be extra slow. Chlorine... Just dont

[bionic-mix]

Oh, ok, was not aware of the debris exchange formula, I assumed it was a classic tile exchange. So it does work, but its just horrible at it.

Seems like one more failed mechanics, why exchange heat at all if its massively impractical. 

I guess then its completely pointless for me to cool it at all. Just release the gas and cool before the reservoir. 

 

The bridge loop workaround seem like it would rob every second packet from the output

 

[asurendra]

46 minutes ago, bionic-mix said:

Seems like one more failed mechanics, why exchange heat at all if its massively impractical. 

 

Its just universal mechanic for any building content. For glass forge its extremely important. For liquid reservoir with magma inside - too.  Its not like KLEI planned something special for gas reservoir, they just hooked up universal rules, and its up to us how to use them...

[Charletrom]

1 hour ago, bionic-mix said:

Oh, ok, was not aware of the debris exchange formula, I assumed it was a classic tile exchange. So it does work, but its just horrible at it.

Seems like one more failed mechanics, why exchange heat at all if its massively impractical. 

I guess then its completely pointless for me to cool it at all. Just release the gas and cool before the reservoir. 

 

The bridge loop workaround seem like it would rob every second packet from the output

 

Not if you position the bridges properly. Plus you could use a radiant gas pipe segment inside the metal tile for rapid heat exchange.

I recommend playing around with bridges as there are some hidden mechanics that are very helpful to understand. Did you know that there are actually two different kinds of green output ports? The ones on bridges have some special properties. See below for some basics.

https://oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Bridge_Tricks

 

[MikasaTanikawa]

14 hours ago, Charletrom said:

https://oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Bridge_Tricks

Don't use abandoned and vandalized wiki.

https://oxygennotincluded.wiki.gg/wiki/Bridge_Tricks

[Gurgel]

Just to be sure, I put 100kg of 127C hydrogen above 5 tiles of sedimentary rock at 20C in vacuum in a thermium gas reservoir. The middle tile (but no other) heats up and the hydrogen cools. Just very, very slowly. 

My take why that is in there is that ONI has obvious fast, slower and dead slow mechanisms. That serves to make sure you cannot just fix everything you immediately see, but have to think ahead. I call that good game design for this type of game. 

[Simonova]

I would argue it's working as intended, from the standpoint that if you neglect the small amount of thermal exchange completely the results can range from negligible temperature gain/loss of the contents up to tiles melting in a sealed vacuum system after 3,000 cycles; I'm not against "slow burn" problems that are easy to overlook (I very recently had to crack open an active metal volcano tamer because I didn't notice the sweeper and conveyor loader were made of cobalt until they started taking damage).

[Prince Mandor]

Well, you try to cool 1'000'000g of gas with water through 3 steps (liquid to pipe, pipe to tile, tile to debris on tile) having 20°C difference. So at best case it will be 17°C difference at tile-to-debris step. It looks like it is oxygen inside of your reservoir, so thermal conductivity here will be 0.024 (lowest) x 6.25. So, in one tick (0.2 seconds) game will try to take 17*0.2*0.024*6.25=0.51DTU from oxygen in reservoir. Oxygen have heat capacity (SHC) 1.005 DTU/g°C, so game will try to lower oxygen temperature by ... well... 0.0000005°C

In reality even this transfer just doesn't happens because of rounding error. Even without exact numbers, let's take oxygen and 200K. It heats will be 1000000*200*1.005=201'000'000

Now you can get binary calculator ( here for example: https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html ) and enter 201000000.51 into it. You will see, game don't have enough precision to even keep so small difference. This number will be stored as 201'000'000 anyway, loosing this 0.51. So, no heat transfer happens here at all, due too small changes disappearing during computer rounding

To be more specific, problem here lies in tremendous amount of gas you are trying to cool (1 ton) with very minor temperature difference (20°C spread over three steps of heat transferring). Try to cool smaller amount of gas or by using lot colder liquid