Praise the most powerful Walter！

[Guille6785]

41 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Remember when this game was difficult even if you have the knowledge?

no, stop trying to gaslight people into thinking the game was once this brutal uncompromising experience (which never actually existed)

[Maxil20]

13 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

no, stop trying to gaslight people into thinking the game was once this brutal uncompromising experience (which never actually existed)

To add onto this, DST has always been a game that is heavily reliant on it’s lack of knowledge which can easily confuse and case significant struggles for a lot of players. However, once you get past that curve, the difficulty plateau is not high. That hasn’t really changed at the end of the day. If you know what to do in what specific situation and/or have consistent fallbacks, the game will become considerably easier.

The differences between me when I played ~2015-2017 DS and 2025 DST are not really that different from core fundamentals. The difference related to both me as a player getting considerably better and the fact that knowledge about this game and what to do is more abundant than ever.

[WilsonHiggs]

20 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

no, stop trying to gaslight people into thinking the game was once this brutal uncompromising experience (which never actually existed)

Sadly, i agree but neithet i think is good for the game to have characters or mechanics that make the player ignore the content

[YouKnowWho142]

The thing about Walter to me though is that, I’ve been playing with him a lot, and i haven’t had a single fight feel disengaging. In fact, I felt like the slingshot was wasteful in a few fights. Any fight that could be easily cheesed with slowdown rounds are also the same fights that I could do easily with a ham bat and a football helmet anyways, which would’ve been way cheaper and more efficient anyways. Any boss that didn’t apply to felt different, satisfying, unique, and engaging (bee queen was a highlight for me for once, I usually hate that boss). Sniping bosses is a cheese that exists for sure but it feels like a really inefficient cheese, it has a similar impression to me as just using gunpowder on a fight you don’t like which is a similar idea of gathering excessive amounts of resources to basically instawin any fight. If the concern is that you can play in a way that isn’t very exciting, that’s always been an issue with any character since you can always beat any boss instantly with enough grind

not to mention, Walter sniping bosses outside of aggro range obviously seems exploitative in nature and therefore isn’t representative of his playstyle as it isn’t how he is intended to be used

[Walrusst]

27 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

The thing about Walter to me though is that, I’ve been playing with him a lot, and i haven’t had a single fight feel disengaging. In fact, I felt like the slingshot was wasteful in a few fights. Any fight that could be easily cheesed with slowdown rounds are also the same fights that I could do easily with a ham bat and a football helmet anyways, which would’ve been way cheaper and more efficient anyways. Any boss that didn’t apply to felt different, satisfying, unique, and engaging (bee queen was a highlight for me for once, I usually hate that boss). Sniping bosses is a cheese that exists for sure but it feels like a really inefficient cheese, it has a similar impression to me as just using gunpowder on a fight you don’t like which is a similar idea of gathering excessive amounts of resources to basically instawin any fight. If the concern is that you can play in a way that isn’t very exciting, that’s always been an issue with any character since you can always beat any boss instantly with enough grind

not to mention, Walter sniping bosses outside of aggro range obviously seems exploitative in nature and therefore isn’t representative of his playstyle as it isn’t how he is intended to be used

This is walter we are talking we use our gunpowder for bullets now....
Slurtle domestication, NOW you are talking.

The three core walter cheeses that are genuinely efficient are like, the shadow pieces one, the ancient guardian one with shadow woby, and the fuelweaver one that uses panfluted small monsters to CC fuelweaver.

Which unfortunately is the entirety of major core bossfight endgame path, which is quite unfortunate but its not too concerning because you can just give the shadow pieces the shadow creatures ability to float on water, make the ancient guardians hop actually work to cross gaps, and having the fuel weaver trigger his healing if he can't reach the player but he is stuck unable to escape and congrats done the key efficient cheeses where you aren't wasting a season prepping for the boss are gone.

(+Some minor pathfinding bugs.)

[lowercase skye]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Remember when this game was difficult even if you have the knowledge?

I remember reading the wiki to find out about all seasonal threats and what to do in the caves in 2015 and then never struggling with survival a single other time for several years. I do not mean to come across rude saying this, but I think it may have been a problem with applying the knowledge you've learned, rather than the game remaining just as difficult when you know what you're supposed to be doing. It's not until more recent content arcs that there started to be challenges that relied on motor skills and proper reacting to things happening onscreen, most everything in the game back in the day was a matter of just having knowledge as to what was going to kill you 10 days from now and doing the preparation to make it not happen. I would honestly say the game is much harder now than it was in the past.

[Xu XiuHong]

Have my comments on this site been deleted?

All of Wendy's responses, good and bad, have been deleted. Shouldn't there be freedom of speech?

[YouKnowWho142]

38 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

The three core walter cheeses that are genuinely efficient are like, the shadow pieces one, the ancient guardian one with shadow woby, and the fuelweaver one that uses panfluted small monsters to CC fuelweaver.

Shadow pieces was always easy with speed though. Ancient guardian is an easy fight in general and there is no way using a slingshot against him isn’t excessive, and I have no idea what you’re talking about with that last one (not sarcasm, just genuinely confused)

[Xu XiuHong]

30 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Shadow pieces was always easy with speed though. Ancient guardian is an easy fight in general and there is no way using a slingshot against him isn’t excessive, and I have no idea what you’re talking about with that last one (not sarcasm, just genuinely confused)

I always see people use potato cup. What does it mean?

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

no, stop trying to gaslight people into thinking the game was once this brutal uncompromising experience (which never actually existed)

You still have to learn the fights, well some of them. you could always armor up and bulk heal up. Still can. But walter, and beefalo simplify this process of just face tank with no issues. That isn't gaslighting when it's the reality we live in. Crab King, Moonstorm, and Ancient Fuelweaver are the only exceptions that come to mind. Especially now that beefalo can be fed while riding which resets the buck timer. You can slap a saddle on a beefalo and never dismount for 99% of the run outside of a few specific examples.

At least you had to put some effort into becoming an unkillable death machine. Now you just have that when you make a saddle, or play as Walter (which is just easier now because of how much extra ammo he gets).

[Xu XiuHong]

2 minutes ago, Evelo said:

You can slap a saddle on a beefalo and never dismount for 99% of the run outside of a few specific examples.

There will be a lot of knockbacks and knockouts later in the game. It can be said that it is almost impossible to ride a bull in late combat, unless the player is very good at avoiding attacks

[YouKnowWho142]

9 minutes ago, Evelo said:

You still have to learn the fights, well some of them. you could always armor up and bulk heal up. Still can. But walter, and beefalo simplify this process of just face tank with no issues. That isn't gaslighting when it's the reality we live in. Crab King, Moonstorm, and Ancient Fuelweaver are the only exceptions that come to mind. Especially now that beefalo can be fed while riding which resets the buck timer. You can slap a saddle on a beefalo and never dismount for 99% of the run outside of a few specific examples.

At least you had to put some effort into becoming an unkillable death machine. Now you just have that when you make a saddle, or play as Walter (which is just easier now because of how much extra ammo he gets).

Have you played a full run of Walter? He’s far from instawin on a majority of bosses, having slowdown rounds doesn’t necessarily make him unstoppable and I found that out very quickly when I played him

[Xu XiuHong]

But walter can use his catapult, which has a very long attack range and high damage. This makes him one of the most easy character. In my opinion, both easy to use but less damage and hard to use but higher damage are ok. Easy to use and high damage? No, it's unfair.

And the shadow woby has a shift with almost no pre cast delay. Coupled with speed retarder ammunition can be unlimited kite. If you're going to get beat up, you do need more knowledge

[YouKnowWho142]

7 minutes ago, Xu XiuHong said:

But walter can use his catapult, which has a very long attack range and high damage. This makes him one of the most easy character. In my opinion, both easy to use but less damage and hard to use but higher damage are ok. Easy to use and high damage? No, it's unfair.

Again, you’d know it isn’t that simple if you fought a few bosses with him. His slingshot can be strong but it’s far from a free win, and Walter is punished arguably more for any other character for making critical mistakes. I would’ve thought the same way if I didn’t play him myself 

[_mylilsunshine_]

i feel like people keep forgetting this is a sandbox game first. the multiplayer, live-service, competitive concepts of meta, optimization, sweating, etc. are quite foreign. there is no meta in DST, unless you get into the competitive scene, like speedrunning.

there is nothing forcing you to do a certain thing, play a certain way, using certain items, characters, mechanics, cheeses, etc. if there was, everyone and their mothers would play wendy, maxwell, wigfrid, and wolfgang/woodie.

if someone tells you you're playing minecraft wrong because all you do is build and feed animals instead of fighting the ender dragon and various monsters, you would laugh at their face.

if you think something is too powerful and it trivializes the game, just.. don't use it. back when void walking and fleshy bulb cheese were meta, overpowered, i didn't use them and i played the game just fine, i had fun. any character can just tame a beefalo and it will trivialize the game (at least to an extent), but i don't use beefalo, i didn't use beefalo with pre-tree walter, and i played the game just fine. i had fun.

i don't mean using hambat and log suit when you have access to post-rift gear. i mean if you think something is too powerful, just don't use it, think of it as a challenge that you impose on yourself, and see how the game can change.

i was inspired to not use any slow effect when playing walter, and i had the most fun i've ever had in my 1k hours. the game was harder, sure, but i still had fun.

i don't even animation cancel attack even though it's the best way to maximize damage. can i still kill bosses? i sure can. can i still have fun? i sure can. am i a loser for not playing the meta? what do you think?

[Balter]

What in the sigma is with this L-ratio method of playing?

If I was the CEO of Don't Starve together I'd fix all of these exploits.

Flying mobs like dragonfly should not be blocked by beefalos & CC's attacks should be able to destroy planks AND the shadows should be able to cross land and sea.

 

[Evelo]

20 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Have you played a full run of Walter? He’s far from instawin on a majority of bosses, having slowdown rounds doesn’t necessarily make him unstoppable and I found that out very quickly when I played him

Well not post AFW but post CC, yeah walter feels pretty damn unstoppable. Haven't done AFW, or any of the Caves Rift stuff. Neither have I done Toadstool, but that fight is more about chopping the mushtrees than anything else. Every other fight though is absurdly one sided. Sure you have to kite but not that big of a deal I think given you have a perma woby at your side.

[Walrusst]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Shadow pieces was always easy with speed though. Ancient guardian is an easy fight in general and there is no way using a slingshot against him isn’t excessive, and I have no idea what you’re talking about with that last one (not sarcasm, just genuinely confused)

if you use shadow woby to teleport into the spikes at the arena and block his de-aggro path with mobs you repeatedly pan flute (Like moleworms, and the like) he can't actually change phase and you can kill him with a third of a pan flute just sitting in his arena entrance.

[YouKnowWho142]

1 minute ago, Walrusst said:

if you use shadow woby to teleport into the spikes at the arena and block his de-aggro path with mobs you repeatedly pan flute (Like moleworms, and the like) he can't actually change phase and you can kill him with a third of a pan flute just sitting in his arena entrance.

That seems like a really clear exploit that they have tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to patch from the game. I personally do not believe that game breaking exploits belong in any discussion of balance, not just in dst but in any game

[Walrusst]

6 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

That seems like a really clear exploit that they have tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to patch from the game. I personally do not believe that game breaking exploits belong in any discussion of balance, not just in dst but in any game

I mean I'm in favor of leaving walter alone and fixing the issues with enemies being unable to cope sometimes instead, since I like current walter a lot.

I just found it funny that there was an entire major speedrun path that he broke every step of the way to executing, but those were the only low prepwork ways I saw he beat bosses that people don't universally cheese already.


Since like, you aren't dropping 6 stacks of angry bees on crab king?

[Evelo]

Just now, Walrusst said:

I mean I'm in favor of leaving walter alone and fixing the issues with enemies being unable to cope sometimes instead, since I like current walter a lot.

I agree with this. Power creep is fine in the game, so long as the enemies also become more powerful to compensate. Right now, to me at least, it doesn't feel like it.

[YouKnowWho142]

2 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

I mean I'm in favor of leaving walter alone and fixing the issues with enemies being unable to cope sometimes instead, since I like current walter a lot.

I just found it funny that there was an entire major speedrun path that he broke every step of the way to executing, but those were the only low prepwork ways I saw he beat bosses that people don't universally cheese already.


Since like, you aren't dropping 6 stacks of angry bees on crab king?

 

1 minute ago, Evelo said:

I agree with this. Power creep is fine in the game, so long as the enemies also become more powerful to compensate. Right now, to me at least, it doesn't feel like it.

Valid. It’s part of why I’m really hoping older mobs and bosses are really prioritized after from beyond, I really like the direction every character is being taken and I love the new boss design philosophy but it doesn’t feel like the rest of the game outside of those is fully ready for it yet

[Walrusst]

In my case you don't really need to buff them that much, just make their short term memory a bit better and fix a few of the worlds smallest terrain quirks.

(Since like, most elaborate farms can be replicated without obscure terrain jank anyhow by just being careful with how you mix creature types. If the meat eating creatures lose in the farm odds are you are keeping almost 100% of the drops.)

[Crimson Hollow]

5 hours ago, Xu XiuHong said:

Have my comments on this site been deleted?

All of Wendy's responses, good and bad, have been deleted. Shouldn't there be freedom of speech?

they didn't delete your comment on the SITE, they deleted it in this THREAD, because the thread is about Walter, not Wendy.

I remember your idea of improving the mobility of Abby by dealing with the casting animation. It is actually a brilliant idea and I suggest posting a separate thread for that.

3 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

i feel like people keep forgetting this is a sandbox game first. the multiplayer, live-service, competitive concepts of meta, optimization, sweating, etc. are quite foreign. there is no meta in DST, unless you get into the competitive scene, like speedrunning.

there is nothing forcing you to do a certain thing, play a certain way, using certain items, characters, mechanics, cheeses, etc. if there was, everyone and their mothers would play wendy, maxwell, wigfrid, and wolfgang/woodie.

if someone tells you you're playing minecraft wrong because all you do is build and feed animals instead of fighting the ender dragon and various monsters, you would laugh at their face.

if you think something is too powerful and it trivializes the game, just.. don't use it. back when void walking and fleshy bulb cheese were meta, overpowered, i didn't use them and i played the game just fine, i had fun. any character can just tame a beefalo and it will trivialize the game (at least to an extent), but i don't use beefalo, i didn't use beefalo with pre-tree walter, and i played the game just fine. i had fun.

i don't mean using hambat and log suit when you have access to post-rift gear. i mean if you think something is too powerful, just don't use it, think of it as a challenge that you impose on yourself, and see how the game can change.

i was inspired to not use any slow effect when playing walter, and i had the most fun i've ever had in my 1k hours. the game was harder, sure, but i still had fun.

i don't even animation cancel attack even though it's the best way to maximize damage. can i still kill bosses? i sure can. can i still have fun? i sure can. am i a loser for not playing the meta? what do you think?

So much for this. This is a sandbox, no need to be anti fun just because "everyone should learn the same thing and have the same experience"

[Masked Koopa]

15 hours ago, Evelo said:

Remember when this game was difficult even if you have the knowledge?

no